Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else? at DVinfo.net

Ed Henderson · March 21st, 2012, 09:49 AM

I have been doing a ton of research on various cameras trying to find the best one. The NX70 seems like a good solution, but I'm a bit hesitant based on some of the negative comments, and the zoom rocker. The new firmware is due out tomorrow actually, so I'm waiting to see how that works out. I want to hear the feedback. The reason I like the NX70 are:

- 3 CMOS sensors.
- dual XLR inputs.
- shoots 1080p/60.
- ** new firmware adds 30p also, which I thought was a glaring ommision.
- waterproof: the main use for this will be outdoor garden, nature videos, so rain/sprinklers, etc are always possible.
- More manual capabilities than the consumer versions
- SD card (my current camera is MiniDV - I'm done with Tapes!)
- 28Mb/s, a bit better quality than the standard 24
- Low light performance, this is useful in certain evening and early morning situations.

I've looked at the possibility of the soon-to-be released CX7600. That lists at $1500, so quite a bit less expensive, but does not have all of the above features.. maybe it's worth it?

Other options are the Canon XF100.. some things I don't like about the XF100:
- no 1080p/60, only 720p/60
- uses compact flash
- unfamiliar with the MXF format..
- single sensor.

I've seen the NX70 listed as NX70, NX70U, and even NX70F.. are these different variants? Is there a way to make sure you get the most recent build from Sony, and the possibility of a fix or two in hardware? I'm not sure what the -U, or -F mean.

Any thoughts about this purchase would be greatly appreciated.. I never expected to have this much trouble buying a camera..

Cheers,

Ed

Andy Lewicky · March 21st, 2012, 10:47 AM

The NX70U is a one-chip camcorder.

Ed Henderson · March 21st, 2012, 11:01 AM

Oh.. yes, I got confused between the NX5U and the NX70..

The NX5U has 3 1/3" sensors, while the NX70 has a single 1/2.88".

The NX5U is listed at $3,999 on BH. That is $1200 more than the NX70. I would perhaps consider an NX5U, but I was disappointed to see that it does not support 1080p 60.

I did not mention in the original post, but I also do some sports video, tennis specifically. So the progressive capture formats, in 60FPS are quite important to me. The NX5U has 720p60, which is okay, but they also have a sports capture mode that captures in 60i. I've done a fair amount of work with sports video, and capturing interlaced is not desirable in general.

Normally you split the interlaced video into two half-resolution frames. This is usually a pain to accomplish, but yields 60fps on a standard MiniDV camera.

I was really hoping to have a camera that captures 60p, and then I have the slow motion and full resolution. One thought though is, if the NX5U captures 1080i/60, which in fact means that it captures 120fps half-resolution, that could be quite impressive from a slow-motion perspective. But that still means one has to perform the deinterlacing, unless the camera has the means to do that for you.

Ron Evans · March 21st, 2012, 11:05 AM

NX70 is essentially a CX700 in a waterproof housing. With the XLR attached it isn't waterproof and there are lots of comments about the variable zoom controller. The CX700 zoom control is very sensitive but does work with a little practice very well. If you need the water proofing get the Sony waterproof housing for the CX700 or the newer CX760 when it is available. Will be a lot cheaper with likely the same performance. The XF100 is a more capable camera with a lot more controls. Just a little more than the NX70 the Panasonic AC130 would be a better camera too.

Ron Evans

Matt Sharp · March 21st, 2012, 11:08 AM

The suffix designates the country/region of the camera. Other than that there's only one version of the camera. We're only just now getting a firmware update to "fix" the terrible zoom rocker it's had since release.

Having had an NX70 for 8 months I'll say unless you need the weatherproofing go for something else. The JVC HM150U and Canon XF100 look like a good alternatives if you don't want to jump up to the AX2000 price range.

Ed Henderson · March 21st, 2012, 11:20 AM

Would the AX2000 be a good step-up option? The cost difference is not as great as the NX5U.

I cannot tell from the BH specs or the sony.com specs if the AX2000 shoots in 1080p60 or not, or even if it shoots in 720p60. I will have to find the manual for it and take a look.

It does have 3 CMOS sensors I believe.

Ron Evans · March 21st, 2012, 11:46 AM

Neither the AX2000 or the NX5U shoot in 1920x1080P60. The NX5U will shoot in 1280x720P60 but I do not think the AX2000 does. One of the differences of many from the NX5U. I think the Panasonic AC130 is a better buy at the moment. Will have to see if Sony brings out something new at NAB next month. If you do not need a camera right now I would wait until after NAB.

Ron Evans

Ron Evans · March 21st, 2012, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Henderson

I was really hoping to have a camera that captures 60p, and then I have the slow motion and full resolution. One thought though is, if the NX5U captures 1080i/60, which in fact means that it captures 120fps half-resolution, that could be quite impressive from a slow-motion perspective. But that still means one has to perform the deinterlacing, unless the camera has the means to do that for you.

