VG20 vs fs100 lowlight help at DVinfo.net

Kate Spiegel · August 21st, 2012, 04:13 PM

Hi, I am thinking about upgrading to the fs100 because I need better low light abilities with the standard zoom lens. How many stops better is the fs100 over the vg20. I know the IQ on the fs100 is better, but I specifically need better low light with the standard zoom lens.

Is the low light ability of the fs100 so much better than the vg20 that it is worth the upgrade.

Thanks for any help you all can give. I know this issue has been discussed before but I need all the help I can get before making this decision. Thanks again.

Chris Barcellos · August 21st, 2012, 05:30 PM

Actually, Kate, with test I did against the Canon 5D Mark II and the VG20, and from what I have seen compared with the 5D v. FS100, I don't think there is that much difference between the two. The real light gathering happen when adapted faster lenses, like a 50 mm F1.4 or better, or a 24mm F 2.8 35mm camera film lens adapted to the VG20. Of course, everything becomes manual at that point.

Kate Spiegel · August 21st, 2012, 08:57 PM

Thanks, that what I thought, but I wanted to double check. Thanks for all the work you have done for the vg20 community. I've been watching your videos & reading your comments for some time. The vg20 is a great camcorder for the price & I am getting really used to it. Glad I get to keep for some more time.

John Vincent · August 21st, 2012, 10:07 PM

I'd agree with that. The VG20 can dang near see in the dark with a fast lens...

Far as keeping it, I'd be hard pressed to think of why I'd ever sell it - still nothing close to it at the price, and by the time the next gen is out, no one will want it anyway.

It will "graduate" to my B camera when the time comes.

Noa Put · August 22nd, 2012, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

from what I have seen compared with the 5D v. FS100, I don't think there is that much difference between the two.

Between a 5DII and the fs100? I thought there's not much difference between the 5DIII and the fs100 in the way both handle very high gains, if the 5dII is similar to the vg20 in that respect I think the fs100 will perform much better at high gains.

Chris Joy · August 22nd, 2012, 06:20 AM

To the OP, Here's a pretty good test of the FS100's lowlight vs the 5d2 and others...

The advantage the FS100 has is the pixel count and the fact that there's no line skipping - so at high ISO's the noise is much less pronounced. Like others say, the kit lens is slow, faster lenses work wonders. I have the Nex5n (same sensor as the VG) as well, its a great low light performer when I put a f2.8 lens and its amazing with a f1.8, f1.4 or f1.2 lens.

There's lots of low cost legacy glass that's easily adapted to the E-mount and you have the Zeiss 24 and 50/1.8 for faster lens options.

Kate Spiegel · August 22nd, 2012, 01:29 PM

Thanks guys. These camcorders are amazing in low light with the right lens. I'm still having problems with far away shots in low light, so I just get closer to the subject. I miss the fast zoom lens on the small sensor camcorders.

Chris Barcellos · August 22nd, 2012, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Between a 5DII and the fs100? I thought there's not much difference between the 5DIII and the fs100 in the way both handle very high gains, if the 5dII is similar to the vg20 in that respect I think the fs100 will perform much better at high gains.

Not sure what you are agreeing or disagreeing with here. Basically I have heard the FS100 outdoes the 5D, and I shot tests with the 5D vs. the VG20, in which I think the VG20 also beats the 5D seeming to have better low light capability and with less noise. Here is test I did:

Chris Barcellos · August 22nd, 2012, 03:21 PM

Just a little more on my test.

There is no doubt the 5DII actually had higher ISO/Gain capability. Its just that it was my experience that you should not go over 1600 ISO with the 5D, or there would be severe noise. With the VG20, noise at the highest gain setting of 30 was still workable and appeared much cleaner than Canon at 3200 ISO. The VG20 seemed to have a finer more uniform grain pattern.

Noa Put · August 22nd, 2012, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

Not sure what you are agreeing or disagreeing with here.

Well, you said that there was not much difference between the 5d and the fs100, and with "5d" I thought you where referring to the mark II meaning your statement is not correct, the mark III however can deal with much higher gain values comparable with what the fs100 can do, the fs100 should outperform the mark II by quite a margin seeing that gain values of 25.600 are possible while the 5D2 seems to look worse at 6400 Iso.

Chris Barcellos · August 22nd, 2012, 05:16 PM

I see how you misunderstood what I was saying. I should have been more clear.

