Manfrotto LANC problem

Chris Soucy · May 2nd, 2012, 10:27 PM

Umm, have you tried asking Sony?

Someone there must know what gives, they can't simply re - write the Lanc protocol without saying squat, if, indeed, that's what's happened.

CS

Scott Taylor · May 2nd, 2012, 11:39 PM

Actually i rang them today. The guy on the phone (a bloody kiwi :) ) didn't have an answer for me but he did ask their IT department.

He was surprised that Sony didn't even offer a remote for the NX70P (he looked it up), but didn't have an answer for me regards the REMOTE/LANC question. Most of the stuff they deal with is the consumer stuff and so he didn't have much info on the pro stuff although he did ask me if I knew about the firmware upgrade.

I told him I've already done the upgrade (first thing I did after I tried the camera and that awful zoom).

He gave me a number to try. Going to call it shortly.

Scott Taylor · May 3rd, 2012, 12:00 AM

Tried Videocraft, where I bought the camera. They knew of no problem but reckoned the camera was pretty new so they hadn't heard much back about it. They reckoned i should try Sony again.

Chris Soucy · May 3rd, 2012, 12:42 AM

Whilst doing a bit of research on your problem, I perused the Sony Oz site.

If you click on the "remote enabled" camera link, it takes you straight to the NX70 and a host of others.

Something going on here.

Have they re - programmed "Remote" NOT to be Lanc, but something else, as Lanc simply couldn't do it?

Makes sense in a way, so much has changed since Lanc was introduced, maybe simply not enough bits/ bytes for newer cameras?

I'll stay tuned.

Oh, BTW, enough of the "bloody Kiwi" nonsense, I'm a Canadian, Australian, Pom (working on Kiwi) who just seem to have washed up here as flotsam.

So there!

Regards,

CS

Dave Blackhurst · May 3rd, 2012, 02:47 PM

Don't have the NX70, but I've got some familiarity with Sony and their LANC implementations... I'll take a wild blind swing at this...

First, is there a "dedicated" remote minijack style port? Or is this through the A/V jack as has been Sony practice on Handycams for several years now? And do you have access to ANY other LANC controllers you can test against the jack on the camera?

There ARE some variations on implementation of features accessed through the LANC port, but the BASIC functions (on/off record, photo, and zoom) SHOULD work unless the remote is not communicating with the camera. Sony does have a "signal" on the A/V port that lets the camera know that a LANC is present, and I'm suspicious that it's something related to that sort of "lockout" that is preventing your remote from working as expected.

I got somewhat familiar, when reverse engineering the A/V jack, with how Sony handles the LANC signal (still doesn't make me an expert!), and I found that different controllers sometimes had quite different results that "expected", although once it works, the basic stuff should work fine, just need to figure out where the "breakdown" in the signal cahin is happening. Got to do some "elimination" tests...

Mike Beckett · May 3rd, 2012, 09:34 PM

The NX70 has a dedicated "Remote" port as well as a combined AV/remote port along the right hand side near the hand grip.

I use my Libec Lanc control with no problems, but it is very basic, with just zoom and start/stop. I prefer it that way, not too many buttons to press by accident during recording. (I used to use a Bebob Zoe DV controller, and it was just too easy to press the power off switch!).

Now, I've never heard of this brand, but I was first made aware of the use of the right hand side AV port for remote here:

Helin HL-R1AVR Controller

This comes complete with pictures of the NX70, where you can see both ports.

I'm not sure what the advantage of the AV port connection is over the more usual Lanc-type connector. The NX70 manual is particularly vague about that, in that true Sony way.

I do recall from elsewhere that some Sony camcorders don't support all the functions of Lanc, which might be why the refer to it as "Remote" instead of "Lanc".

Scott Taylor · May 3rd, 2012, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Beckett

The NX70 has a dedicated "Remote" port as well as a combined AV/remote port along the right hand side near the hand grip.

I use my Libec Lanc control with no problems, but it is very basic, with just zoom and start/stop. I prefer it that way, not too many buttons to press by accident during recording. (I used to use a Bebob Zoe DV controller, and it was just too easy to press the power off switch!).

