Sony to expand 35mm large format NXCAM lineup

Erik Phairas · November 18th, 2010, 11:22 PM

Well the cheaper the better. If it makes video anywhere near the F3, things will never be the same. Besides minor updates where could they go from here? They could do 4k but that would kill what's so special about this chip, the incredible low light and dynamic range.

Bah who cares, just give me one.

Oh and you're welcome Glen. I included that picture of the back for that very reason.

Brian Drysdale · November 19th, 2010, 02:32 AM

I gather the new camera isn't totally finalised and Sony has done a bit of a RED by showing prototypes/images, which may or may not be representative of the final camera.

I'm qualifying this because Ford introduced the Sierra as a concept car and everyone said that Ford wouldn't manufacture a car like that, but sure enough the following year it came out.
Ford Sierra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

David Heath · November 19th, 2010, 06:11 AM

Well - the time from announcement from promised launch is probably LESS than the AF100 is going to be. It would also seem to be quite logical to announce it at the same time as the F3, which itself was announced only a few months before launch.

Glen Vandermolen · November 19th, 2010, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu Holmes

The US$8000 figure will be high IMO. That figure was derived by a previous poster applying the EUro/USD spot FX-rate to the apparent stated price of Eur6000. These products are ALWAYS much less expensive in USA, than Europe, so my guess is that the US$price MSRP will be around US$6000 and street price.... probably very close the Pana AF100, and maybe actually less. Just my view on that. Depends on final spec of course, and if it comes with a lens.
.

That poster was me, sorry. I am ignorant of the international exchange rates. It was a guess, hopefully a wrong one. I prefer it be in the $4,000 - 6,000 range.

Brian Drysdale · November 19th, 2010, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Heath

Well - the time from announcement from promised launch is probably LESS than the AF100 is going to be. It would also seem to be quite logical to announce it at the same time as the F3, which itself was announced only a few months before launch.

That's why I qualified it, since I read that they seem to be still working on aspects of it. These could be enabled features or perhaps the external design. Although, I imagine the latter tends to lock into the market's mind more than internal features.

Charlie Webster · November 19th, 2010, 12:32 PM

What strikes me is the whole modular form factor, which does remind me of the reds. The emount ofcourse means it can use any lens ever made since 1945 right out of the box, since the adapters are already available.

I was playing last night with my new/old soligar 135mm f/2 on the vg10. To my surprise it was usable shot off a plain 501 head. It's really a sweet piece of glass for around 150. Another great low light deal is the Korean 85mm 1.4, which by all accounts is very sharp, and 240 new.

One would hope for a e-mount wide zoom of current nikon quality and speed someday. A lens like that in the 2-3k range would have a market waiting. Third party lens makers have got to eyeing the whole nex market.

Erik Phairas · November 19th, 2010, 08:07 PM

Modular is fine but this thing looks like a brick. Looks more like a big DSLR than a video camera.

I've been thinking about it and I sure am going to miss the EX work flow and just all the hardware and so forth. XDcam EX is so easy to edit and looks so nice. AVCHD is such a pain, the high bitrate stuff even more so, to the point of it being stupid hard. At AVC 24mbps I would probably have to transcode everything into something else before dropping it into a timeline.

Brian Drysdale · November 20th, 2010, 06:51 AM

The modular approach is more what you'd expect for the F3 (which does look rather pro-consumer), rather than the NXCAM model.

BTW It's amazing how large the F3 looks with a 35mm motion picture zoom lens & matte box fitted.

Charlie Webster · November 20th, 2010, 11:08 AM

All my experience is with the venerable pd170 and vx2k. I've been really surprised that tapeless prosumer cams- the good ones- all seem just as heavy or heavier.

Does anyone know how much this one weighs?

I finally bit the bullet and bought a vg10, which is wonderfully light. As most know it has a number of very silly limitations.

It is a flat out scandal that the Sony promo shows indie wannabe wandering around Bali with a tripod, while in fact vg10 tripod mount is ridiculous.

There is such an obvious niche for something between this 6k model and vg10. All they need is a better build and some more controls with the vg10-- well also moire filtering-- and it would be an instant star.

As far as the avhcd work flow, it seems no more pain than what it takes now to properly downsize for good DVD quality from the various hd codecs--- you can spend days reading those threads.

