The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof”

Dave Blackhurst · May 9th, 2011, 04:34 PM

Well, that starts to make it interesting, dunnit? Seems like more realistic pricing offhand, and might make this camera a lot more popular. $700 drop certainly puts it almost back on the radar...

Mike Beckett · May 10th, 2011, 04:25 AM

Review from Creative Video in the UK:

Sony HXR-NX70 - the water baby

Phil seems pretty impressed!

Ron Evans · May 10th, 2011, 07:12 AM

Nice review. He picked up the issue I noted with the menus exiting rather than going back to the menu before. Differences to the CX700 are now a little more clear. Gain control, PCM audio, UB, histogram. Starts to look really attractive for me. Would match up nicely to my NX5U.

Ron Evans

Kyle Root · May 11th, 2011, 07:24 PM

I think this is going to be a great cam at a very good price which will match up nicely with the NX5U.

I'm waiting for B&H to let me know they are in stock!

At $2,799, with 96 GB built in memory and the size factor make it a great travel camera as well, since it's a good bit smaller than the NX5... less likely to draw attention.

Chris Clifford · May 17th, 2011, 08:59 AM

isn't the NX70's sensor and lens the same as the MC50u?
So image performance should be identical between the two, right?

I really wish Sony would offer a firmware upgrade for the mc50 which would allowed progressive shooting and the ability to control gain, shutter and iris at the same time.

While being able to shoot in full manual mode (unlike the mc50) the absence of physical control is a little disappointing. The lens ring is nice but I wish they had allowed better access to other parameters like they did on the little control knob on the MC50. If they were limited to 3 parameters I would have preferred gain over zoom since zoom is already on the camera body.

Dave Blackhurst · May 17th, 2011, 01:47 PM

Lens MAY be similar, but this is a new CMOS chip - probably the same as the CX560/700. Sony managed to squeeze 60P into these latest generation sensors, I suspect the last generation couldn't quite handle the data rate... although it sure would be nice if there were firmware updates to "almost new" cameras!

Kris Zimbelman · May 17th, 2011, 03:58 PM

so how does it compare to the AG-AC130 and the Canon XF-100? All of these are about $3000. Which one would you want to own and why? I realize the only one that is out right now is the XF- 100, so your basicly just comparing specifications and hypothesizing.

Ron Evans · May 17th, 2011, 09:13 PM

If you need a weather resistant camera for mainly automatic operation with the ability to easily look like a consumer camera to avoid attention then the HXR NX70 is the choice. If you need a single lens version of a pro camera then the other two will be better choices in my opinion. The Panasonic has a 20 x zoom and both the Panasonic and the Canon have dual card capabilities for dual record and copy. They will however always look like a pro camera.

The extra features that keep coming to light about the NX70 look good but it is still like my CX700 in a better case with more of the firmware features turned on ( that I am sure in Sony fashion are in my CX700 !!!). At almost 2.5 times the price of the CX700 I still think its expensive. The others two are single chip versions of the 3 chip pro models and are more in line for their price I think.

Ron Evans

Kris Zimbelman · May 18th, 2011, 12:38 AM

AG-AC130, which incorporate high-sensitivity 1/3”, full-HD 2.2 megapixel 3-MOS imagers to capture native 1920 x 1080 resolution images, with a new, wider 21X HD zoom lens

doesn't this mean 3-MOS imagers three separate chips?

Mike Beckett · May 18th, 2011, 01:35 AM

I had thought the Panasonic AG-AC130 was going to be at a higher price point than these compact cams? In the UK, it looks like it will be around the same price as the Sony NX5.

I didn't get on well with my Panasonic HMC40. My needs are for a compact, travel-capable camera with integrated or detachable XLR capabilities, and a good wide angle lens.

Currently, my options are the Canon XF-100, and the forthcoming Sony NX-70. I ruled out the JVC HM100, as the LCD and EVF are much the same as the HMC40, and it isn't a very wide lens. Over time, I have come to detest wide angle adapters.

I'm not doing this for a living, so the XF-100 pretty soon becomes expensive, with proper CF cards not being cheap. The NX-70 with its built-in 96GB of storage, cheaper SDHC cards, and dump-to-hard-disk feature ticks all the boxes, and the weatherproofing is a bonus. The Sony also comes with a shotgun mic, and breaks down to a more discrete size than the JVC.