Now, I've never heard of this brand, but I was first made aware of the use of the right hand side AV port for remote here:

Helin HL-R1AVR Controller

This comes complete with pictures of the NX70, where you can see both ports.

I'm not sure what the advantage of the AV port connection is over the more usual Lanc-type connector. The NX70 manual is particularly vague about that, in that true Sony way.

I do recall from elsewhere that some Sony camcorders don't support all the functions of Lanc, which might be why the refer to it as "Remote" instead of "Lanc".

That's a bit bizarre, so it connects to the AV Port. Weird!

i'll look into the Libec LANC

Scott Taylor · May 3rd, 2012, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

Don't have the NX70, but I've got some familiarity with Sony and their LANC implementations... I'll take a wild blind swing at this...

First, is there a "dedicated" remote minijack style port? Or is this through the A/V jack as has been Sony practice on Handycams for several years now? And do you have access to ANY other LANC controllers you can test against the jack on the camera?

Yeah It's a dedicated 2.5mm mini-jack. It's on the left in this photo, labelled as REMOTE

I've got no other LANC's unfortunately, I live 70km from the nearest decent town and I can't think of anywhere in that town that would have a LANC (except maybe the TV station). Even the place where I bought the camera - 300km away - indicated that they didn't have a LANC in stock.

Mike Beckett · May 3rd, 2012, 11:50 PM

Scott,

The port is actually labelled "AV / R" (I assume the "R" means "remote").

I've never seen that on prosumer cameras before. The Libec controller uses the usual 2.5mm remote port on the left of that shot.

The Libec is also relatively cheap too, which is a plus when it lives on my tripod permanently and gets a fair bit of abuse. Better to wreck a £100 controller than a £400 one!

Dave Blackhurst · May 4th, 2012, 12:13 AM

Hmmmm... from the description, there are TWO injection points for the LANC... both the A/V - R, which is what the handycams have used since IIRC the HC3, PLUS a dedicated 2.5mm port, which was the "traditional" interface.

I'll venture a guess that that's where the problem lies - I know for certain that the A/V has a "signal" using a resistor between two contacts to tell the camera the A/V based remote is connected, and that it should expect LANC input. 2.5mm SHOULD be plug in and go... Perhaps try the "remote" function in the menus in BOTH on and off?

I can't understand why a "standard" 2.5mm LANC isn't working, as even using an adapter to allow one to work through the A/V jack was 100% reliable on any LANC controllers I tried, at least as to basic functions.

Maybe pick up a cheap LANC on eBay to test with? You say the remote is still working with the PD170?

Chris Soucy · May 4th, 2012, 01:45 AM

Scott, how far away are you from a Dick Smiths?

Do you own a multimeter?

If you can find somewhere to beg/ borrow/ steal/ buy a "bare bones" 2.5mm stereo plug, and have use of a half decent multimeter, plug the, er, plug, into the "remote" hole, leaving the shroud off.

Using the multimeter, check to see if you can find a +5volts level betwen any two of the three pins.

I'm starting to wonder if Sony have maybe made a bit of a screw up with the NX70 and not even conncted the remote port to the electrics. If you can't find 5 volts between any two of the three pins, there's no power, equals no Lanc.

This is starting to get a bit bizarre.

CS

PS: Dick Smiths = Radio Shack = Maplins = your usual corner electronic components store.

Scott Taylor · May 4th, 2012, 02:04 AM

It obviously has some power because it illuminates the light on the LANC controller, it just doesn't do anything else.

Dave Blackhurst · May 4th, 2012, 12:18 PM

More puzzling! Power is there, but no response to commands...??? Have you tried contacting Manfrotto? Since you tied your controller in another NX70 and it didn't work, but we have a report of another brand working... sort of suggests there's a problem at the "speaking" end that's causing the camera to not understand the instructions beind sent. LANCs are programmed as well, so there's the possibility that the controller end is the one not entirely to "spec".

I seem to recall some problems with other Manfrotto/Sony cam combos, you might try running a search on this forum and see if anything pops up? DVi sometimes has answers or help buried deep in the "archives"...

Chris Soucy · May 4th, 2012, 04:09 PM

Scott.................

If the camera does, indeed, have two possible ports for Lanc/ Not Lanc control, maybe the menu Remote On/ Off setting isn't the end of the story.