Lawrence Bansbach · November 20th, 2010, 02:08 PM

Seems to me that for less than $2k, the VG10 could have had a better OLPF, 24p (Canon has this on pretty much all of its AVCHD models), better controls, and 10-bit HDMI out (how much does 10- vs. 8-bit really add the cost of manufacture -- a few bucks?). XLRs are nice, but not really necessary -- if desired, they can be added on (and are, in fact, and add-on module for the 2/3-inch Scarlet).

Panasonic hobbled the AF100 with 8-bit HD-SDI/HDMI. Sony's hobbling their models with, in my opinion (obviously), excessively high price points. I really hope that Canon steps up to the challenge.

Glen Vandermolen · November 20th, 2010, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawrence Bansbach

Seems to me that for less than $2k, the VG10 could have had a better OLPF, 24p (Canon has this on pretty much all of its AVCHD models), better controls, and 10-bit HDMI out (how much does 10- vs. 8-bit really add the cost of manufacture -- a few bucks?). XLRs are nice, but not really necessary -- if desired, they can be added on (and are, in fact, and add-on module for the 2/3-inch Scarlet).

Panasonic hobbled the AF100 with 8-bit HD-SDI/HDMI. Sony's hobbling their models with, in my opinion (obviously), excessively high price points. I really hope that Canon steps up to the challenge.

I consider XLRs very necessary on a professional video camera. Regardless of the sensor size, these are still video cameras. I want to plug in my mics without any attached gizmos.
I suspect10-bit over 8-bit is not just "a few bucks" to manufacture. Not sure why, but only the higher end cameras have this feature.
The VG-10 is marketed as a consumer cam. It still has the aliasing and moire issues that HD-DSLRs suffer from. The NXCAM shouldn't have these problems. But, you gotta pay for the upgrade. So far, this new cam sound pretty good.

David Heath · November 20th, 2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawrence Bansbach

Seems to me that for less than $2k, the VG10 could have had a better OLPF, ...........

If it had a better (for video) OLPF, it would seriously compromise any ability to take still photos. With current technology, manufacturers don't have any realistic option - either compromise the still ability, or accept a high level of aliasing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawrence Bansbach

and 10-bit HDMI out (how much does 10- vs. 8-bit really add the cost of manufacture -- a few bucks? ...........

It's not the giving of a 10 bit output that's the problem - rather whether or not it's worth it. If the camera noise threshold is above a certain level, 10 bit is pointless - all it's doing is encoding the noise with greater precision. Unfortunately, "10 bit recording" has got locked onto as a good marketing buzzword, whether it's worth it or not. The F3 may be one of the few cameras below $20,000 where 10 bit (and S-log etc) really does make a big difference.

It's not the 10 bit recording you're paying for - it's a camera with the front end specs to make 10 bit worth the effort.

Erik Phairas · November 20th, 2010, 06:04 PM

Wow the red users are up in arms over sony's two new cameras. Bugs me they are so convinced a 1080p camera is not relevant these days. I feel the same thing about a 4k cameras. Hell I watch 95% of my movies at the Drive In and that is barely VHS quality.. ha ha.

Brian Drysdale · November 21st, 2010, 02:34 AM

The 1080p market is much larger than 4k and that won't change for many years, especially when the world is in an economic recession.

The current push is 3D, rather than more resolution, which is great to have at acquisition, but there's a lot of "good enough" by producers (which has generally always been the case, that's why DIs are mostly 2k).

Bob Willis · November 21st, 2010, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik Phairas

Wow the red users are up in arms over sony's two new cameras. Bugs me they are so convinced a 1080p camera is not relevant these days. I feel the same thing about a 4k cameras. Hell I watch 95% of my movies at the Drive In and that is barely VHS quality.. ha ha.

What's a Drive-In? You mean like a burger place. :)

November 18th, 2010, 11:22 PM	#61
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	Well the cheaper the better. If it makes video anywhere near the F3, things will never be the same. Besides minor updates where could they go from here? They could do 4k but that would kill what's so special about this chip, the incredible low light and dynamic range. Bah who cares, just give me one. Oh and you're welcome Glen. I included that picture of the back for that very reason. __________________ EX3, Q6600 Quad core PC - Vista 64, Vegas 8.1 64bit, SR11 b-cam

November 19th, 2010, 08:07 PM	#67
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	Modular is fine but this thing looks like a brick. Looks more like a big DSLR than a video camera. I've been thinking about it and I sure am going to miss the EX work flow and just all the hardware and so forth. XDcam EX is so easy to edit and looks so nice. AVCHD is such a pain, the high bitrate stuff even more so, to the point of it being stupid hard. At AVC 24mbps I would probably have to transcode everything into something else before dropping it into a timeline. __________________ EX3, Q6600 Quad core PC - Vista 64, Vegas 8.1 64bit, SR11 b-cam Last edited by Erik Phairas; November 19th, 2010 at 10:18 PM.

