Sony AX2000 and Fx7: shots in full light: what is better?

Adriano Moroni · December 7th, 2010, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Evans

NX5U is a better match for the EX3
Ron Evans

I'm sorry but I like to understand fine. Do you mean that NX5U with good setting can give the same image performance than EX3/EX1?
Thanks

Ron Evans · December 7th, 2010, 08:31 PM

NO, the NX5U is not up to the EX1 or EX3 but can intermix in a multicam just fine which is what we do. The EX3 is used for all the closeup shots, NX5U for mid shots and the XR500 full stage fixed. Colour balance is good between them on standard Sony indoor WB preset so editing is much easier.

Unfortunately one gets what one pays for as usual !!!!

Much like you, video is an obsessive retirement hobby and though I get paid for some things the net is at my expense so as much as I would like an EX the NX5U will have to do for now.

Ron Evans

Aaron Holmes · December 7th, 2010, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Evans

...the NX5U will have to do for now.

And, really, it's not *that* bad... ;->

Adriano Moroni · December 8th, 2010, 06:52 AM

A consideration:
do you think MPEG2 is a codec with long life? I think it is a mature codec, may a be little bit obsolete. I think AVCHD is better and it will be a codec with longer life. Is it a wrong consideration?

Ron Evans · December 8th, 2010, 07:51 AM

All SD DVD's use MPEG2 codec so it will be around for some time yet. Lots of Sony pro cameras use MPEG2 so it will be around for some time too. AVCHD technically is a better codec but it depends on how it is implemented.

The NX5U has some real advantages in that one can record HD to the FMU128 and SD in MPEG2 to a flash card at the same time. This way one can make a quick SD DVD from the card data and still have an AVCHD file. I think TMPGenc will make a better SD file from the AVCHD file but if one needs to be quick it is a feature.

My wishes for it are in two areas. I would like the video noise level to be lower than it is and would like some of the features that are on the consumer cameras like spot focus and spot exposure for instance that are both very handy functions. The NX5U has the same touch LCD but really doesn't exploit this at all. It does have GPS but unlike the consumer cameras does not set the clock with GPS but just records the data. I think this feature would be handy for your projects. IF you had the NX5U and CX550 you would know exactly where and when you took the clips.

Ron Evans

Adriano Moroni · December 9th, 2010, 08:17 AM

Thanks to you for your exhaustive replies.
A last question please:
if I will shot at a remote area where there isn't electricity and I will have to make backups every time of flash memory to an external portable hard drive, will it be possible to do it with both EX1 and NX5?
thanks

Ron Evans · December 9th, 2010, 09:39 AM

If you have the NX5U with the FMU128 flash memory AND SDHC cards installed you will make immediate backups. You will have about 14 hours available on the FMU128 and use as many SDHC cards as you want to get to the 14 hours and get two copies. One set on the FMU and the other on SDHC cards. The FMU 128 connects to a PC like an external USB drive for backups to the PC. The CX550 will backup directly to a USB portable drive. It may even take the SDHC cards from the NX5U and back them up too. Not sure about that but would be worth looking into.

Ron Evans

Adriano Moroni · December 10th, 2010, 12:50 PM

Ron,
you are an expert filmaker and I 'm a curious man. So that I'd like to ask you a question. If you had to use both, NX5U and CX550 in AUTO (without configuring image settings), do you see any differences of image? If there are some differrences are they about chromatism, colours, sharpness? Or is it hard to distinguish their quality of image.
thanks

Ron Evans · December 10th, 2010, 05:16 PM

I don't have a CX550, mine is XR500 the series before, one year older so I can only give you a view from my cameras. In straight auto the XR500 appears better than the NX5U in good light !!!! I know this is not really believable but I think the auto exposure and particularly the auto focus are better in the XR500 than the NX5U. I find getting pin sharp focus is difficult on the NX5U and easy on the XR500. The value of the NX5U is in the manual controls for video and audio. IF you are going to operate in auto and not worry about audio then the XR/CX series may well provide a better picture, they certainly have lower video noise even against the EX3 in my experience. A XR/CX with full manual controls including audio would be a great camera. Which means Sony is never going to do that !!!!!

