Comparign VG20 with 5n at DVinfo.net

Chris Barcellos · July 14th, 2012, 06:44 PM

There have been posts in this forum that seem to indicate the NEX-5n is a better choice than the VG20. I finally ordered one
1. Well my initial testing show the 5n to be a lot noisier in low light than the VG20. Grain seems more like comes out of the Canon T2i. Strange if these are indeed the same chips.

2. While auto focus is great and would lend itself well to a steady cam situation, the general feel of the camera is no where near as hefty and tough as the VG20 On a should mount rig or a Blackbird type steady cam, the camera will be extremely light and easy to hold for long periods.

3. The very small package also is neat in terms of what looks. This simply looks like a small still camera, making guerrilla style filming pretty simple and unobtrusive.

4. No way to get sound into 5n. :( Memories of the days left behind with the VG20 and other new large sensor rigs..

5. The 5n does have ability to choose styles, a certain plus over the VG20, and adjust the saturation, sharpness and contrast down in those styles. However, if you have to shut camera down, you have to go back in menu each time to reset saturation. In the end, as I have noted before, it seems the VG20 is set at lower saturation, sharpness and contrast settings by Sony, and that that allows a lot of play in post, and the lack of adjustment does not seem as bad as we first considered it.

My thought is that the VG20 is still better for most video purposes than the NEX-5n

Dan Tolbertson · July 14th, 2012, 08:48 PM

I run both a VG20 and a 5N. Yes I prefer the 20 over the 5N all day long but video is close enough that it makes a great B camera. Did my first wedding using these 2 cams and an FX1000 and the VG20 out shined them all and had incredible footage (especially when I slapped on the Sony 50mm 1,8) but it did seem the 5N struggled with the low lighting more than the VG20.

Chris Barcellos · July 14th, 2012, 09:20 PM

Thanks Dan, I was thinking that if I do keep it, it would be for certain situations or a B Camera, as you indicated.

Chris Barcellos · July 14th, 2012, 09:43 PM

One interesting thing about the 5n is the kit lens. To buy it separately, you are talking about $300. It actually should work good on the VG20 as lighter and more balanced camera to use with my Blackbird steadycam. So if I keep the camera, it will be because I want the lens anyway, and it really becomes a $300 B camera as a result.

Chris Barcellos · July 14th, 2012, 09:52 PM

duplicate reply please remove

Todd Clark · July 16th, 2012, 11:53 AM

Can somebody test the Saturation and sharpness level of the VG20 to the 5n in terms of the 5n settings? Example: do they look the same at the 5n's higher, middle or lower settings?

John Vincent · July 17th, 2012, 06:38 AM

Now that's a good question! I second it (don't have a 5N, so I can't compare)....

Chris Barcellos · July 17th, 2012, 11:24 AM

Hi Tod:

I have sent my 5n back to Sony, feeling it wouldn't meet my overall needs that well. I just couldn't shake the feeling of going backwards in terms "video" compatibility (sound, form factor, an having to make specialized devices for the camera, etc.)

As far as how the camera would match up with the VG 20, I played only with "standard" style settling, believing that would be closest match. That proved to be true, in my brief comparison. I thought that the preset with contrast at 0, saturation at 0, and sharpness at 0, was pretty close to the VG20.

It was hard to compare grain and noise "apples to apples" as the 5n set the gain using ISO, and the VG20 uses gain. The maximum gain of 30 on the VG20 seemed faster and less noisy than the maximum for video of 3200 ISO on the 5n.

Chris Joy · July 22nd, 2012, 07:53 AM

From one Chris to another... I have a 5n as a B cam to my FS100, and I've been kicking around the idea of a VG20 instead. How flat is the image coming straight out of the VG? I don't shoot uber-flat with the FS like I did with the 5d2 because highlights clip so easily on the FS, instead I use a few of the color profiles floating around the inter-web that require less work in post. I'd also like better on-board audio to make it easier for cutting between the two cameras. Thanks in advance.

Chris Barcellos · July 22nd, 2012, 01:08 PM

Since I don't have the FS 100, not sure how to respond. Attached are screen grabs from my unscientific comparison of the 5n shot in standard, standard with reduced saturation, sharpness and contrast, and the VG20. Exposure are probably not equal, so that is a problem, but maybe it will give you some idea.