I've stuck my neck out, and am waiting for the Sony to arrive with my UK dealer. Hopefully it will be a very wet summer in Ireland!

Chris Clifford · May 18th, 2011, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

Lens MAY be similar, but this is a new CMOS chip - probably the same as the CX560/700. Sony managed to squeeze 60P into these latest generation sensors, I suspect the last generation couldn't quite handle the data rate... although it sure would be nice if there were firmware updates to "almost new" cameras!

How can you tell it's a different sensor?
All of the specs that I've seen appear to be the same:
1/2.88" Exmor R CMOS Sensor
BIONZ Image processor.
Sony G lens 37mm
10x optical zoom.

I sent an email to Sony asking if they would update the firmware for the MC50. They said they had no plans to do so. Disappointing. Bad form Sony.
And there appears to be a pretty big push among VG10 owners to get the same firmware upgrade.
It looks like 2010 was the wrong year to buy a Sony prosumer Camera. I hope that planned obsolescence doesn't become part of Sony's Style.

Ron Evans · May 18th, 2011, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kris Zimbelman

AG-AC130, which incorporate high-sensitivity 1/3”, full-HD 2.2 megapixel 3-MOS imagers to capture native 1920 x 1080 resolution images, with a new, wider 21X HD zoom lens

doesn't this mean 3-MOS imagers three separate chips?

Absolutely correct and is the only one of that group. I was thinking more of the AC130/160 as the same grouping as the Sony AX2000/NX5 in that the differences between the two models have the same features differences like HD/SDi etc. If I were to rank regardless of price it would be the consumer cams ( like CX700) then the NX70 then a gap to the XF100 then close the AX2000 and AC130 then the AC160 and NX5U etc. I think the biggest difference between the CX700/NX70 and the others is the lens assembly moving from a 37mm to around the 72mm size. If there is not much difference in street price I would go for the AC160 or the NX5U. When I bought my NX5U the difference in Canada was only $200 between the AX2000 and the NX5U. With a bigger battery, mic, FMU128 capability and the extra features the decision was easy.

The water proofing etc are of real value in lots of situations but in nice weather in automatic operation I expect the NX70 will be identical to the CX700 . If you want to be discreet in bad weather then the NX70 is the answer. If you mainly video indoors then the others will be much better choices I think. At $2000 street price the extra features over the CX700 would make the NX70 a very attractive camera.

Ron Evans

Dave Blackhurst · May 18th, 2011, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Clifford

How can you tell it's a different sensor?
All of the specs that I've seen appear to be the same:
1/2.88" Exmor R CMOS Sensor
BIONZ Image processor.
Sony G lens 37mm
10x optical zoom.

I sent an email to Sony asking if they would update the firmware for the MC50. They said they had no plans to do so. Disappointing. Bad form Sony.
And there appears to be a pretty big push among VG10 owners to get the same firmware upgrade.
It looks like 2010 was the wrong year to buy a Sony prosumer Camera. I hope that planned obsolescence doesn't become part of Sony's Style.

Check ALL of the specs -
CX700 - sensor gross pixels 6650/ effective 6140, lens range 26.3-263mm
CX550 - (effective?) 4500, 29.6-298mm

The specs you listed are probably the same for just about any Sony camera from the last few years - physics and design economies dictate the sensor size/dimension, but the number of pixels typically increases year over year (although Canon went the OTHER direction this year, with improved low light performance) The lens range is entirely different than the FILTER size (37mm)... although the lenses "may" be identical, with other minor changes in the lens block resulting in slightly different lens range.

SO, as I stated, the MC50 and the CX700/CX560/NX70 are using different CMOS sensors... and it's likely the CX700 and NX70 share a lens block assembly that differs to some degree from the CX550, not to mention the processing modules have probably changed/improved. It's not "planned obsolesence" - in the consumer space, marketing considerations dictate "new and improved" (at least on paper) models be released EVERY 12 months like clockwork, whether the actual product is radically different (changeover from the CMOS in the SR11/12 to the Exmor R of the "500" series), or the color change and minor feature creep from the HC7 to the HC9... If you buy and sell right, you just upgrade if the new model justifies it... which brings us to...

In general, from what I've been able to find, there are reports of some lens distortion issues with the CX700, and it is not quite as good in low light as the CX550... I'm waiting to see more reports, but the CX550 is working just fine, and for 60P I'm looking at Sony's P&S line (TX100 & HX9) for the moment - less $$$, and while it's a much smaller sensor, it does a pretty good job with video from the WX10 sample I got cheap...