Chris Joy · August 22nd, 2012, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

The VG20 seemed to have a finer more uniform grain pattern.

Exactly! That's also the case with the FS100 and I've noticed the same thing with the 5n. The noise on the 5d2 is pretty intrusive above 1600, the FS100 spanks it big time in that department as 6400 is as clean as the 5d2 at 1600. Now the 5d3 is another beast - 6400 is very clean, but you're still dealing with line skipping, that Canon soft footage, and much, much worse aliasing and moire.

I was shooting in a very dark room last week FS100 and I pushed it to 8000. I was really worried about how much work I was going to have to do to clean it up, but when I brought the footage into Premiere it looked really good. It just needed a tiny bit of noise reduction and it was clean. I couldn't get those results with the 5d2 at 3200.

August 21st, 2012, 04:13 PM	#1
Kate Spiegel New Boot Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 18	VG20 vs fs100 lowlight help Hi, I am thinking about upgrading to the fs100 because I need better low light abilities with the standard zoom lens. How many stops better is the fs100 over the vg20. I know the IQ on the fs100 is better, but I specifically need better low light with the standard zoom lens. Is the low light ability of the fs100 so much better than the vg20 that it is worth the upgrade. Thanks for any help you all can give. I know this issue has been discussed before but I need all the help I can get before making this decision. Thanks again.

August 21st, 2012, 05:30 PM	#2
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Re: VG20 vs fs100 lowlight help Actually, Kate, with test I did against the Canon 5D Mark II and the VG20, and from what I have seen compared with the 5D v. FS100, I don't think there is that much difference between the two. The real light gathering happen when adapted faster lenses, like a 50 mm F1.4 or better, or a 24mm F 2.8 35mm camera film lens adapted to the VG20. Of course, everything becomes manual at that point. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

August 21st, 2012, 08:57 PM	#3
Kate Spiegel New Boot Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 18	Re: VG20 vs fs100 lowlight help Thanks, that what I thought, but I wanted to double check. Thanks for all the work you have done for the vg20 community. I've been watching your videos & reading your comments for some time. The vg20 is a great camcorder for the price & I am getting really used to it. Glad I get to keep for some more time.

August 21st, 2012, 10:07 PM	#4
John Vincent Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,065	Re: VG20 vs fs100 lowlight help I'd agree with that. The VG20 can dang near see in the dark with a fast lens... Far as keeping it, I'd be hard pressed to think of why I'd ever sell it - still nothing close to it at the price, and by the time the next gen is out, no one will want it anyway. It will "graduate" to my B camera when the time comes.

August 22nd, 2012, 06:20 AM	#6
Chris Joy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Tampa Posts: 220	Re: VG20 vs fs100 lowlight help To the OP, Here's a pretty good test of the FS100's lowlight vs the 5d2 and others... Low light test: FS100 F3 5DmkII on Vimeo Arnie vs the Cohiba: Low light comparison between the FS100, F3, AF101 and Canon 5DmkII on Vimeo The advantage the FS100 has is the pixel count and the fact that there's no line skipping - so at high ISO's the noise is much less pronounced. Like others say, the kit lens is slow, faster lenses work wonders. I have the Nex5n (same sensor as the VG) as well, its a great low light performer when I put a f2.8 lens and its amazing with a f1.8, f1.4 or f1.2 lens. There's lots of low cost legacy glass that's easily adapted to the E-mount and you have the Zeiss 24 and 50/1.8 for faster lens options.

August 22nd, 2012, 01:29 PM	#7
Kate Spiegel New Boot Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: USA Posts: 18	Re: VG20 vs fs100 lowlight help Thanks guys. These camcorders are amazing in low light with the right lens. I'm still having problems with far away shots in low light, so I just get closer to the subject. I miss the fast zoom lens on the small sensor camcorders.

August 22nd, 2012, 03:21 PM	#9
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Re: VG20 vs fs100 lowlight help Just a little more on my test. There is no doubt the 5DII actually had higher ISO/Gain capability. Its just that it was my experience that you should not go over 1600 ISO with the 5D, or there would be severe noise. With the VG20, noise at the highest gain setting of 30 was still workable and appeared much cleaner than Canon at 3200 ISO. The VG20 seemed to have a finer more uniform grain pattern. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

August 22nd, 2012, 05:16 PM	#11
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Re: VG20 vs fs100 lowlight help I see how you misunderstood what I was saying. I should have been more clear. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos