Sony NEX VG10 new "PRO" Model

[Cliff Totten]

Let's start a discussion on a possible "pro"model.

Sony has a long running history of making 2 identical camcorders, one always being a crippled and "feature disabled" version of it's "pro" twin. (we could rattle off several Sony models marketed this way) There are some rumors of a possible VG10 clone model that will have features that the current VG10 doesn't have. Could we expect;

Zebras?
Peaking?
24p?
Full time 4:2:2 HDMI output?
Full audio level control?
XLR side mounted attatchment?

CES 2011 is comming up soon. Anybody want to add some speculation of this "rumored" model?

CT

[Steve Mullen]

Given the non pro is $2000--which IMHO is $500 too high, then the pro twin would need to be $3500, or so. Hasn't Sony already announce a box with a lens kuldge at about this price? Sorry, I took one look and decided it was as ugly as the A100 from Pana -- so I read no more about it.

However, if there is room in the $3000 to $4000 price space then I believe the pro vg10 has already been shown to folks in NYC. I need to say this as a rumor because once I learn it to be fact, I won't be able to say anything more! Or, I'll have kill you all.

If it works as it has in the past, we will get 24p and native recording of 24,25,30p plus XLRs with controls.

I doubt HDMI OUT while shooting, but we should get focus assist.

##

Now just to make things fun, I've been working with a NEX-5 and because I like the 1855 more than the 18200, with the discount on the 16mm, it seems like a really good deal compared to the vg10 or any $3500 camera. The focus assist makes the LCD useable! Simply touch the focus ring and it auto-enters zoom mode until you finish focusing.

Maybe I'm just cheap, but knowing new models will come fast, do I really want to spend over $800? You know Canon will respond!

The fact the lenses, chip, and video format are all the same -- makes the NEX-5 seem like a bargain compared with the vg10 plus buying 2 more lenses. And, if you happen to like 720p30 and h.264 more than you like AVCHD, the NEX-3 is damn near free.

Lastly, although the vg10's little button panel seems nice, the rear mounted dslr controls are better IMHO.

The key thing, is that the most important thing is a built in nd filter!!! It does no good to be able to set the shutter speed if the aperture needs to be f/22! So, the fact I can set aperture for dof with the NEX-3/5 and then chose an nd filter to determine the shutter speed is only the reverse of setting the shutter speed and using an nd filter to set the aperture, as is required by the vg10.

[Les Wilson]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Given the non pro is $2000--which IMHO is $500 too high, then the pro twin would need to be $3500, or so. Hasn't Sony already announce a box with a lens kuldge at about this price?

Sony announce the NXCAM HD Super35 35mm camera | Paul Joy
If that is the Sony you are mentioning, the Sony press release doesn't mention a price but Paul Joy and another site are saying $6000 so that could leave a gap. That puts it 6 or so months behind and $1000 more than the AF100.

The Panny TM700 at under $800 has peaking and tracking for focus assist. The $5000 AF100 has peaking and a Focus bar for Focus Assist. The GH2 at $999 has focus assist.

It will be interesting to see if Canon or Sony puts a product in that gap. From a big picture, the VG10 and a couple lenses kinda sits at the low end all by itself with no other large sensor camcorder around.

[Steve Mullen]

Which would make a $3500 improved VG10 very attractive. Which makes me think the Sony meeting a few weeks ago likely was about a "VG100".

Of course, unless it comes with no lens and just the adaptor, it's going to get expensive.

[Cliff Totten]

I would not consider the NXCAM super 35 "thing" to be the next step up from the VG10. Mostly because a super 35mm sensor with only 2 megapixels on it would easily outclass (in theory) any camera today below 10k. That's a huge jump up in quality.

I'm thinking this "VG100" will be a 99% physical clone simply outfitted with new firmware features. Same APSC sensor loaded with all it's usual heavily interpolated characteristics for video. (14mp sliced and diced down to 2mp for video)

This meeting in NY....what was that? Who was there?

NX5 seems cool but the video time limitation doesn't work for me.

I'm on the verge of adding the VG10 to my collection but I'm waiting for CES 2011 first. If they release a "VG100",...I'm definitely in.

I would also suspect this would have an "NXCAM" badge. (NX1 or something?)

CT

[Steve Mullen]

Can't say who was there but it was last week. Seems very unlikely it would be about the mid-2010 product unless Sony is trying FUD just as the A100 is released.

Since I'm reasonably sure it was a PRO division presentation and I know the PRO division will be at CES, I would say it is an "N" camcorder as you state.

Have you noticed there have been no reviews of the vg10? Very odd.

[Les Wilson]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Can't say who was there but it was last week. Seems very unlikely it would be about the mid-2010 product unless Sony is trying FUD just as the A100 is released.

Since I'm reasonably sure it was a PRO division presentation and I know the PRO division will be at CES, I would say it is an "N" camcorder as you state..

Is this the meeting you are referring to? This is the invitation I received:
"You spoke and we listened. Come see Sony's newest handheld Super 35mm camera, the PMW-F3, that combines technology and creativity into a new tool for filmmakers. The PMW-F3 further enhances Sony's large sensor Super 35mm camera line with state-of-the-art engineering, compact size, spectacular performance - all at an attractive "indie" price.

This exclusive event will include a screening of some of the first footage acquired with the camera, and a panel discussion with the production teams involved. You'll also have a chance to demo the camera.