Ron Evans

Aaron Holmes · December 10th, 2010, 10:21 PM

The shallower a camera's depth of field, the less likely it would seem that the auto-focus would focus on exactly what you had in mind. I've been wondering whether that's why the smaller-sensor cameras (e.g., the consumer models, the Panny HMC15x, etc.) all seem to get so much praise for their auto-focus.

My B cam is an HDR-CX12 (the generation before your XR500), and it puts out a wonderful, ultra-sharp image in good light. However, unlike your Exmor R-equipped XR500, my CX12 is totally crippled by even the slightest light shortage. Thus, I tend to bring it out only when good light is assured.

The NX5 doesn't seem to have a lot going on w.r.t. noise reduction. Beyond what the larger sensor block offers in the way of sensitivity, the NX5 appears to be mostly saved (in low-light conditions) by the ability of the newer, higher-bitrate codec to keep up with the noise (because noise is bad, but "sticky" noise caused by insufficient bandwidth is HORRIBLE! :))

Best,
Aaron

Ron Evans · December 10th, 2010, 11:38 PM

I tend to agree Aaron but the sensor size of the XR500 and the NX5U is the same, about 1/3". The lens and how the sensor is used in conjunction with the lens is of course the main difference and could be some of the difference. The noise difference is very evident to me as all my projects are theatre in low light or high contrast. In this environment the XR500 has a lot less noise even against the EX3, which is why I use as an unattended camera with auto exposure on AE shift -4 !!! . Even when the stage goes to black and it gains up it still has less noise than the NX5U which is on full manual exposure. In good light when the NX5U can keep gain down to 0 or +3 then the image depth of the 3 chip shows in picture quality. When it gets darker and needs 6 or 9db of gain the XR500 is superior by some way. To be fair the NX5U is still better than my FX1 !!!!

Ron Evans

December 8th, 2010, 06:52 AM	#34
Adriano Moroni Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rome Italy Posts: 676	A consideration: do you think MPEG2 is a codec with long life? I think it is a mature codec, may a be little bit obsolete. I think AVCHD is better and it will be a codec with longer life. Is it a wrong consideration? __________________ A lonesome traveler looking for lost tribes around the world: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdv...DrZCaaw/videos Last edited by Adriano Moroni; December 8th, 2010 at 07:36 AM.

December 9th, 2010, 08:17 AM	#36
Adriano Moroni Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rome Italy Posts: 676	Thanks to you for your exhaustive replies. A last question please: if I will shot at a remote area where there isn't electricity and I will have to make backups every time of flash memory to an external portable hard drive, will it be possible to do it with both EX1 and NX5? thanks __________________ A lonesome traveler looking for lost tribes around the world: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdv...DrZCaaw/videos

December 10th, 2010, 12:50 PM	#38
Adriano Moroni Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rome Italy Posts: 676	Ron, you are an expert filmaker and I 'm a curious man. So that I'd like to ask you a question. If you had to use both, NX5U and CX550 in AUTO (without configuring image settings), do you see any differences of image? If there are some differrences are they about chromatism, colours, sharpness? Or is it hard to distinguish their quality of image. thanks __________________ A lonesome traveler looking for lost tribes around the world: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdv...DrZCaaw/videos Last edited by Adriano Moroni; December 10th, 2010 at 02:46 PM.

December 10th, 2010, 10:21 PM	#40
Aaron Holmes Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 145	The shallower a camera's depth of field, the less likely it would seem that the auto-focus would focus on exactly what you had in mind. I've been wondering whether that's why the smaller-sensor cameras (e.g., the consumer models, the Panny HMC15x, etc.) all seem to get so much praise for their auto-focus. My B cam is an HDR-CX12 (the generation before your XR500), and it puts out a wonderful, ultra-sharp image in good light. However, unlike your Exmor R-equipped XR500, my CX12 is totally crippled by even the slightest light shortage. Thus, I tend to bring it out only when good light is assured. The NX5 doesn't seem to have a lot going on w.r.t. noise reduction. Beyond what the larger sensor block offers in the way of sensitivity, the NX5 appears to be mostly saved (in low-light conditions) by the ability of the newer, higher-bitrate codec to keep up with the noise (because noise is bad, but "sticky" noise caused by insufficient bandwidth is HORRIBLE! :)) Best, Aaron __________________ Software Engineer, Video Hobbyist -- Sony FDR-AX100, HDR-CX12, Miller DS10/Solo, Premiere CS5.5, DYMO DiscPainter, 2010 Mac Pro 3.33GHz 6c