November 20th, 2010, 06:04 PM	#73
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	Wow the red users are up in arms over sony's two new cameras. Bugs me they are so convinced a 1080p camera is not relevant these days. I feel the same thing about a 4k cameras. Hell I watch 95% of my movies at the Drive In and that is barely VHS quality.. ha ha. __________________ EX3, Q6600 Quad core PC - Vista 64, Vegas 8.1 64bit, SR11 b-cam

November 19th, 2010, 02:32 AM	#62
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	I gather the new camera isn't totally finalised and Sony has done a bit of a RED by showing prototypes/images, which may or may not be representative of the final camera. I'm qualifying this because Ford introduced the Sierra as a concept car and everyone said that Ford wouldn't manufacture a car like that, but sure enough the following year it came out. Ford Sierra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

November 19th, 2010, 06:11 AM	#63
David Heath Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,699	Well - the time from announcement from promised launch is probably LESS than the AF100 is going to be. It would also seem to be quite logical to announce it at the same time as the F3, which itself was announced only a few months before launch.

November 19th, 2010, 12:32 PM	#66
Charlie Webster Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Sun Valley, Idaho Posts: 81	What strikes me is the whole modular form factor, which does remind me of the reds. The emount ofcourse means it can use any lens ever made since 1945 right out of the box, since the adapters are already available. I was playing last night with my new/old soligar 135mm f/2 on the vg10. To my surprise it was usable shot off a plain 501 head. It's really a sweet piece of glass for around 150. Another great low light deal is the Korean 85mm 1.4, which by all accounts is very sharp, and 240 new. One would hope for a e-mount wide zoom of current nikon quality and speed someday. A lens like that in the 2-3k range would have a market waiting. Third party lens makers have got to eyeing the whole nex market.

November 20th, 2010, 06:51 AM	#68
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	The modular approach is more what you'd expect for the F3 (which does look rather pro-consumer), rather than the NXCAM model. BTW It's amazing how large the F3 looks with a 35mm motion picture zoom lens & matte box fitted.

November 20th, 2010, 11:08 AM	#69
Charlie Webster Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Sun Valley, Idaho Posts: 81	All my experience is with the venerable pd170 and vx2k. I've been really surprised that tapeless prosumer cams- the good ones- all seem just as heavy or heavier. Does anyone know how much this one weighs? I finally bit the bullet and bought a vg10, which is wonderfully light. As most know it has a number of very silly limitations. It is a flat out scandal that the Sony promo shows indie wannabe wandering around Bali with a tripod, while in fact vg10 tripod mount is ridiculous. There is such an obvious niche for something between this 6k model and vg10. All they need is a better build and some more controls with the vg10-- well also moire filtering-- and it would be an instant star. As far as the avhcd work flow, it seems no more pain than what it takes now to properly downsize for good DVD quality from the various hd codecs--- you can spend days reading those threads.

November 20th, 2010, 02:08 PM	#70
Lawrence Bansbach Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 295	Seems to me that for less than $2k, the VG10 could have had a better OLPF, 24p (Canon has this on pretty much all of its AVCHD models), better controls, and 10-bit HDMI out (how much does 10- vs. 8-bit really add the cost of manufacture -- a few bucks?). XLRs are nice, but not really necessary -- if desired, they can be added on (and are, in fact, and add-on module for the 2/3-inch Scarlet). Panasonic hobbled the AF100 with 8-bit HD-SDI/HDMI. Sony's hobbling their models with, in my opinion (obviously), excessively high price points. I really hope that Canon steps up to the challenge.

November 21st, 2010, 02:34 AM	#74
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	The 1080p market is much larger than 4k and that won't change for many years, especially when the world is in an economic recession. The current push is 3D, rather than more resolution, which is great to have at acquisition, but there's a lot of "good enough" by producers (which has generally always been the case, that's why DIs are mostly 2k).