New Sony HXR-NX30E Palmcorder with advanced Stabilization

[Ron Evans]

I have an NX5U too which has lots of noise above about 6db of gain. The little Sony's are much better at 18db + in comparison. Just posted a quick video from my new NX30. Nothing fancy , all full auto. Original is 1920x1080 60P but on Vimeo it will have been re-encoded to 720 30P.

Vegas NX30 encode on Vimeo

Ron Evans

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Ara Gureghian

I fully understand of course iris, exposure, f stop.

I know you do but you have to know how the camera is dealing with this, if you set the iris to manual, this camera is still compensating, not sure if it uses the gain (or in phototerms iso) to do this but it could also be a combination of gain and shutter. It is easy to see what the camera is doing though, when you playback the clip in camera you can see all the camera data live but I never bothered to check. Setting the camera to manual exposure allows gradual exposure changes without having the camera doing it for you.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Ara Gureghian

Here is a good article on gain.

He is testing with a camera that produces a lot of grain and he also recommends against using it if you have sufficient light and if you can open up the iris. In theory that's correct but a nx30 or the cx line of Sony camera's are build to use high gains, they are very good at using it and they produce very little grain, even at 24db. So with these camera's there is nothing wrong with using higher gains, in fact you very quickly need to use it as they are not so sensitive at 0db gain and when you start zooming in they ramp very quickly so gain is your friend :)
My cx730 has less visible grain at 24db then my older Canon xh-a1 at 6db...

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Ara Gureghian

I was even thinking jumping to the NEX-EA50UH - We are on a motorcycle with a sidecar for my Dog Spirit camping full time for the past over 6 years and "room" is valuable!

Those 2 don't rime, the ea50 is like a small bazooka in length and is much more difficult to carry around. Then you might be better of with a nx70 which is still small in size, has a bit more manual control compared to a nx30 and is more dust and rain proof.

[Ara Gureghian]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

I know you do but you have to know how the camera is dealing with this, if you set the iris to manual, this camera is still compensating, not sure if it uses the gain (or in phototerms iso) to do this but it could also be a combination of gain and shutter. It is easy to see what the camera is doing though, when you playback the clip in camera you can see all the camera data live but I never bothered to check. Setting the camera to manual exposure allows gradual exposure changes without having the camera doing it for you.

You mean setting it to "auto exposure" as in manual such exposure is not going to change? I think that is the area being gray to me. You set one thing and it changes the other. For example if it is set on any "scene selection". the "WB", "iris" and "exposure" settings are canceled. Having "Automatic Gain Control" on "off" setting was for me to be able to shoot in dim light some Musicians without grain but set the dB at 3. So far that has worked.

Originally Posted by Noa Put

He is testing with a camera that produces a lot of grain and he also recommends against using it if you have sufficient light and if you can open up the iris. In theory that's correct but a nx30 or the cx line of Sony camera's are build to use high gains, they are very good at using it and they produce very little grain, even at 24db. So with these camera's there is nothing wrong with using higher gains, in fact you very quickly need to use it as they are not so sensitive at 0db gain and when you start zooming in they ramp very quickly so gain is your friend :)
My cx730 has less visible grain at 24db then my older Canon xh-a1 at 6db...

I agree with that.

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Those 2 don't rime, the ea50 is like a small bazooka in length and is much more difficult to carry around. Then you might be better of with a nx70 which is still small in size, has a bit more manual control compared to a nx30 and is more dust and rain proof.

I am laughing here as yes! I cannot see me carry that "think" looking like a small canon! I had not seen the nx70, wish I had as we are indeed in the middle of much dust ans storms! I might exchange it for that model. That was the problem when I had a couple Mark 5D, the older model not dust proof and with no sensor cleaning. I had to send them back every 3 months to have the sensors cleaned. Almost 2 years now with the Mark II and never a problem. B&H is very good at exchanges, it would be a first for me as I do a lot of research before ordering an items, obviously not this time. I do want to end up, besides short videos I put on You Tube [I know Vimeo is better] with an hour and a half long Documentary on our Life on the road with all the remote locations we spend time in. Could be on a DVD or even a memory stick. Some are the size of a credit card with swinging stick on which one can also have a photo printed. Will continue testing footage today, these coming days.

I appreciate your follow up by the way. We are stopped for a bit to mainly decipher this camera. It is nice to get feed back with another owning the same camera. Coincidence also [off subject] we have the same Birthday! [not year]. I was born the 26th [officially the 28th, in Montpelier, France, long story]. I was in Jambes a while back, in the Namur Province, my Uncle and Aunt live there, nice little town on the Moselle watching the boats go by.