60i is 60 exposures/fields nominally a sec ( 59.94 actually) at half vertical resolution. This is what I shoot all the time on my NX5U. It has the same temporal motion as 60P just half the vertical resolution. Depending on the playback system this can look just as good as progressive. ( ie my Sony 240hz LCD I see no difference between the 60i from the NX5U and the 60P from my CX700) Extracting stills there is of course a big difference. I make interlaced DVD's so I always use a 60i timeline to edit anyway.

Ron Evans

Mike Beckett · March 21st, 2012, 11:57 AM

Re. the waterproofing side of things. See my other post on the topic:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-nxc...rproofing.html

It was, basically, pants in heavy rain, due to the sound and inability to use a zoom remote control. But mainly the sound.

Oddly, I had to buy a petrol raincover for it for future wet days. Go figure!

Ed - a good resource for user manuals, including the NX70 and AX2000 is here: http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/pdf/

Ed Henderson · March 21st, 2012, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Evans

Neither the AX2000 or the NX5U shoot in 1920x1080P60. The NX5U will shoot in 1280x720P60 but I do not think the AX2000 does. One of the differences of many from the NX5U. I think the Panasonic AC130 is a better buy at the moment. Will have to see if Sony brings out something new at NAB next month. If you do not need a camera right now I would wait until after NAB.

Ron Evans

I just took a look at the AC130 manuals and brochure. While it does not support 1080p60, it does support 720p60, which is fine. It also supports over/undercranking, which is even better.. from what I can see, this camera meets or exceeds all of my requirements. It is more expensive, but it appears to be a better solution overall.

Ed Henderson · March 21st, 2012, 12:16 PM

The AC130 is not waterproof, but, based on the various comments, the NX70 waterproofing isn't all it's cracked up to be anyway.. I do wish the AC130 had some higher bit rate captures, but that's about the only 'negative' I can see at the moment.

Mike Beckett · March 21st, 2012, 12:39 PM

Ed,

The AC130 doesn't have under or overcranking, tht's the AC160. It seems to be a pretty good camera, one tht I have my longer-term sights set on.

The NX70 isn't the worst camera in the world, but it coul be a lot better. The ac130 has some issues too... No camera is perfect!

Ed Henderson · March 21st, 2012, 12:50 PM

I was looking at the Panasonic brochure. I missed that it covers the 130 and the 160.

Ed Henderson · March 21st, 2012, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Beckett

Ed,

The AC130 doesn't have under or overcranking, tht's the AC160. It seems to be a pretty good camera, one tht I have my longer-term sights set on.

The NX70 isn't the worst camera in the world, but it coul be a lot better. The ac130 has some issues too... No camera is perfect!

Can you elaborate on some of the AC130 issues.

Are they shared by the 160? I'm almost ready to just dive into the AC160 - the overcrank capability got me excited.

Mike Beckett · March 21st, 2012, 01:22 PM

Ed,

The AC130 does allegedly have a "different" focus system. There's another forum which I won't mention here, with a whole raft of people unhappy with the focus.

On the other hand, a lot of others say it's a more "pro" system and you should either use manual focus or learn how to make the auto focus work for you.

It's not the end of the world, as I said I'm keen to get one of these cameras as soon as I save up.

What I'm trying to say is that every camera will have something that you're unhappy with, even the AC130/AC160. Nothing is perfect. It's just that the NX70E has a few howlers that should never have happened.

March 21st, 2012, 09:49 AM	#1
Ed Henderson New Boot Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Boise Posts: 24	Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else? I have been doing a ton of research on various cameras trying to find the best one. The NX70 seems like a good solution, but I'm a bit hesitant based on some of the negative comments, and the zoom rocker. The new firmware is due out tomorrow actually, so I'm waiting to see how that works out. I want to hear the feedback. The reason I like the NX70 are: - 3 CMOS sensors. - dual XLR inputs. - shoots 1080p/60. - ** new firmware adds 30p also, which I thought was a glaring ommision. - waterproof: the main use for this will be outdoor garden, nature videos, so rain/sprinklers, etc are always possible. - More manual capabilities than the consumer versions - SD card (my current camera is MiniDV - I'm done with Tapes!) - 28Mb/s, a bit better quality than the standard 24 - Low light performance, this is useful in certain evening and early morning situations. I've looked at the possibility of the soon-to-be released CX7600. That lists at $1500, so quite a bit less expensive, but does not have all of the above features.. maybe it's worth it? Other options are the Canon XF100.. some things I don't like about the XF100: - no 1080p/60, only 720p/60 - uses compact flash - unfamiliar with the MXF format.. - single sensor. I've seen the NX70 listed as NX70, NX70U, and even NX70F.. are these different variants? Is there a way to make sure you get the most recent build from Sony, and the possibility of a fix or two in hardware? I'm not sure what the -U, or -F mean. Any thoughts about this purchase would be greatly appreciated.. I never expected to have this much trouble buying a camera.. Cheers, Ed

March 21st, 2012, 10:47 AM	#2
Andy Lewicky New Boot Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 14	Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else? The NX70U is a one-chip camcorder.

