VG 20 choked off at DVinfo.net

Werner Graf · December 22nd, 2011, 01:51 AM

Generally I like this camcorder some improvements over the VG 10 freezing software, AGC, Noise 25p 50 p (PAL)

I cant belive what SONY has constructed here:

Terrible Audio delay (Headphone to Live Sound)
2x Photo Mode Buttons (where the thumb rest with my hands) instead the Record button should be there. Often I land in the Photo Mode and not stopping the recording
Focusassist with the pinky
The tiny Manul Mode wheel is Bonsai Style, while filming hard to find.
No Scene Mode as advertised (many Treads about this)
Push White Balance goes only down to 3000K even the old Nex 5 goes down to 2500K
Color balance only 2 D
To high sharpness
In Play mode with the Remote it is not possible to select a recording

Did we need to live with this? Is SONY simply not listen to us?

John Vincent · December 22nd, 2011, 07:26 AM

Only one real way to make Sony see the light - return your camera. Because there is nothing in Sony's history to suggest that they will "see the light."

I'd think that for many buyers, $1,600 way too much money for a camera so intentionally crippled. If it had built in ND and XLR inputs, perhaps the lack of features would hurt less.

But it doesn't.

Werner Graf · December 22nd, 2011, 11:17 AM

I dont think SONY care about me sending the camera back.
Have to live with it and earn money for a real camcorder like FS100...

John Vincent · December 22nd, 2011, 11:56 AM

I don't know man... if everyone (or even 50%) of the people who buy the camera return it - including the lenses, batteries, etc - then I don't know ow they could it be ignored.

Of course, this is Sony we're talking about, so maybe.

Steve Mullen · December 23rd, 2011, 01:49 AM

It seems the VG category isn't wanted by the NEX photo group nor by the FS100 NEX camcorder group. However, the 16MP chip is perfect for Quad HD, so maybe the VG will be used to introduce this in 2012.

Werner Graf · December 24th, 2011, 05:29 AM

Poor mans Fix Focus Puller and handling...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30801792/Poor%20Mans%20fix.zip

Werner Graf · December 27th, 2011, 09:45 AM

After a few days with it I can say its good for handling run un gun.
I made a Shoulder mount like the big ENG cams with some pads.
Cable Binder/Strip for Focus ion the 18-200 mm. The right hand for Zoom & Start Stopp Record Operation. Left hand on a Pistolgrip mounted underneath the cam, Manual Wheel for Gain Operation & AE Program ON OFF.

Charlie Steiner · December 27th, 2011, 07:24 PM

sounds good - can you show some pictures?
how do you zoom with the right hand?

charlie

Werner Graf · December 28th, 2011, 02:32 AM

Simply by holding the pistol grip ( underneath the camcorder) with the left hand. Left hand cannot used for zooming, because I want manual aperture and operate Iris, Shutter on the left side.... I think for me I can do smoother zooms with the right hand. The whole construction is stabillised from the shoulders and breast even my cheeck can press against it. In the photos you see my old rig and the 5n holding grip. Poor mans zoom with cable binders are ver good to operate. Afternoon my girlfriend is coming she could do the photos of the new Rig. Tryed shooting in the mirror its stupid...

Dave Mercer · December 28th, 2011, 02:29 PM

Not sure what to make of this camcorder.

Would like to get a big sensor in a body designed for video shooting, with headphone jack, proper mic and a top handle. But not sure this is it ...

One guy reported that image is close to his FS100. Many say image is better than 5D.

Why aren't more people trying it out. Is it just the lack of image adjustments?

Chris Barcellos · December 28th, 2011, 02:37 PM

Yes Dave, that is the issue. The image as is comes off very nice. Problem is we want to be able to adjust, sharpness, contrast or saturation down, so color correction won't be hindered in post. The camera doesn't allow it as it stands.

I actually had a FS-100 in my office along side my VG20 one day. My friend and I took them both out in the local street in early evening for some impromptu shooting. I subsequently kept both set of files to get a feel for the difference between the two. The shooting was't done scientifically and it was a bit of a rush to shoot like we did, and I think I had my variable ND on when he didn't on indoor shots, he shot at 30p or 60, while I shot 24p, but my feeling was the two camera really produced some very close footage. I wish I had proper time to shoot more footage and do some real testing.

Bill Bruner · December 28th, 2011, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Mercer

Why aren't more people trying it out. Is it just the lack of image adjustments?

Dave - people who have it seem to like it (see this thread over on Chris' Vimeo channel, if you haven't seen it already), but, in addition to the lack of color control, at

$1600 body-only

, the entry price is pretty high.