Perhaps there's another Menu switch to select I/P from one port or the other, as I can't believe both ports could be active at the same time.

Powered, yes, but data enabled, no.

God only knows what it would be labeled though.

Give those Menus another close scrute.

CS

Scott Taylor · May 4th, 2012, 06:55 PM

After having a good look through the manual I've found the menu setting for the remote is only to turn on/off access to the supplied wireless remote (which is as useful as tits on a bull).

I've tried powering up the camera with the LANC already connected, I've tried connecting it with the camera already on, I've tried connecting the LANC cable at the camera end first and then at the controller end, it just doesn't work with my NX70P.

I think I'll just go buy the Libec unit seeing that works apparently.

May 2nd, 2012, 10:27 PM	#16
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Re: Manfrotto LANC problem Umm, have you tried asking Sony? Someone there must know what gives, they can't simply re - write the Lanc protocol without saying squat, if, indeed, that's what's happened. CS

May 2nd, 2012, 11:39 PM	#17
Scott Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 26	Re: Manfrotto LANC problem Actually i rang them today. The guy on the phone (a bloody kiwi :) ) didn't have an answer for me but he did ask their IT department. He was surprised that Sony didn't even offer a remote for the NX70P (he looked it up), but didn't have an answer for me regards the REMOTE/LANC question. Most of the stuff they deal with is the consumer stuff and so he didn't have much info on the pro stuff although he did ask me if I knew about the firmware upgrade. I told him I've already done the upgrade (first thing I did after I tried the camera and that awful zoom). He gave me a number to try. Going to call it shortly.

May 3rd, 2012, 12:00 AM	#18
Scott Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 26	Re: Manfrotto LANC problem Tried Videocraft, where I bought the camera. They knew of no problem but reckoned the camera was pretty new so they hadn't heard much back about it. They reckoned i should try Sony again.

May 3rd, 2012, 12:42 AM	#19
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Re: Manfrotto LANC problem Whilst doing a bit of research on your problem, I perused the Sony Oz site. If you click on the "remote enabled" camera link, it takes you straight to the NX70 and a host of others. Something going on here. Have they re - programmed "Remote" NOT to be Lanc, but something else, as Lanc simply couldn't do it? Makes sense in a way, so much has changed since Lanc was introduced, maybe simply not enough bits/ bytes for newer cameras? I'll stay tuned. Oh, BTW, enough of the "bloody Kiwi" nonsense, I'm a Canadian, Australian, Pom (working on Kiwi) who just seem to have washed up here as flotsam. So there! Regards, CS

May 3rd, 2012, 02:47 PM	#20
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Manfrotto LANC problem Don't have the NX70, but I've got some familiarity with Sony and their LANC implementations... I'll take a wild blind swing at this... First, is there a "dedicated" remote minijack style port? Or is this through the A/V jack as has been Sony practice on Handycams for several years now? And do you have access to ANY other LANC controllers you can test against the jack on the camera? There ARE some variations on implementation of features accessed through the LANC port, but the BASIC functions (on/off record, photo, and zoom) SHOULD work unless the remote is not communicating with the camera. Sony does have a "signal" on the A/V port that lets the camera know that a LANC is present, and I'm suspicious that it's something related to that sort of "lockout" that is preventing your remote from working as expected. I got somewhat familiar, when reverse engineering the A/V jack, with how Sony handles the LANC signal (still doesn't make me an expert!), and I found that different controllers sometimes had quite different results that "expected", although once it works, the basic stuff should work fine, just need to figure out where the "breakdown" in the signal cahin is happening. Got to do some "elimination" tests...

May 3rd, 2012, 09:34 PM	#21
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	Re: Manfrotto LANC problem The NX70 has a dedicated "Remote" port as well as a combined AV/remote port along the right hand side near the hand grip. I use my Libec Lanc control with no problems, but it is very basic, with just zoom and start/stop. I prefer it that way, not too many buttons to press by accident during recording. (I used to use a Bebob Zoe DV controller, and it was just too easy to press the power off switch!). Now, I've never heard of this brand, but I was first made aware of the use of the right hand side AV port for remote here: Helin HL-R1AVR Controller This comes complete with pictures of the NX70, where you can see both ports. I'm not sure what the advantage of the AV port connection is over the more usual Lanc-type connector. The NX70 manual is particularly vague about that, in that true Sony way. I do recall from elsewhere that some Sony camcorders don't support all the functions of Lanc, which might be why the refer to it as "Remote" instead of "Lanc".