December 7th, 2010, 08:31 PM	#32
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	NO, the NX5U is not up to the EX1 or EX3 but can intermix in a multicam just fine which is what we do. The EX3 is used for all the closeup shots, NX5U for mid shots and the XR500 full stage fixed. Colour balance is good between them on standard Sony indoor WB preset so editing is much easier. Unfortunately one gets what one pays for as usual !!!! Much like you, video is an obsessive retirement hobby and though I get paid for some things the net is at my expense so as much as I would like an EX the NX5U will have to do for now. Ron Evans

December 8th, 2010, 07:51 AM	#35
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	All SD DVD's use MPEG2 codec so it will be around for some time yet. Lots of Sony pro cameras use MPEG2 so it will be around for some time too. AVCHD technically is a better codec but it depends on how it is implemented. The NX5U has some real advantages in that one can record HD to the FMU128 and SD in MPEG2 to a flash card at the same time. This way one can make a quick SD DVD from the card data and still have an AVCHD file. I think TMPGenc will make a better SD file from the AVCHD file but if one needs to be quick it is a feature. My wishes for it are in two areas. I would like the video noise level to be lower than it is and would like some of the features that are on the consumer cameras like spot focus and spot exposure for instance that are both very handy functions. The NX5U has the same touch LCD but really doesn't exploit this at all. It does have GPS but unlike the consumer cameras does not set the clock with GPS but just records the data. I think this feature would be handy for your projects. IF you had the NX5U and CX550 you would know exactly where and when you took the clips. Ron Evans

December 9th, 2010, 09:39 AM	#37
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	If you have the NX5U with the FMU128 flash memory AND SDHC cards installed you will make immediate backups. You will have about 14 hours available on the FMU128 and use as many SDHC cards as you want to get to the 14 hours and get two copies. One set on the FMU and the other on SDHC cards. The FMU 128 connects to a PC like an external USB drive for backups to the PC. The CX550 will backup directly to a USB portable drive. It may even take the SDHC cards from the NX5U and back them up too. Not sure about that but would be worth looking into. Ron Evans

December 10th, 2010, 05:16 PM	#39
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	I don't have a CX550, mine is XR500 the series before, one year older so I can only give you a view from my cameras. In straight auto the XR500 appears better than the NX5U in good light !!!! I know this is not really believable but I think the auto exposure and particularly the auto focus are better in the XR500 than the NX5U. I find getting pin sharp focus is difficult on the NX5U and easy on the XR500. The value of the NX5U is in the manual controls for video and audio. IF you are going to operate in auto and not worry about audio then the XR/CX series may well provide a better picture, they certainly have lower video noise even against the EX3 in my experience. A XR/CX with full manual controls including audio would be a great camera. Which means Sony is never going to do that !!!!! Ron Evans

December 10th, 2010, 11:38 PM	#41
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	I tend to agree Aaron but the sensor size of the XR500 and the NX5U is the same, about 1/3". The lens and how the sensor is used in conjunction with the lens is of course the main difference and could be some of the difference. The noise difference is very evident to me as all my projects are theatre in low light or high contrast. In this environment the XR500 has a lot less noise even against the EX3, which is why I use as an unattended camera with auto exposure on AE shift -4 !!! . Even when the stage goes to black and it gains up it still has less noise than the NX5U which is on full manual exposure. In good light when the NX5U can keep gain down to 0 or +3 then the image depth of the 3 chip shows in picture quality. When it gets darker and needs 6 or 9db of gain the XR500 is superior by some way. To be fair the NX5U is still better than my FX1 !!!! Ron Evans