Sony HXR-NX5U and HDR-AX2000 Camcorder

[Robert Turchick]

So the one thing I really notice is the 4:2:2 color space for both cameras...think that would make a big enough difference to ditch the Panny 150? I think if I did, the NX5U with the recorder would be the next logical step up. And the 20x lens would be useful as I seem to always run out of zoom with Panny's 13x. BUT I love how wide the Panny is! Arrrrgh!

[Paulo Teixeira]

B&H has the price of the HXRNX5U set to $4,499.95 which is what I was expecting. I'd say they'll probably price the AX2000 to around $3,000.

[Ethan Cooper]

I'm a cheapskate and always look to the cheaper model first. Here's what I'm seeing on the AX2000:

pros:
1.5 lux
4:2:2 (avchd does 4:2:2?)
Uses the batteries I already own
Onboard XLR's

cons:
can't use the SSD storage
no 720p 60 mode for overcranking
no PCM audio??
no built-in GPS function
no SMPTE Time Code I/O
no SDI

$1500 less than the NX5u ($2300 less if you actually want to use the SSD storage)

I guess if you need SDI for the type of work you do the $1500 premium is pretty much standard for what you usually pay for that option but for what I use a camera for I think I'm going with the AX2000 if I end up getting either.

Is there something else I'm missing that separates the two?

**EDIT**
According to Adam Wilt, what the AX2000 lacks is as follows:

* No 720p recording.
* No linear uncompressed audio (Dolby AC-3 only).
* No FMU capability; thus no simultaneous recording, of course.
* No GPS, timecode setting, or date recording.
* No ability to be upgraded to 60i/50i switchability.
* No SDI / HD-SDI.
* No TC LINK.
* No B&W EVF mode; macro focus; high-speed zoom; smooth-transitioning gain and white-balance; hyper gain; viewfinder markers and safety zones; numerical zoom display and focus distance display in feet; black level, black gamma, knee, and color depth adjustments; manual white balance setting; colorbars with tone; individually switchable front & rear tally lamps; shutter angle display; hour meter; TC reset via remote control./li>
* Fewer tweaks for color modes, gammas, and detail settings.

[Michael Murie]

Originally Posted by Robert Turchick

So the one thing I really notice is the 4:2:2 color space for both cameras...think that would make a big enough difference to ditch the Panny 150? I think if I did, the NX5U with the recorder would be the next logical step up. And the 20x lens would be useful as I seem to always run out of zoom with Panny's 13x. BUT I love how wide the Panny is! Arrrrgh!

When you say "both" are you talking about the AX2000 and the NX5U, or the EX1R and the NX5U?

Though the NX5U and AX2000 image processing is working at 4:2:2, the write-up on the NXCAM I read says that 4:2:2 is out the HD-SDI link, so if it's not 4:2:2 out the HDMI, then the AX2000 doesn't really do 4:2:2 as it lacks the HD-SDI port.

The AVCHD files are still 4:2:0, so you have to use some other recording device to get the 4:2:2 data...

[Brent Ethington]

btw - Sony's Business web site (Sony | For Business | HDR-AX2000) shows the HDR-AX2000 with a list price of $3,199 (not the $3,500 as listed in the press release)

[Michael Murie]

Originally Posted by Ethan Cooper

cons:
can't use the SSD storage
no 720p 60 mode for overcranking
no PCM audio??
no built-in GPS function
no SMPTE Time Code I/O
no SDI

Is there something else I'm missing that separates the two?

This is the list I have (from Adam Wilt)

cons:
No FMU capability; no simultaneous recording
No support for SDHC cards
No 720p 60 mode for overcranking
No PCM audio
No built-in GPS function
No TC LINK (SMPTE Time Code I/O)
No SDI / HD-SDI.
No ability to be upgrade to 60i/50i switchability
No B&W EVF mode; macro focus; high-speed zoom; smooth-transitioning gain and white-balance; hyper gain; viewfinder markers and safety zones; numerical zoom display and focus distance display in feet; black level, black gamma, knee, and color depth adjustments; manual white balance setting; colorbars with tone; individually switchable front & rear tally lamps; shutter angle display; hour meter; TC reset via remote control. Fewer tweaks for color modes, gammas, and detail settings

I probably would still get the AX2000 myself; the only feature that it would be worth it to me to pay more for is the 720p.