Sony typically does not release firmware or updates unless there's a HUGE hue and cry - they did update the NEX3/5, and rumors swirl about a VG10 update, but usually unless it's a "bug fix" that happens to include a few unlocked features as a peace offering, it doesn't happen (and I'd venture to say that's TYPICAL for all the mfrs, not just Sony).

I've thought that there'd be a good market in "hacking" Sony firmware (ala magic lantern/GH13), and offering "unlocks" of features and upgraded performance, but of course there would probably be other "side effects", and I'm guessing because Sony is widely regarded as a "consumer" camera, there's little interest in such a project... I reverse engineered the hardware to figure out the hidden LANC and other features on the A/V and to some degree the AiShoe, but the firmware is a bit above my current ability to research - Sony doesn't release enough engineering information to work with...

I concur with Ron that the NX70 would "fit" better by taking over the slot currently occupied by the FX7, and at about the same price point - I still suspect they may release a "consumer" NX70, but with the earthquake/tsunami/nuclear disater, I think they're lucky to be producing current models (that WX10 I mentioned I picked up cheap is a 2011 model, and they ALREADY discontinued it, no doubt to conserve sensors for other models!). When comparing to say the XA10, the NX70 seems a "tad" overpriced, but totally different "features", so if you need to "dunk" your rig or use it in a dust storm...

Chris Clifford · May 18th, 2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

Check ALL of the specs -
CX700 - sensor gross pixels 6650/ effective 6140, lens range 26.3-263mm
CX550 - (effective?) 4500, 29.6-298mm

Dave,
Thanks for taking the time to post such a detailed reply. Much appreciated.
I didn't realize that the pixel count was increased again.

I'm just suffering from "interlace anxiety" - probably over reacting. I went out last year in a frenzy and bought 2 CX550s & 2 MC50s at the same time when my DV cameras started dying. I just assumed that there would be some sort of progressive options (even 720) since my 10 year old sony TRV900s had the option to shoot progressive.
But in hindsight, given the line-up that i was choosing from and my budget, I probably would have made the same choice.

Most of the stuff that I do will be delivered on Blu-ray and for the web I don't need 1080 so I can downscale to make the footage progressive.

The NX70 looks really attractive. If they've improved the low-light performance it really could be a game changer.

Thanks again
c

Dave Blackhurst · May 18th, 2011, 04:20 PM

Well, at the moment I'm keeping my CX550's for the foreseeable future... I've added an A55 SLT for certain things, and a TX100 or HX9 will probably be filling the last slot...

I suspect the increase in pixels may have resulted in worse low light performance in the CX700/560 than the CX550/MC50 is capable of... but until I have hands on one of the new cams, no way to know. I like the idea of 60P and have seen some impressive progressive video shot from a TX100... and the testing I've done with the new sensor in the P&S cameras was pretty good in low light, although not as good as the CX550 in low lux mode.

I'm looking at the NX70, particularly if the price comes down or a good deal on a lightly used one comes along. Haven't had a "big cam" (not that the NX is "big"...) in a long time - the little monsters do fine for what I want them to do!

May 9th, 2011, 04:34 PM	#46
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof” Well, that starts to make it interesting, dunnit? Seems like more realistic pricing offhand, and might make this camera a lot more popular. $700 drop certainly puts it almost back on the radar...

May 10th, 2011, 04:25 AM	#47
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof” Review from Creative Video in the UK: Sony HXR-NX70 - the water baby Phil seems pretty impressed!

May 10th, 2011, 07:12 AM	#48
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof” Nice review. He picked up the issue I noted with the menus exiting rather than going back to the menu before. Differences to the CX700 are now a little more clear. Gain control, PCM audio, UB, histogram. Starts to look really attractive for me. Would match up nicely to my NX5U. Ron Evans

May 11th, 2011, 07:24 PM	#49
Kyle Root Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Decatur, AL Posts: 883	Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof” I think this is going to be a great cam at a very good price which will match up nicely with the NX5U. I'm waiting for B&H to let me know they are in stock! At $2,799, with 96 GB built in memory and the size factor make it a great travel camera as well, since it's a good bit smaller than the NX5... less likely to draw attention. __________________ Kyle KR Productions; www.kyleroot.com

May 17th, 2011, 08:59 AM	#50
Chris Clifford New Boot Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: NY, NY Posts: 7	Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof” isn't the NX70's sensor and lens the same as the MC50u? So image performance should be identical between the two, right? I really wish Sony would offer a firmware upgrade for the mc50 which would allowed progressive shooting and the ability to control gain, shutter and iris at the same time. While being able to shoot in full manual mode (unlike the mc50) the absence of physical control is a little disappointing. The lens ring is nice but I wish they had allowed better access to other parameters like they did on the little control knob on the MC50. If they were limited to 3 parameters I would have preferred gain over zoom since zoom is already on the camera body.