I rented one for a weekend and shot a few test exteriors and interiors with both the kit lens and a Canon FD. And it turned out to be a great still camera too. I liked it so much, I'm saving up to buy one to complement my Panasonic GHs.

EDIT: First three reviews at B&H are very positive.

Cheers,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Bill Bruner · December 28th, 2011, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

...I actually had a FS-100 in my office along side my VG20 one day. My friend and I took them both out in the local street in early evening for some impromptu shooting. I subsequently kept both set of files to get a feel for the difference between the two. The shooting was't done scientifically and it was a bit of a rush to shoot like we did, and I think I had my variable ND on when he didn't on indoor shots, he shot at 30p or 60, while I shot 24p, but my feeling was the two camera really produced some very close footage. I wish I had proper time to shoot more footage and do some real testing.

Chris - When you get some time, I'm sure that a lot of us would love to see your side-by-side FS100/VG20 footage - frame rates and ND filters notwithstanding!

(Also looking forward to seeing your narrative work - but I know how difficult and time consuming it can be to be an unpaid camera reviewer and a creative filmmaker at the same time ;-)).

Best of the New Year,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Chris Barcellos · December 29th, 2011, 12:35 AM

Bill, This is the narrative film we shot with the VG20 for the DVInfo charity challenge. All shot with this camera.

I will say the green screen stuff was shot in poorly lit quick shooting situation. We shot the entire film in about 5 hours, and it was just me and a novice sound guy and the talent. So I wasn't expecting a lot, but I could tell from the shoot that a lot can be done with this camera. The lighting in the non-green screen shots was strictly window and any in home lighting there.

Les Wilson · December 29th, 2011, 08:58 AM

Just a random comment... not directed at anyone or any post, but I see this over and over.

How good a camera is can't be based on just it's image or worse, it's image in ideal circumstances. Isn't a camera that can be setup in 2 minutes better than one that takes 20? Or one that dials in exposure and focus in 10 seconds better than one that takes 2 minutes? Isn't a camera that can expose, follow focus and record great audio by one person better than one that takes 2 or 3? And so what if you can get an $800 DSLR to record something under certain conditions that looks as good as $2500 FF DSLR or $9000 film-corder? There's reasons why the VG20 is $1500 and the AF100 or FS-100 are $5000. If those things aren't important to you, it doesn't mean the cameras aren't better than a camera that costs half that or more. .... it just means is not better for you.

It's good to give feedback to manufacturers. In many ways, the VG-20 has improvements that were complaints about the VG-10. Having a large sensor in a camcorder body at $1500 isn't a right. To be fair, Sony's the only one out there giving it a shot. At that price it's the VG-20 or a DSLR. Choose your poison. You aren't going to get all the great things of the F3 in the FS-100 and ditto of the FS-100 in the VG-20. YMMV.

December 22nd, 2011, 01:51 AM	#1
Werner Graf Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Zuerich Switzerland Posts: 98	VG 20 choked off Generally I like this camcorder some improvements over the VG 10 freezing software, AGC, Noise 25p 50 p (PAL) I cant belive what SONY has constructed here: Terrible Audio delay (Headphone to Live Sound) 2x Photo Mode Buttons (where the thumb rest with my hands) instead the Record button should be there. Often I land in the Photo Mode and not stopping the recording Focusassist with the pinky The tiny Manul Mode wheel is Bonsai Style, while filming hard to find. No Scene Mode as advertised (many Treads about this) Push White Balance goes only down to 3000K even the old Nex 5 goes down to 2500K Color balance only 2 D To high sharpness In Play mode with the Remote it is not possible to select a recording Did we need to live with this? Is SONY simply not listen to us?

December 22nd, 2011, 07:26 AM	#2
John Vincent Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,065	Re: VG 20 choked off Only one real way to make Sony see the light - return your camera. Because there is nothing in Sony's history to suggest that they will "see the light." I'd think that for many buyers, $1,600 way too much money for a camera so intentionally crippled. If it had built in ND and XLR inputs, perhaps the lack of features would hurt less. But it doesn't.

December 22nd, 2011, 11:17 AM	#3
Werner Graf Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Zuerich Switzerland Posts: 98	Re: VG 20 choked off I dont think SONY care about me sending the camera back. Have to live with it and earn money for a real camcorder like FS100...

December 22nd, 2011, 11:56 AM	#4
John Vincent Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,065	Re: VG 20 choked off I don't know man... if everyone (or even 50%) of the people who buy the camera return it - including the lenses, batteries, etc - then I don't know ow they could it be ignored. Of course, this is Sony we're talking about, so maybe.