Date: Thursday, December 16, 2010 | 6 PM
Location: AMC Empire 25 with IMAX Theatre | Auditorium #14
234 W 42nd Street | New York, NY 10036"

[Cliff Totten]

In this new "large single sensor" craze thing that is going on, Sony definitely has a big price gap in their lineup. We got the VG10 at $2K than we have that new super35mm NXCAM at around $6k.

$2,000 and $6000,...so they could drop the VG10 to $1500 and drop in a "pro" version at around $3000.

I don't think a "pro" VG10 (VG100/NX1) threatens ANY higher model because the EX1 & NX5 are squarely aimed at the ENG, event "run&gun" crowd. The VG10 makes for a terrible "run&gun" camcorder. You will never see a Hollywood paparazzi guy or war corespondent or small news guy using a VG10. So, EX1s are safe.

Any thoughts?

[Steve Mullen]

I just figured it out. On the Vimeo site a person says they are going to a 3 day session in NJ on the F3.

This matches my independently learning of a 3 day meeting.

Also, as a member of the press I've gone to many product announcements and they have always been in the NYC Sony bldg.

So, this means no N1, or a surprise CES N1, or an NAB N1.

To give the VG10 a longer life NAB might be logical.

That would give them 2 e-mount camcorders.

[Les Wilson]

One has to wonder if there's a business case at $3000. The demand for sDOF without the DSLR issues is a dam that's burst and flowing to the AF100. THe VG10 beat it to market but with the wrong specs so it didn't go there. Except for the Sony faithful, how much will be left to flow to the NXCAM35 at a $1000 premium? The F3 isn't in the discussion.

When the flood settles, you have the many for whom $5k is a stretch but doable and those for whom it's a no brainer all gone over to Panasonic and the AF100. THat is giving the Microfour thirds lens and accessories market a kick in the pants which drains away from Sony's Alpha and E mount industry.

That leaves the remaining who go for price where the DSLR always wins and those looking for a lock down charlie B-camera for whom S-DOF is a nice to have. Of that remnant looking for sDOF without the DSLR version 1.0 issues, the choice is VG10 at $2K and the GH2 at $1K with it's peaking, focus tracking, clean HDMI, 24p and 1:1 crop mode that turns any lens into a 5.2x (i.e. 300mm becomes 1560mm) expanded focus/ultra zoom. Here's an example from another thread on DVInfo of a 300mm lens turned into a glassless 1560mm lens):

GH2, 100-300, EX TELE setting, 24P on Vimeo

I think it's an uphill climb at this point. Cameras are power, lens, sensor box and storage. Compared to the GH2, the VG10 sensor box is twice the price and lacking modern focus assist. It just makes me wonder if there's enough of the market left to justify a $3K price point. To it's low side, the product would only be stealing from the VG10 and have to be featured enough to steal from the AF100. Interesting times. I hope they figure it out.

[Steve Mullen]

I agree. They should have made the VG10 $2500 and used firmware that supports what is really wanted. No need for two camcorders.

Frankly, I think they are shooting themselves in the foot.

[Paulo Teixeira]

I'd pick a GH2 over a VG10 very quickly and I'm actually getting one not only for the features you mention but also for 720 60p and audio control but to be fair to the VG10, I wouldn't compare the price to a GH2 with a less than ideal lens. It should be compared to the GH2 with the 10x lens. I still think the price of the VG10 is way too much for offering so little compared to the GH2.

With that said, I'm looking forward to hearing more information about the S35 sized NXCAM since it's claimed 1080 60p might make the cut. Believe it or not but 1008 50p and 60p is gaining popularity and that would be a key feature to separate itself from the AF100 although who's to say Panasonic wont be announcing an AVC-Ultra version with 1080 60p and then you have the Red Scarlet and perhaps the 4K Canon camera.

Every single year there is always something to look forward to at NAB and the next one is definitely no different. Surprisingly I have never went yet and I'm not so sure I'll want to miss the one coming up.

[Steve Mullen]

I could have bought a GH1 -- the last one -- but once I lifted it I realized how heavy it was. The VG10 with the 1855 is just the right weight for me.

The GH1/2 lens was a monster. But, as far as know there is no 5X zoom for it.

But maybe the 3X with the electronic tele extender might work.

[Cliff Totten]

Correct me if I'm wrong,...is the VG10 the "only" APSC sensor video recorder that does NOT have a video recording limitation? The only APSC camera that does not overheat?

Another Sony model that is supposedly crossing into the VG10's marketing space is the new Alpha A77.

Rumors have it that the new Alpha A77 will have much (if not all) of the video capabilities of the VG10. The sensor overheating issue is still yet to be seen.

This is going to be the most interesting CES I can remember.

All of this feature set "crossing-over" stuff must be driving the marketing people nuts! Here is the new model "X",....now what features do we allow it to have AND how much do we cripple it too!! (We gotta protect each of our devices marketed above it....that works fine untill a competitor breaks the rules...lol)

Canon,..I love you for doing this to the industry!

CT

[Buba Kastorski]

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten

Correct me if I'm wrong,...is the VG10 the "only" APSC sensor video recorder that does NOT have a video recording limitation? The only APSC camera that does not overheat?

no it's not, there is RED and closer to the price point AF100