May 3rd, 2012, 11:50 PM	#24
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	Re: Manfrotto LANC problem Scott, The port is actually labelled "AV / R" (I assume the "R" means "remote"). I've never seen that on prosumer cameras before. The Libec controller uses the usual 2.5mm remote port on the left of that shot. The Libec is also relatively cheap too, which is a plus when it lives on my tripod permanently and gets a fair bit of abuse. Better to wreck a £100 controller than a £400 one!

May 4th, 2012, 12:13 AM	#25
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Manfrotto LANC problem Hmmmm... from the description, there are TWO injection points for the LANC... both the A/V - R, which is what the handycams have used since IIRC the HC3, PLUS a dedicated 2.5mm port, which was the "traditional" interface. I'll venture a guess that that's where the problem lies - I know for certain that the A/V has a "signal" using a resistor between two contacts to tell the camera the A/V based remote is connected, and that it should expect LANC input. 2.5mm SHOULD be plug in and go... Perhaps try the "remote" function in the menus in BOTH on and off? I can't understand why a "standard" 2.5mm LANC isn't working, as even using an adapter to allow one to work through the A/V jack was 100% reliable on any LANC controllers I tried, at least as to basic functions. Maybe pick up a cheap LANC on eBay to test with? You say the remote is still working with the PD170?

May 4th, 2012, 01:45 AM	#26
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Re: Manfrotto LANC problem Scott, how far away are you from a Dick Smiths? Do you own a multimeter? If you can find somewhere to beg/ borrow/ steal/ buy a "bare bones" 2.5mm stereo plug, and have use of a half decent multimeter, plug the, er, plug, into the "remote" hole, leaving the shroud off. Using the multimeter, check to see if you can find a +5volts level betwen any two of the three pins. I'm starting to wonder if Sony have maybe made a bit of a screw up with the NX70 and not even conncted the remote port to the electrics. If you can't find 5 volts between any two of the three pins, there's no power, equals no Lanc. This is starting to get a bit bizarre. CS PS: Dick Smiths = Radio Shack = Maplins = your usual corner electronic components store.

May 4th, 2012, 02:04 AM	#27
Scott Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 26	Re: Manfrotto LANC problem It obviously has some power because it illuminates the light on the LANC controller, it just doesn't do anything else.

May 4th, 2012, 12:18 PM	#28
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Manfrotto LANC problem More puzzling! Power is there, but no response to commands...??? Have you tried contacting Manfrotto? Since you tied your controller in another NX70 and it didn't work, but we have a report of another brand working... sort of suggests there's a problem at the "speaking" end that's causing the camera to not understand the instructions beind sent. LANCs are programmed as well, so there's the possibility that the controller end is the one not entirely to "spec". I seem to recall some problems with other Manfrotto/Sony cam combos, you might try running a search on this forum and see if anything pops up? DVi sometimes has answers or help buried deep in the "archives"...

May 4th, 2012, 04:09 PM	#29
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,691 Images: 18	Re: Manfrotto LANC problem Scott................. If the camera does, indeed, have two possible ports for Lanc/ Not Lanc control, maybe the menu Remote On/ Off setting isn't the end of the story. Perhaps there's another Menu switch to select I/P from one port or the other, as I can't believe both ports could be active at the same time. Powered, yes, but data enabled, no. God only knows what it would be labeled though. Give those Menus another close scrute. CS

May 4th, 2012, 06:55 PM	#30
Scott Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 26	Re: Manfrotto LANC problem After having a good look through the manual I've found the menu setting for the remote is only to turn on/off access to the supplied wireless remote (which is as useful as tits on a bull). I've tried powering up the camera with the LANC already connected, I've tried connecting it with the camera already on, I've tried connecting the LANC cable at the camera end first and then at the controller end, it just doesn't work with my NX70P. I think I'll just go buy the Libec unit seeing that works apparently.