Chris Joy · July 22nd, 2012, 11:03 PM

Thanks Chris, that's exactly what I was looking for. Interesting how much more shadow detail you get with everything turned down in the 5n. It'd be a no brainer if you had the same picture settings of the 5n, but now I'm not so sure. Hmmm...

Chris Barcellos · July 25th, 2012, 10:04 AM

Chris:

I don't have any doubt that if the Vg20 had the same contrast, saturation, and sharpness controls as the 5n that the VG20 would have been a very popular camera for film makers.

I have played with VG20 footage converting it to the Cineform codec for serious editing, as I have always done since HDV days. In adjusting output/input values in First Light, I have been able to get footage from the VG20 to look a lot like flattened Cinestyle footage. It seems to me, there may be more shadow detail in the recorded material than shows in the initial output shown by the codec.

If you would like me to upload some footage to play with, PM me, and maybe we can work out a way through Drop Box, or something like that.

Michael Bradshaw · August 1st, 2012, 03:42 PM

Does any of you guys have a comparison between the vg10 and the vg20/ 5n?

I have a vg10 that I use as a safe shot for weddings with my two fs100's. It's ok but is awful in low light.

Just curious is there a big jump if I was to swap my vg10 for a vg20?

Thanks, M.

Chris Barcellos · August 1st, 2012, 03:57 PM

Maybe this will help you decide:

Michael Bradshaw · August 1st, 2012, 04:14 PM

Thanks Chris, Will have a look now. Appreciate it. M.

July 14th, 2012, 06:44 PM	#1
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Comparign VG20 with 5n There have been posts in this forum that seem to indicate the NEX-5n is a better choice than the VG20. I finally ordered one 1. Well my initial testing show the 5n to be a lot noisier in low light than the VG20. Grain seems more like comes out of the Canon T2i. Strange if these are indeed the same chips. 2. While auto focus is great and would lend itself well to a steady cam situation, the general feel of the camera is no where near as hefty and tough as the VG20 On a should mount rig or a Blackbird type steady cam, the camera will be extremely light and easy to hold for long periods. 3. The very small package also is neat in terms of what looks. This simply looks like a small still camera, making guerrilla style filming pretty simple and unobtrusive. 4. No way to get sound into 5n. :( Memories of the days left behind with the VG20 and other new large sensor rigs.. 5. The 5n does have ability to choose styles, a certain plus over the VG20, and adjust the saturation, sharpness and contrast down in those styles. However, if you have to shut camera down, you have to go back in menu each time to reset saturation. In the end, as I have noted before, it seems the VG20 is set at lower saturation, sharpness and contrast settings by Sony, and that that allows a lot of play in post, and the lack of adjustment does not seem as bad as we first considered it. My thought is that the VG20 is still better for most video purposes than the NEX-5n __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

July 14th, 2012, 08:48 PM	#2
Dan Tolbertson Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Menifee, CA Posts: 126	Re: Comparign VG20 with 5n I run both a VG20 and a 5N. Yes I prefer the 20 over the 5N all day long but video is close enough that it makes a great B camera. Did my first wedding using these 2 cams and an FX1000 and the VG20 out shined them all and had incredible footage (especially when I slapped on the Sony 50mm 1,8) but it did seem the 5N struggled with the low lighting more than the VG20. __________________ Sony Fan Boy! Sony AX100, VG20, RX10, A6000, CX760 and a GoPro 4

July 14th, 2012, 09:20 PM	#3
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Re: Comparign VG20 with 5n Thanks Dan, I was thinking that if I do keep it, it would be for certain situations or a B Camera, as you indicated. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

July 14th, 2012, 09:43 PM	#4
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Re: Comparign VG20 with 5n One interesting thing about the 5n is the kit lens. To buy it separately, you are talking about $300. It actually should work good on the VG20 as lighter and more balanced camera to use with my Blackbird steadycam. So if I keep the camera, it will be because I want the lens anyway, and it really becomes a $300 B camera as a result. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

July 14th, 2012, 09:52 PM	#5
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Re: Comparign VG20 with 5n duplicate reply please remove __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

July 16th, 2012, 11:53 AM	#6
Todd Clark Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Parma, Oh Posts: 172	Re: Comparign VG20 with 5n Can somebody test the Saturation and sharpness level of the VG20 to the 5n in terms of the 5n settings? Example: do they look the same at the 5n's higher, middle or lower settings?

July 17th, 2012, 06:38 AM	#7
John Vincent Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,065	Re: Comparign VG20 with 5n Now that's a good question! I second it (don't have a 5N, so I can't compare)....

July 17th, 2012, 11:24 AM	#8
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Re: Comparing VG20 with 5n Hi Tod: I have sent my 5n back to Sony, feeling it wouldn't meet my overall needs that well. I just couldn't shake the feeling of going backwards in terms "video" compatibility (sound, form factor, an having to make specialized devices for the camera, etc.) As far as how the camera would match up with the VG 20, I played only with "standard" style settling, believing that would be closest match. That proved to be true, in my brief comparison. I thought that the preset with contrast at 0, saturation at 0, and sharpness at 0, was pretty close to the VG20. It was hard to compare grain and noise "apples to apples" as the 5n set the gain using ISO, and the VG20 uses gain. The maximum gain of 30 on the VG20 seemed faster and less noisy than the maximum for video of 3200 ISO on the 5n. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

July 22nd, 2012, 07:53 AM	#9
Chris Joy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Tampa Posts: 220	Re: Comparign VG20 with 5n From one Chris to another... I have a 5n as a B cam to my FS100, and I've been kicking around the idea of a VG20 instead. How flat is the image coming straight out of the VG? I don't shoot uber-flat with the FS like I did with the 5d2 because highlights clip so easily on the FS, instead I use a few of the color profiles floating around the inter-web that require less work in post. I'd also like better on-board audio to make it easier for cutting between the two cameras. Thanks in advance.

July 22nd, 2012, 01:08 PM	#10
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Re: Comparign VG20 with 5n Since I don't have the FS 100, not sure how to respond. Attached are screen grabs from my unscientific comparison of the 5n shot in standard, standard with reduced saturation, sharpness and contrast, and the VG20. Exposure are probably not equal, so that is a problem, but maybe it will give you some idea. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

July 22nd, 2012, 11:03 PM	#11
Chris Joy Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Tampa Posts: 220	Re: Comparign VG20 with 5n Thanks Chris, that's exactly what I was looking for. Interesting how much more shadow detail you get with everything turned down in the 5n. It'd be a no brainer if you had the same picture settings of the 5n, but now I'm not so sure. Hmmm...

July 25th, 2012, 10:04 AM	#12
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Re: Comparign VG20 with 5n Chris: I don't have any doubt that if the Vg20 had the same contrast, saturation, and sharpness controls as the 5n that the VG20 would have been a very popular camera for film makers. I have played with VG20 footage converting it to the Cineform codec for serious editing, as I have always done since HDV days. In adjusting output/input values in First Light, I have been able to get footage from the VG20 to look a lot like flattened Cinestyle footage. It seems to me, there may be more shadow detail in the recorded material than shows in the initial output shown by the codec. If you would like me to upload some footage to play with, PM me, and maybe we can work out a way through Drop Box, or something like that. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

August 1st, 2012, 03:42 PM	#13
Michael Bradshaw Regular Crew Join Date: May 2010 Location: Newtownabbey, UK Posts: 66	Re: Comparign VG20 with 5n Does any of you guys have a comparison between the vg10 and the vg20/ 5n? I have a vg10 that I use as a safe shot for weddings with my two fs100's. It's ok but is awful in low light. Just curious is there a big jump if I was to swap my vg10 for a vg20? Thanks, M.

August 1st, 2012, 03:57 PM	#14
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Re: Comparign VG20 with 5n Maybe this will help you decide: Low Light Test of VG 20 on Vimeo Low Light Noise Testing Comparison with the Sony VG20 and Canon 5D on Vimeo Comparison, VG20 and FS-100 on Vimeo __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

August 1st, 2012, 04:14 PM	#15
Michael Bradshaw Regular Crew Join Date: May 2010 Location: Newtownabbey, UK Posts: 66	Re: Comparign VG20 with 5n Thanks Chris, Will have a look now. Appreciate it. M.