NX5 replacement in 2012?

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by James Kuhn

David Heath...yes, you're right about the AVCHD Codec, however, once you add a peripheral recorder that issue goes away.........Kind of moot, wouldn't you say?

To an extent - but I don't think an external recorder is ever quite as good as having the desired codec built in. Mounting issues, maybe powering, cabling (an extra place for failure) etc. They're not insurmountable issues - but it's far more elegant just to have the right codec built in.

And the expense. Combine the NX5 and the recorder, and you're a long way to getting something like an XF300 - with all the other benefits it brings. To my mind, the benefit of the NX5 is that it brings in very good results relatively cheaply - if you want better, and can afford it, just spend the extra money on a more upmarket camera from day one.

Originally Posted by Michael Johnston

I got to compare my NX5 to a new Canon XF305 today. To the naked eye, I simply could not tell a difference, even in low light.

I'm surprised to hear that. The XF305 has full raster 1920x1080 chips - the pixel count on the NX5 is only half that (and 1440x810 resolution is what's quoted). I'd expect to easily see that sort of difference on ordinary pictures, at least on a good monitor. As regards codec, then all should give good results on first generation. The problems come down the chain, with any decompression/recompression, such as for editing or transmission. Hence the broadcasters insistence on such as XDCAM422 or AVC-Intra - it's for robustness, not quality at the first generation.

[Ron Evans]

The sensors on the NX5U are a diagonal sensor matrix of around 960 x 1080 or about 1,040,000 each. A full 1920x1080 video pixel matrix is interpolated from these sensors. There are lots of descriptions of how this is done. Essentially each sensor is twice the size of a video pixel. The pixels are created from using data from 4 adjacent sensors. Half the light collected for the pixel in the middle of the sensor and a sum of 1/4 the light from the adjacent 4 pixels. So a full raster 1920x1080 sensor may actually have poorer low light capability as there will be less sensor area because of the connection circuitry. The reason Sony used this approach. The current "R" senors in the consumer cameras go one step further and put the connection circuitry on the back of the sensor to maximize the sensor area. As I have said before my CX700 has lower noise than either the NX5U or the EX3.

Ron Evans

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Ron Evans

The sensors on the NX5U are a diagonal sensor matrix of around 960 x 1080 or about 1,040,000 each.

Almost....... It's best to think of it as two interleaved matrices of 960x540 each - those figures applying to counts from corner to corner. Best analogy is to think of a diagonal tiled floor, with 960x540 white tiles, and 960x540 black. Count them in one fashion and you get 960x1080 (as you say), count in a different way and you get 1960x540! Which is hwy it's best just to say "1 megapixel"!

The cleverness of doing it like this is ease of processing for a 1920x1080 resultant, whilst retaining a fairly large pixel size, and symmetry of resolution horizontally and vertically.

Originally Posted by Ron Evans

The pixels are created from using data from 4 adjacent sensors. Half the light collected for the pixel in the middle of the sensor and a sum of 1/4 the light from the adjacent 4 pixels.

I think that's true for single sensor designs, less so when you have a 3 chip design using this geometry. For the latter note that luminance and chrominance resolutions will be the same (unlike where pixel shift is used).

[Ron Evans]

Yes it does depend on how one looks at the array. My view is 1080 rows with 960 sensors in each row. Though one can also see it as 1920 columns each with 540 sensors. The missing pixels between the 960 sensors on each row are interpolated from the 4 surrounding sensors by taking 1/4 of their light output and then halving the light output from each of the real sensors to arrive at the level for the pixel at that position. In this way the DSP has values for light output in all 1920x1080 locations.It was my understanding that all 3 chips work that way. So each has 1,040,000 effective sensors and interpolated 1920x1080 resolution as a final pixel resolution.

The single chip versions I think have many more sensor sites and also need to extract colour so don't quite work the same way as the color sites are dispersed on the chip.

Ron Evans

[Tom Hardwick]

Compared to a genuine 1920 x 1080 camera (which has twice as many pixels so should be sharper), each pixel on the 1920 x 1080 cam will be less than half the size of those on the NX5 - so the NX5 should be theoretically over a stop better in low light. So just maybe 1 megapixel is a better compromise for 1/3" chips, giving better sensitivity over absolute resolution the design nod.

That's the other beauty of the ClearVid approach - equal horizontal and vertical resolution. The other obvious ways of arranging 1 million pixels for a 1080 system are 1920x540 or 960x1080. Either of those will give uneven resolutions on the axes.

tom.

[James Kuhn]

Tom, Ron, & David...you guys are talking way over my head, but I really like the discussion. I'm learning a great deal, even though I can only understand every second or third word. Heh, heh! Thank you gentlemen.

J.

[Chris Sgaraglino]

One other thing to remember...

Report 1
Due to the flooding in Thailand, Sony has stopped production of the A65, A77, and NEX-7.
As well as Western Digital, Nikon and many others.

Report 2
The Asia News Network has a report that says the Sony and Nikon plants have "no prospect of recovery." Nikon Thailand produced a news release late last week that says "the first floor of all buildings...are presently submerged."

Report 3
Sony has announced that they will be delaying the launch of the upcoming NEX 7 and Reflex Alpha 65 cameras “indefinitely”. The notice comes after record flooding in Thailand. Nikon has also provided an update, although they are still assessing the damages.

Report 4
Sony said it was delaying the launch of products including its NEX-7 camera and the Reflex Alpha 65 indefinitely.

The move comes after the floods forced Sony to shut production at two of its three units in Thailand.

Sony’s output was also hit earlier this year due to the earthquake and tsunami in Japan. – BBC

[John Knight]

THREAD RESURRECTION....

Well, over 15 months later and Sony have come out with several new camera in the EX1 SxS line (PMW-100, 150, 200 etc) and Super 35mm cams (NEX-FS700 etc)

But nothing to replace the aging NX5 ????

The following prediction looks promising:

HD Warrior Blog Archiv My predictions for 2013

"Sony spent most of last year supplying camcorders for almost everyone but need to get back in touch with their core market and produce low noise full spec camcorders for the NX70 users who are delighted with AVCHD 1080 50p using SDHC cards. Sony need to supply an NX5 style camcorder with a 20x constant aperture manual/servo lens with 1/2″ CMOS low noise chips with 2 card slots getting away from SxS and 50Mbps."

[Matt Sharp]

John, I agree with Philip. I'm an NX70 user and have been waiting for an NX5 replacement that's as noiseless in low light as today's consumer camcorders. The 4K version of the NX5 is still a few years off (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...y-ces2013.html) and the new PMW-160/200 are more than I need, although I've been contemplating getting a used EX1R.

[Ron Evans]

For me things missing from my NX5U are better sensors that are not as noisy as the present one, AVCHD 2.0 for 60P and I would like things like spot focus that all my consumer Sony cams have and we use a lot. Not sure if the 150/160 even has the low noise sensors let alone the other things i would like !!! Panasonic and JVC seem to have improved on the NX5U pattern with their latest competitors just wonder if Sony cares.

Ron Evans

[Kyle Root]

I have really enjoyed using my NX5U for the past 2 years. I'd love to see an upgrade for it.

Maybe this will be the year! Hopefully sooner rather than later in 2013 for that matter.

[Greg Clark]

If the NX5U is at least two years old that is an old Camera. Sony needs a new model.

[Stelios Christofides]

I am just wondering if the guys who have the NX5 now are going to replace their camera with the "new "model" if it comes.

stelios

[Chris Harding]

Hi Stelios

Take a look at the EA-50 (has it's own forum now) I now have two and have dumped my Panasonics and I'm delighted that Sony had the sense to bring out a shoulder mount camera for us wedding guys!!

It really has everything that I was looking for in a wedding camera and is lighter too!! Under 2KG ! and the end result is awesome even with the so called stock 18-200 zoom lens .... I couldn't be happier as I now have the ability to do DSLR style creative shots with the big APS-C sensor or use it just as a video camera..best of both worlds ..I was looking at the NX5 as the EX-3 was out of my price range, then the EA-50 arrived.

Really worth a look for weddings!!

Chris

[Greg Clark]

Rolling Shutter and lack of ND would be a severe problem for me with an EA50.