December 23rd, 2011, 01:49 AM	#5
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Re: VG 20 choked off It seems the VG category isn't wanted by the NEX photo group nor by the FS100 NEX camcorder group. However, the 16MP chip is perfect for Quad HD, so maybe the VG will be used to introduce this in 2012. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

December 24th, 2011, 05:29 AM	#6
Werner Graf Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Zuerich Switzerland Posts: 98	Re: VG 20 choked off Poor mans Fix Focus Puller and handling... http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30801792/Poor%20Mans%20fix.zip

December 27th, 2011, 09:45 AM	#7
Werner Graf Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Zuerich Switzerland Posts: 98	Re: VG 20 choked off After a few days with it I can say its good for handling run un gun. I made a Shoulder mount like the big ENG cams with some pads. Cable Binder/Strip for Focus ion the 18-200 mm. The right hand for Zoom & Start Stopp Record Operation. Left hand on a Pistolgrip mounted underneath the cam, Manual Wheel for Gain Operation & AE Program ON OFF.

December 27th, 2011, 07:24 PM	#8
Charlie Steiner Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 66	Re: VG 20 choked off sounds good - can you show some pictures? how do you zoom with the right hand? charlie

December 28th, 2011, 02:32 AM	#9
Werner Graf Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Zuerich Switzerland Posts: 98	Re: VG 20 choked off Simply by holding the pistol grip ( underneath the camcorder) with the left hand. Left hand cannot used for zooming, because I want manual aperture and operate Iris, Shutter on the left side.... I think for me I can do smoother zooms with the right hand. The whole construction is stabillised from the shoulders and breast even my cheeck can press against it. In the photos you see my old rig and the 5n holding grip. Poor mans zoom with cable binders are ver good to operate. Afternoon my girlfriend is coming she could do the photos of the new Rig. Tryed shooting in the mirror its stupid... Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Werner Graf; December 28th, 2011 at 02:41 AM. Reason: Pics

December 28th, 2011, 02:29 PM	#10
Dave Mercer Major Player Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Lake Atitlan, Guatemala Posts: 346	Re: VG 20 choked off Not sure what to make of this camcorder. Would like to get a big sensor in a body designed for video shooting, with headphone jack, proper mic and a top handle. But not sure this is it ... One guy reported that image is close to his FS100. Many say image is better than 5D. Why aren't more people trying it out. Is it just the lack of image adjustments?

December 28th, 2011, 02:37 PM	#11
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Re: VG 20 choked off Yes Dave, that is the issue. The image as is comes off very nice. Problem is we want to be able to adjust, sharpness, contrast or saturation down, so color correction won't be hindered in post. The camera doesn't allow it as it stands. I actually had a FS-100 in my office along side my VG20 one day. My friend and I took them both out in the local street in early evening for some impromptu shooting. I subsequently kept both set of files to get a feel for the difference between the two. The shooting was't done scientifically and it was a bit of a rush to shoot like we did, and I think I had my variable ND on when he didn't on indoor shots, he shot at 30p or 60, while I shot 24p, but my feeling was the two camera really produced some very close footage. I wish I had proper time to shoot more footage and do some real testing. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

December 29th, 2011, 12:35 AM	#14
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Re: VG 20 choked off Bill, This is the narrative film we shot with the VG20 for the DVInfo charity challenge. All shot with this camera. I will say the green screen stuff was shot in poorly lit quick shooting situation. We shot the entire film in about 5 hours, and it was just me and a novice sound guy and the talent. So I wasn't expecting a lot, but I could tell from the shoot that a lot can be done with this camera. The lighting in the non-green screen shots was strictly window and any in home lighting there. The Life and Times of Grandpa Don Coyote on Vimeo __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

December 29th, 2011, 08:58 AM	#15
Les Wilson Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 3,014	Re: VG 20 choked off Just a random comment... not directed at anyone or any post, but I see this over and over. How good a camera is can't be based on just it's image or worse, it's image in ideal circumstances. Isn't a camera that can be setup in 2 minutes better than one that takes 20? Or one that dials in exposure and focus in 10 seconds better than one that takes 2 minutes? Isn't a camera that can expose, follow focus and record great audio by one person better than one that takes 2 or 3? And so what if you can get an $800 DSLR to record something under certain conditions that looks as good as $2500 FF DSLR or $9000 film-corder? There's reasons why the VG20 is $1500 and the AF100 or FS-100 are $5000. If those things aren't important to you, it doesn't mean the cameras aren't better than a camera that costs half that or more. .... it just means is not better for you. It's good to give feedback to manufacturers. In many ways, the VG-20 has improvements that were complaints about the VG-10. Having a large sensor in a camcorder body at $1500 isn't a right. To be fair, Sony's the only one out there giving it a shot. At that price it's the VG-20 or a DSLR. Choose your poison. You aren't going to get all the great things of the F3 in the FS-100 and ditto of the FS-100 in the VG-20. YMMV.