[Michael Murie]

Originally Posted by Brent Ethington

btw - Sony's Business web site (Sony | For Business | HDR-AX2000) shows the HDR-AX2000 with a list price of $3,199 (not the $3,500 as listed in the press release)

Any idea what Sony's "For Business" website is? Who qualifies?

The Sony Style website doesn't have a price listed yet:HDR-AX2000 | High-Definition Handycam® Camcorder | Sony | Sony Style USA

though Amazon has a Pre-order price of $3,499.99 at the moment!

[Ethan Cooper]

I'd guess the AX2000 will come in closer to $3000, but that's based on nothing except having seen past trends. Usually the street price is a good $300 - $500 less than the press release price.

[David Parks]

http://ws.sel.sony.com/PIPWebService...nx5u_v2454.pdf

Brochure of NXCAM5U

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Robert Turchick

So the one thing I really notice is the 4:2:2 color space for both cameras...think that would make a big enough difference to ditch the Panny 150?

There are many more important factors than colour space as regards camera choice, and you have to read the specification carefully. Note:

They handle video data in 1920 x 1080p and 4:2:2 color space for high-quality signal processing before recording it to ........

They HANDLE (or process) the data in 4:2:2 - that's not the same as saying that's how it's recorded. And AFAIK AVC-HD is 4:2:0 by definition. So processing is done 4:2:2 (and external output may be the same), but recording internally is 4:2:0 - as with the Panasonic 150.

That does not mean the quality will therefore be the same as the 150. For one thing, the NXCAM chips have twice as many pixels as the 150, so I'd be amazed if the resolution isn't higher - chroma as well as luminance. The other factor I'd look extremely carefully at is compression quality.

Defining "it's AVC-HD" does NOT define the coder - it defines the DECODER - what the resultant stream has to comply to, but not how it's arrived at. And coding AVC-HD in real time is extremely difficult. Hardly surprisingly, the more you pay, the better it's likely to be at any given point in time.

And there have been big advances in quite a short space of time, so it's extremely likely that the coders in this new camera will be far better than the ones in the HMC150. Same bitrate, so I'd expect better compression than in the 150.

So - there may well be reasons to ditch your Panasonic - but nothing to do with colour space.

I'd also expect the EX1 to outperform both of them, if for no other reason than chips that have twice the area, and twice as many pixels as the NXCAM, four times as many as the 150.

[Michael Murie]

Originally Posted by David Heath

So processing is done 4:2:2 (and external output may be the same), but recording internally is 4:2:0 - as with the Panasonic 150.

Sony definitely says that the NX5U outputs 4:2:2 out the HD-SDI port (and HDMI too it seems) in a video they produced when it was announced, with Juan Martinez, Senior Product:

Sony | Micro Site - NXCAM

I thought that when I saw this back in November, he specifically said something about it being one of the few cameras that outputs 4:2:2, but that doesn't seem to be there now, so I might have just imagined it.

[Cristian Adrian Olariu]

Yes, it's streaming live 4:2:2 signal to the HD-SDI. but on cards and flash memory it's recording 4:2:0, so if you play a clip already recorded it will be 4:2:0.

[Robert Turchick]

Originally Posted by David Heath

So - there may well be reasons to ditch your Panasonic - but nothing to do with colour space.

Thanks for the info. I'm really happy with the 150 and if biz keeps up like it has been, a stronger look at the NX5 seems inevitable! EX is a bit out of reach right now. I can always rent one if needed!

[Arri Arava]

Originally Posted by Michael Murie

Perhaps they implemented the 24p inside 60i to support editing software that doesn't support 24p?

what modern editing suit doesn't support 24p?

if thats the way the camera records, it seems more like a handicap then a design feature.

[Michael Murie]

I believe that Final Cut Express, iMovie and Premiere Pro Elements still don't support 24p. Since Sony labels the HDR-AX2000 as a prosumer camera, perhaps they assume owners may be using programs like that to edit their content.