May 17th, 2011, 01:47 PM	#51
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof” Lens MAY be similar, but this is a new CMOS chip - probably the same as the CX560/700. Sony managed to squeeze 60P into these latest generation sensors, I suspect the last generation couldn't quite handle the data rate... although it sure would be nice if there were firmware updates to "almost new" cameras!

May 17th, 2011, 03:58 PM	#52
Kris Zimbelman Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Edmond Posts: 139	Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof” so how does it compare to the AG-AC130 and the Canon XF-100? All of these are about $3000. Which one would you want to own and why? I realize the only one that is out right now is the XF- 100, so your basicly just comparing specifications and hypothesizing. __________________ 73003

May 17th, 2011, 09:13 PM	#53
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof” If you need a weather resistant camera for mainly automatic operation with the ability to easily look like a consumer camera to avoid attention then the HXR NX70 is the choice. If you need a single lens version of a pro camera then the other two will be better choices in my opinion. The Panasonic has a 20 x zoom and both the Panasonic and the Canon have dual card capabilities for dual record and copy. They will however always look like a pro camera. The extra features that keep coming to light about the NX70 look good but it is still like my CX700 in a better case with more of the firmware features turned on ( that I am sure in Sony fashion are in my CX700 !!!). At almost 2.5 times the price of the CX700 I still think its expensive. The others two are single chip versions of the 3 chip pro models and are more in line for their price I think. Ron Evans

May 18th, 2011, 12:38 AM	#54
Kris Zimbelman Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Edmond Posts: 139	Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof” AG-AC130, which incorporate high-sensitivity 1/3”, full-HD 2.2 megapixel 3-MOS imagers to capture native 1920 x 1080 resolution images, with a new, wider 21X HD zoom lens doesn't this mean 3-MOS imagers three separate chips? __________________ 73003

May 18th, 2011, 01:35 AM	#55
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof” I had thought the Panasonic AG-AC130 was going to be at a higher price point than these compact cams? In the UK, it looks like it will be around the same price as the Sony NX5. I didn't get on well with my Panasonic HMC40. My needs are for a compact, travel-capable camera with integrated or detachable XLR capabilities, and a good wide angle lens. Currently, my options are the Canon XF-100, and the forthcoming Sony NX-70. I ruled out the JVC HM100, as the LCD and EVF are much the same as the HMC40, and it isn't a very wide lens. Over time, I have come to detest wide angle adapters. I'm not doing this for a living, so the XF-100 pretty soon becomes expensive, with proper CF cards not being cheap. The NX-70 with its built-in 96GB of storage, cheaper SDHC cards, and dump-to-hard-disk feature ticks all the boxes, and the weatherproofing is a bonus. The Sony also comes with a shotgun mic, and breaks down to a more discrete size than the JVC. I've stuck my neck out, and am waiting for the Sony to arrive with my UK dealer. Hopefully it will be a very wet summer in Ireland!

May 18th, 2011, 04:20 PM	#60
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: The new SONY HXR NX70 “Water & Dust proof” Well, at the moment I'm keeping my CX550's for the foreseeable future... I've added an A55 SLT for certain things, and a TX100 or HX9 will probably be filling the last slot... I suspect the increase in pixels may have resulted in worse low light performance in the CX700/560 than the CX550/MC50 is capable of... but until I have hands on one of the new cams, no way to know. I like the idea of 60P and have seen some impressive progressive video shot from a TX100... and the testing I've done with the new sensor in the P&S cameras was pretty good in low light, although not as good as the CX550 in low lux mode. I'm looking at the NX70, particularly if the price comes down or a good deal on a lightly used one comes along. Haven't had a "big cam" (not that the NX is "big"...) in a long time - the little monsters do fine for what I want them to do!