March 21st, 2012, 11:01 AM	#3
Ed Henderson New Boot Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Boise Posts: 24	Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else? Oh.. yes, I got confused between the NX5U and the NX70.. The NX5U has 3 1/3" sensors, while the NX70 has a single 1/2.88". The NX5U is listed at $3,999 on BH. That is $1200 more than the NX70. I would perhaps consider an NX5U, but I was disappointed to see that it does not support 1080p 60. I did not mention in the original post, but I also do some sports video, tennis specifically. So the progressive capture formats, in 60FPS are quite important to me. The NX5U has 720p60, which is okay, but they also have a sports capture mode that captures in 60i. I've done a fair amount of work with sports video, and capturing interlaced is not desirable in general. Normally you split the interlaced video into two half-resolution frames. This is usually a pain to accomplish, but yields 60fps on a standard MiniDV camera. I was really hoping to have a camera that captures 60p, and then I have the slow motion and full resolution. One thought though is, if the NX5U captures 1080i/60, which in fact means that it captures 120fps half-resolution, that could be quite impressive from a slow-motion perspective. But that still means one has to perform the deinterlacing, unless the camera has the means to do that for you.

March 21st, 2012, 11:05 AM	#4
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,222	Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else? NX70 is essentially a CX700 in a waterproof housing. With the XLR attached it isn't waterproof and there are lots of comments about the variable zoom controller. The CX700 zoom control is very sensitive but does work with a little practice very well. If you need the water proofing get the Sony waterproof housing for the CX700 or the newer CX760 when it is available. Will be a lot cheaper with likely the same performance. The XF100 is a more capable camera with a lot more controls. Just a little more than the NX70 the Panasonic AC130 would be a better camera too. Ron Evans

March 21st, 2012, 11:08 AM	#5
Matt Sharp Major Player Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Northridge, CA Posts: 280	Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else? The suffix designates the country/region of the camera. Other than that there's only one version of the camera. We're only just now getting a firmware update to "fix" the terrible zoom rocker it's had since release. Having had an NX70 for 8 months I'll say unless you need the weatherproofing go for something else. The JVC HM150U and Canon XF100 look like a good alternatives if you don't want to jump up to the AX2000 price range.

March 21st, 2012, 11:20 AM	#6
Ed Henderson New Boot Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Boise Posts: 24	Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else? Would the AX2000 be a good step-up option? The cost difference is not as great as the NX5U. I cannot tell from the BH specs or the sony.com specs if the AX2000 shoots in 1080p60 or not, or even if it shoots in 720p60. I will have to find the manual for it and take a look. It does have 3 CMOS sensors I believe.

March 21st, 2012, 11:46 AM	#7
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,222	Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else? Neither the AX2000 or the NX5U shoot in 1920x1080P60. The NX5U will shoot in 1280x720P60 but I do not think the AX2000 does. One of the differences of many from the NX5U. I think the Panasonic AC130 is a better buy at the moment. Will have to see if Sony brings out something new at NAB next month. If you do not need a camera right now I would wait until after NAB. Ron Evans

March 21st, 2012, 11:57 AM	#9
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else? Re. the waterproofing side of things. See my other post on the topic: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-nxc...rproofing.html It was, basically, pants in heavy rain, due to the sound and inability to use a zoom remote control. But mainly the sound. Oddly, I had to buy a petrol raincover for it for future wet days. Go figure! Ed - a good resource for user manuals, including the NX70 and AX2000 is here: http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/pdf/

March 21st, 2012, 12:16 PM	#11
Ed Henderson New Boot Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Boise Posts: 24	Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else? The AC130 is not waterproof, but, based on the various comments, the NX70 waterproofing isn't all it's cracked up to be anyway.. I do wish the AC130 had some higher bit rate captures, but that's about the only 'negative' I can see at the moment.

March 21st, 2012, 12:39 PM	#12
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else? Ed, The AC130 doesn't have under or overcranking, tht's the AC160. It seems to be a pretty good camera, one tht I have my longer-term sights set on. The NX70 isn't the worst camera in the world, but it coul be a lot better. The ac130 has some issues too... No camera is perfect!

March 21st, 2012, 12:50 PM	#13
Ed Henderson New Boot Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Boise Posts: 24	Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else? I was looking at the Panasonic brochure. I missed that it covers the 130 and the 160.

March 21st, 2012, 01:22 PM	#15
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	Re: Difficult decision: Get an NX70 or something else? Ed, The AC130 does allegedly have a "different" focus system. There's another forum which I won't mention here, with a whole raft of people unhappy with the focus. On the other hand, a lot of others say it's a more "pro" system and you should either use manual focus or learn how to make the auto focus work for you. It's not the end of the world, as I said I'm keen to get one of these cameras as soon as I save up. What I'm trying to say is that every camera will have something that you're unhappy with, even the AC130/AC160. Nothing is perfect. It's just that the NX70E has a few howlers that should never have happened. Last edited by Mike Beckett; March 21st, 2012 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Trying to type on iPad is are for me!