New creative ways to CRIPPLE a great camera!

[Dirk Pel]

Originally Posted by Buba Kastorski

Absolutely agree, and with VG10 i think they've outdone themselves, first camcorder I've seen LCD goes 90° only.

This is not so bad as you think.
We had 2 Camcorder, HC1 with broken ribbon from the display. If you see how these are bended, you know why this must give problems.
Im happy with the VG10, it takes some time to be familiair. Of course I hope Sony will update the soft so there is at least a zebra and a possibility for sharpness.

Happy Christmas
Dirk PEL(NL)

[Charlie Webster]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Perhaps the role of the vg10 is to get something in the market that on the surface offers an alternative to all the other cameras. In this role it has been doing it's job. The fact even I call it a wonderful camcorder means the vg10 is not horrible.

The problem NOW is the GH2 is arriving. I'm not sure if the VG can continue it's role except amongst those who read nothing. Or, you insost they must have a camcorder.

Sony could very easily fight back with a CES firmware release. Or, it could alter it's price by selling it with the 16mm or 18200 or just the adaptor.

But, if CES passes with nothing, then Sony will get no coverage until the NEXCAM at NAB.

Very good post

GH2 appears to be cutting edge now. Not without it's own silliness: little batteries, poor LCD, but it seems to be ahead in many ways of just about everything.

It's only fundamental weakness seems to be 2x crop and resulting wide angle shortfall. But 4/3 sensor loves the c mounts, and 1:1 crop option mean it rules in the tele arena.

The vg has all sorts of sillyness, but the screen flip is far down the list. The LCd is frankly the best I have seem--- check the size and Rez. It's great.

Us vg10 folks can take solace in the fact that all those fixed lens fancy cameras are a generation behind.

[Henry Williams]

A proper camcorder form factor, better lcd and better battery life are, I think, enough to give the VG10 the edge over the GH2 in terms of practicality for shooting video even without zebra and focus assist.

[Steve Mullen]

The question is, what is a "proper" camcorder form factor? The grip on the side style is POPULAR, but it certainly isn't PROPER because it is inherently out of balance. The EX1 is the worst of this breed.

A still camera when held correctly by the left hand, is inherently in balance in all directions.

The VG10 has controls you can not SEE, a still camera has it's important controls on the back and top. With a still camera you can use your right hand for controls which is perfect for right-handers.

I haven't found anything about a camcorder form factor that makes it better.

[Henry Williams]

Hey Steve,

Maybe it's just a case of the devil you know - I'm very used to working with the camcorder form factor and am comfortable juggling all the settings, feeling for buttons from memory and know how to nurture my kit along to get results I'm happy with. After a recent test of my brother's GH2 (entirely in my personal flawed and subjective opinion) it feels a bit off making videos with a stills camera. Don't get me wrong. The picture looked great. I'm also sure that with practice I'd get used to it and develop the same feel I currently have for the camcorder form factor equipment I own, but thankfully I don't have to. I struggle enough learning anything new at the best of times ;)

I think there is an argument that for people wanting to work as camera crew further up the industry familiarity with the form factor adopted by all of the higher end digital kit like the cinealta range etc... is beneficial, but that stuff is all way out of my league at the moment so I guess this last point is more idle speculation than anything else. It would be interesting to hear from any camera Op's who came up through DSLR's and are now working with that gear what it was like making the transition...

[Henry Williams]

Also, I never use the side grip, always the top handle and generally rely more on the LCD (or a small monitor if I'm lucky) only using the viewfinder to check focus. I'm 6ft7 tall so holding the camera by the side handle would involve shooting over most people's heads and, like you say, tends to scew your shots into a permanent dutch angle anyway. Generally if I shoot anything handheld I use a fig rig and brace the camera against my ample belly, thus ensuring I'm at a good shooting height to frame people up correctly.

[Steve Mullen]

I agree the handle is how I would like to use the VG10, BUT

If I hold it in my right hand, the RECORD button is a pain to reach. This is why so many consumer camcorders place a button on the LCD and pro models put one on the handle.

Sony KNOWS ALL THIS.

Perhaps the bean counters were telling engineers NOT to add functions.

Perhaps the market design folks were insisting the design was "minimalist" and fewest buttons demanded,

Perhaps, the VG10 was a designed very rapidly.

When the NEX-7 arrives in March, it is likely to be be priced about $1000. If It has the VG10's VF -- which is likely -- it will offer more competition to the VG10. It would be an ideal time for a VG20 -- if Sony is serious about a camcorder form factor.

The problem for buyers is -- when the NEX-3, -5, and VG10 were announced there was no GH2. We thought Sony had leaped ahead

Sony, of course, will maintain it could care less about what Panasonic does. But, if Canon also rolls out a 2011 line of cameras -- Sony will be crazy if it doesn't respond in some way.

So we might just get what we want.

PS: I'll bet the Sony Dial could become a left-side RECORD button if Sony spent an hour thinking about it.

[Charlie Webster]

I agree about the record button--very hard to hit it without moving the camera

[Steve Mullen]

I estimate if Sony spent 1 day of thinking most everything we want would arrive. :)

I'm still trying to work thru the pro group at Sony all of whom I know well (at who will be at CES) to get an appt with the right person in the consumer group. If I have to I'll hang at the booth until I button-hole them.

The laugh will be if Canon comes out of left field with something nice. Or, Nikon.

[William Hohauser]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

The question is, what is a "proper" camcorder form factor? The grip on the side style is POPULAR, but it certainly isn't PROPER because it is inherently out of balance. The EX1 is the worst of this breed.

A still camera when held correctly by the left hand, is inherently in balance in all directions.

The VG10 has controls you can not SEE, a still camera has it's important controls on the back and top. With a still camera you can use your right hand for controls which is perfect for right-handers.

I haven't found anything about a camcorder form factor that makes it better.

The camcorder form grew out of ENG cameras from the 1970's where size of the components forced everything on to the shoulder. I was fortunate to just miss the two piece backpack era of portable cameras (that was just the camera, not the portable deck!). Once Betacam came in and one piece camera/VTR combos became possible, the cameras stayed on the shoulder. There is an inherent stability to the shoulder design that allows good weight distribution and two hand lens control. There's a reason that shoulder rigs for DSLRs are available. Still cameras are designed for taking stills not long, hand-held video shots. But for taking stills, a shoulder mount on a SLR would be a great hinderance.

It was the advances in camcorder technology that allowed the unit to get so small that it could be held in the palm. Great for convenience but not so good for picture stability. I call these cameras "wristcams" since the weight of the unit is largely in the wrist which can quickly lead to fatigue. Unfortunately some pro cameras are built out from this design, Panasonic is the lead culprit in this. Most of their smaller pro cameras, including the AG100, are designed like small cinder blocks that balance on the wrist. Fine on a tripod but tough hand held. Sony, who usually designs easier to hold cameras, came out with the blocky EX1 which led to complaints and the improved ergonomic design of the EX3.

Perhaps we'll see a design out from the DSLR's still taking roots to something more friendly to professional ENG/EFP video users. The NEX10 isn't it. Clearly not designed by the team that worked on any of the HDV pro cameras.

[Bill Koehler]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Perhaps the role of the vg10 is to get something in the market that on the surface offers an alternative to all the other cameras. In this role it has been doing it's job. The fact even I call it a wonderful camcorder means the vg10 is not horrible.

The problem NOW is the GH2 is arriving. I'm not sure if the VG can continue it's role except amongst those who read nothing. Or, you insist they must have a camcorder.

Sony could very easily fight back with a CES firmware release. Or, it could alter it's price by selling it with the 16mm or 18200 or just the adaptor.

But, if CES passes with nothing, then Sony will get no coverage until the NEXCAM at NAB.

I absolutely agree with this and it is buttressed by looking at pages like this:

Video Cameras & Camcorders | Sony | Sony Style USA Cameras & Camcorders

Where if you scroll down you see four major tabs / categories of cameras:

1. Bloggie HD Cameras
2. Handycam Camcorders
3. Interchangable Lens Handycam
4. Advanced Amateur & Professional

So by Sony's own categorization, the VG10 doesn't even rate 'Advanced Amateur', which I think is a huge mistake. I can say that what finally killed this camera for me was hook up that external monitor or recorder and your control displays, LCD & VF, go away. It's going to take a VG20 with a significant feature rework to interest me.