I am shooting BTW on PS 1080p 60.

Stay well. Ara and Spirit

[Ron Evans]

In some respects the little Sony's are always in automatic whatever the settings. Its really like a fly by wire system because it is not ever possible to set all the parameters manual, individually. It is only possible to set one of them and never gain. So one can set iris or shutter really. The difference between exposure and AE shift is for exposure the lightness or darkness is fixed by the setting you have chosen and in AE shift the relative lightness or darkness is fixed . In both cases the camera has decided what the individual parameters will be. In AE shift iAuto can be on too so it will change the parameters depending on its choice of scene selection dynamically adjusting for backlight etc My usual choice for the unattended cameras having used spot focus to set the focus.

When you set one of the parameters the camera uses the others to set exposure. AGC Off for the NX30 is under the Gain limit setting so AGC OFF in this context means there is no limit and the camera is in complete control. Setting a limit just limits the amount of gain that the camera will use. Knowing how good these camera are in comparison to my NX5U I will not bother to set a gain limit !!!!


Ron Evans

[Noa Put]

You mean setting it to "auto exposure" as in manual such exposure is not going to change? I think that is the area being gray to me.

I mostly set the exposure to manual and assign it to the front small wheel, when I'm filming in a dark environment the shutter will be a 1/50, the iris wide open and the gain or iso will go higher to compensate, if I would go outside and turn the small knob to adjust for exposure the gain will first go down, the iris will close and the shutter will increase. I don't have full manual control over gain, iris and shutter but when you assign the exposure to teh front wheel you at least have full controll over your exposure, if I get a strong backlight I can adjust accordingly and don't have to worry about the camera doing any funny stuff, I always have the zebras on so I will adjust the exposure based on those zebras and based on what I want to have exposed right, that's what the "exposure" function is for.

Outside your shutter will go up very high if you don't use a nd filter but I don't mind as for my kind of work that isn't such an issue, I also can't see what the camera is doing because all camera data is only visible in playback, rather funny way of Sony to cripple the camera. If you use a nd filter it's important to see how that affects other parameters so you can adjust, now you just have to guess. In that case it could be that you are applying gain outside when it's not unnecessary if you use a too strong variable nd but you don't know during filming.

I live close to the Dutch border so Namur (or as we call it in Flemisch: "Namen") is a 1,5 hour drive from my place. I bet the weather is a bit nicer where you live then here right now :)

[Ron Evans]

I think the NX70 shows the parameters which would be nice to see. Like Noa I have zebras set all the time too. When my wife uses one of the little Sony's as a closeup camera she has it in exposure mode just like Noa and adjusts based on the zebras. When I use the variable ND on the CX700 I set it so that the image just starts to go dark ( the point were shutter is at 1/60, iris is open and gain is max ) then I back off from this a little. Having looked at the data code I know that the Sony will bring down the gain a little then close down the iris a little too to get close to the lens sweet spot. I find this approach OK for skiing and better than having the shutter speed too high. With the NX70 or EA50 or the other NXCAM's one could actually see the ND effect in the on screen parameters. I would have liked this on the NX30 and I am sure it would have been possible. Typical Sony !!!!


Ron Evans

[Ara Gureghian]

It is so odd [yet normal] to be so well versed in Photography and so ignoramus in videos! Never had a second thought when using my Go Pros or for indoor the little S-95 [Canon] which truly did such a good job!
Well, I called B&H to see if I could exchange it for the 70 which would be weatherproof and have the ring instead of the little wheel, but I blew it as I have already send the CPU bar code off the box to get a free Vegas Pros 12, even though I use PE11. Oh! well... The camera is in a protected case and I am not out with cameras in sand storms or storms period. [anymore! use to].

Yes, the weather is Southern Texas is actually a bit too hot right now, almost hit 100 yesterday as I looked for Cottonwood trees to shelter a few hours. Headed north to Alaska soon. Many sights in between where we can get to with our 2 wheel drive / reverse Ural sidecar!

Will continue reading your posts for sure, all that info is slowly sinking! Slowly but surely. My big thing is I don't like noise in the images [of course, who does?]. Another odd thought I also forget [which might seem strange to yous], is the fact that videos are edited! The bad parts are cut off... That is a big jump from Photography, were the image IS the image...].

Stay well... Ara and Spirit

[Dave Blackhurst]

As another long time Sony Handycam shooter, let me consolidate what already has been suggested...

Use "AEShift" set between -2 and -4 (now expressed as "EV", same difference) Sonys tend to overexpose a bit, this "fixes" that without having to fiddle with any other "manual" tweaks.

Turn on the "low lux" function, it will only kick in when you're dealing with very low light, but will get you a usable image in pretty bad lighting conditions, again without having to manually tweak things.

I too set the button/knob to exposure, gives you a "quick" override if you see the camera having trouble with a specific shot.

Spot focus/exposure is another way to "adjust" without having to manually tweak - it tells the "brains" what specific part of the frame you want the camera to adjust to.

There's a new "feature" called "My Button" buried in the camera menu, that lets you assign three functions to the left side of the touchscreen - not sure yet which 3 to pick, but thought I'd throw it out there since it's a rather obscure 'feature" you might never notice, and new on this generation of Sony cams!

[Ron Evans]

I have MY buttons set to Spot focus, Steadyshot, and guide frame ( for tripod setup ) . Dial button set to exposure or AE shift depending on use.

Ron Evans

[Ara Gureghian]

Actually just fumbling with it now. I don't know why I am having such hard time understanding all the overrides. I am leaving my gain at 3db for less noise and doing manual exposure. The camera is actually going back tomorrow to be traded with the 70 model. I was not aware it even existed. Bad research. I need weatherproof since camping 24/7 and I cannot stand that little dial by the lens. Will be without for a couple weeks.
Anyone knows how to determine how much time wise one has used such camera? Is it that clock upper right running the time? Has to be 2 hours or less.
Thanks. Ara and Spirit

Wondering if this forum has Tapatalk?

[Ara Gureghian]

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

As another long time Sony Handycam shooter, let me consolidate what already has been suggested...

Use "AEShift" set between -2 and -4 (now expressed as "EV", same difference) Sonys tend to overexpose a bit, this "fixes" that without having to fiddle with any other "manual" tweaks.

Turn on the "low lux" function, it will only kick in when you're dealing with very low light, but will get you a usable image in pretty bad lighting conditions, again without having to manually tweak things.

I too set the button/knob to exposure, gives you a "quick" override if you see the camera having trouble with a specific shot.

Spot focus/exposure is another way to "adjust" without having to manually tweak - it tells the "brains" what specific part of the frame you want the camera to adjust to.

There's a new "feature" called "My Button" buried in the camera menu, that lets you assign three functions to the left side of the touchscreen - not sure yet which 3 to pick, but thought I'd throw it out there since it's a rather obscure 'feature" you might never notice, and new on this generation of Sony cams!

Thanks for all the info Dave.
After all this, the camera has been mailed back this morning and awaiting for the NX70.
A bit more manual controls and the big thing for me is the "weatherproof" [realizing that the mic however is not]. When I had a Canon 5D it went back every 3 months to be cleaned [sensor]. I just don't want to be put in that situation. The little dial also by the lens really bugged me! I know it is the same camera, will never give me the clear image of a Mark II or III, but this as far as I can go now.
I might have to look for an NX70 thread now!
Stay well. Ara and Spirit

[Ron Evans]

The NX70 is a variant of the CX700 a 1 year older technology than the NX30. It does however have a few advantages in weather proofing and more indication on the LCD of exposure parameters. You have full manual control on the NX70 including gain ( not on any of the other little Sony's). But you can still operate just like the other Sony's in the semi auto modes that we have mentioned. I considered it when I bought my NX30 but really wanted the balanced Steadyshot for handheld stuff and I am happy with the semi auto uses that I have been used to with my other little Sony's ( SR11, XR500, CX700).

Enjoy

Ron Evans

[Ara Gureghian]

Originally Posted by Ron Evans

The NX70 is a variant of the CX700 a 1 year older technology than the NX30. It does however have a few advantages in weather proofing and more indication on the LCD of exposure parameters. You have full manual control on the NX70 including gain ( not on any of the other little Sony's). But you can still operate just like the other Sony's in the semi auto modes that we have mentioned. I considered it when I bought my NX30 but really wanted the balanced Steadyshot for handheld stuff and I am happy with the semi auto uses that I have been used to with my other little Sony's ( SR11, XR500, CX700).

Enjoy

Ron Evans

Will see how the "Optical Steady shot" is. I am always using a tripod either way. My hands are just not that steady! Too much riding off road, [including neuralgia in my neck!]. Will let you updated after Friday.
Stay well... I am still reading all the posts and more posts! Ara and Spirit