EX1 or NX5 - what is your opinion?

[Thomas Schwenger]

Hi all,

first post here!

I'm a bit in a dilemma, maybe the community can give me some input to direct my decision:
I'm planning several documentaries that shall be broadcasted (in Germany). I currently have sold my HVX, due to media cost, but own a 5D and a 7D with a lot of glass. I still feel the need for a dedicated video cam, for sound, recording times and DOF (I need some DOF, that a DSLR can only provide stopped down -> challenge under low light conditions).
So I'm currently hesitating between a EX-1R and a NX5. From the clips I've seen so far (on vimeo etc. only, unfortunately) and my quick hands on at a seller, I'm still undecided. Media cost (SxS or SDHC) is now irrelevant as SDHC is officially supported by Sony (and it seems to work fine with the updated firmware).
The other pros and cons of both are rather known to me, esp. because of this great forum. The NX5 is tempting for the price, but using FCP, I fear the post problems reported by some members and I don't know if the stations will accept AVCHD material (for non-news stuff).

Do you have any experience you can share?
Thomas

[Perrone Ford]

What is the potential of using the NX5 with a Nanoflash? Similar cost to an EX1, but vastly superior codec.

[Heath McKnight]

I've been using the EX1 for about two years now, and it's by far my favorite camera that's priced under $15,000. But those SxS cards are pricey, and that's a consideration. But I really like the NX5U, after spending a week with it, and will likely be getting one in the coming weeks or months. Because it's more affordable.

Sure, I'll take the EX1/r over the NX5U, but that's another $1500 to $2000 for a similar camera.

Another is editing--you can easily edit with both cameras in all major edit systems, though it's more "native" in FCP with the EX1. For the NX5U, you transcode it as ProRes 422, which can make those clips very, very large.

It may just come down to cost for you, along with storage/drive space, etc.

Heath

[Perrone Ford]

Heath, are you unaware you can shoot to SDHC with the EX1? It makes the media issue a non-issue.

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

I've been using the EX1 for about two years now, and it's by far my favorite camera that's priced under $15,000. But those SxS cards are pricey, and that's a consideration. But I really like the NX5U, after spending a week with it, and will likely be getting one in the coming weeks or months. Because it's more affordable.

Sure, I'll take the EX1/r over the NX5U, but that's another $1500 to $2000 for a similar camera.

Another is editing--you can easily edit with both cameras in all major edit systems, though it's more "native" in FCP with the EX1. For the NX5U, you transcode it as ProRes 422, which can make those clips very, very large.

It may just come down to cost for you, along with storage/drive space, etc.

Heath

[Heath McKnight]

I'm not up on the latest on the EX1/R, so good to know! I did take a look at the specs--do they use adapters? I may have been ignoring new technologies on the EX1; then again, it's work's camera, so I doubt they'd jump on any new accessories.

Still, at the end of the day, the EX1/R's quality is better in some regards to the NX5U, but the price is still higher.

Heath

[Heath McKnight]

Perrone,

Just saw this:

Sony Product Detail Page - MEADSD01

Man, I need to get back in the game! (wink) Thanks for the head's up! Of course, where was this two years ago when my last job had me putting together an EX1 package to shoot this film we did (December Movie).

Heath

[Jeff Wallace]

Hi Thomas,

I'm just bought a Sony Ex1R a few weeks ago and I couldn't be happier. I did tons of research, and like you, I was considering an NX5u. But if you read the NX5u forum, people are having all kinds of problems with this camera and I don't have time to wait for all the bugs to be fixed, or to be sending the camera back to Sony for repairs. Bottom line... why settle for second best?

The Ex1R is my dream camera.. it's expensive but I think in the long run it's worth the price. I can't say anything bad about it so far.

You can also buy SDHC adapters like the MxM which brings the cost of media to reasonable levels.

If you have the budget, I would highly recommend the Ex1R.

[Perrone Ford]

I've been shooting on SDHC for over a year and a half. In fact, I don't even know where the SxS card is that came with the camera. I don't think I've ever used it after I moved to SDHC.

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

Perrone,

Just saw this:

Sony Product Detail Page - MEADSD01

Man, I need to get back in the game! (wink) Thanks for the head's up! Of course, where was this two years ago when my last job had me putting together an EX1 package to shoot this film we did (December Movie).

Heath

[Heath McKnight]

That's awesome. I don't think my current employer knew that, either. The only thing I ever used with the EX1, accessory-wise, has been two Firestore units, but I had to record in, essentially, HDV mode.

Heath

[Heath McKnight]

Not to get too off topic, but I saw this ad here:

RAW SxSxSDHC Memory Adapter-Hoodman Corporation

And I remember seeing that, but not being able to convince my old (or current) boss to buy it. Man, I'm suffering from CRS!

Heath

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

Not to get too off topic, but I saw this ad here:

RAW SxSxSDHC Memory Adapter-Hoodman Corporation

And I remember seeing that, but not being able to convince my old (or current) boss to buy it. Man, I'm suffering from CRS!

Heath

Hoodman has adapters, M&R has adapters, and Sony's own adapter should be on the market soon.

I have absolutely no use for SxS cards any more. They used to be necessary for overcranking, but not that Sony has enabled the full speed on the data bus, that's not a problem any more. Update to the newest firmware, and SDHC can do everything SxS can. Best deal ever. 1hr of video for $40.

[Heath McKnight]

You're right, best deal ever!

So, it's ultimately up to you, Thomas. If you can, try out both cameras at a dealer and see how they work.

Heath

[Thomas Schwenger]

Thanks for your input. For me, the decision comes down to the editing. From my experience with my little consumer AVCHD cam, I hate the workflow (even if I preview the files with movist and transcode only the good ones via clipwrapper, to avoid log & transfer in FCP).

So one more question regarding XDCAM workflow: Do I need to transcode XDCAM or can FCP (6.02) edit it natively - I Know there are the presets for XDCAM but I never have used them?
This may mean for doc shooting to pay upfront more for the camera but saving many hours (time=money) in log & transfer...

[Tom Hardwick]

Thing to remember is that the EX has chips of twice the surface area of the NX. This means that it'll be cleaner and quieter in the dark and that you won't have such noticeable diffraction problems when you use the iris range. You'll also have differential focus on a lot of your shots - with the NX's tiny chips you've got to really work to get the same effect.

Of course the 13x zoom on the EX is the same size as the 20x zoom on the NX, and this all has to do with the chip sizes.

tom.

[Heath McKnight]

Thomas,

It's the same as AVCHD--you transfer your data off the card(s), then use FCP's Log and Transfer to convert to editable QuickTime clips. Unlike AVCHD, you don't need to use ProRes 422, so your clips are about the same size as the data. Ie, 3 GB of data equals about 3 GB of clips, in terms of XDCAM EX footage.

Tom,

Of course--you're talking about a large amount of small pixels on a small chip vs. same amount of larger pixels on a larger chip. You'll always get better results in low light shooting. Of course, 1/3" or 1/2" sensors on DV/NTSC cameras will always do well because they're dealing with a few hundred thousand larger pixels.

Heath