Sony NEX-VG10 AVCHD E-Mount Lens Camcorder

Dave Blackhurst · August 15th, 2010, 10:53 PM

Well, there is going to be some activity on Aug 24th, but I believe it will all be about the new Alpha mount.bodies, the rumble on the street is 4 new models, two A5xx series replacements w/video, and two new animals using a pellix mirror design specifically to facilitate faster focus for video. I'm leaning towards something in that vein, at least so far, though I doubt they will have the same sexy vibe the VG10 has.

I don't see any reason why Sony can't issue a "pro" model of the VG10, although the basic design is pretty sleek/bare bones. I suspect when they showed the prototype a few months ago, they were testing the waters, and found them to be filled with hungry "large sensor" pirahna... so followup models would be no surprise.

I know the whole E mount apparently evolved out of the need for a new lens design that could better accomodate video. Sony is coming "fashionably late" the the SLR/large sensor party, but they are coming with some fresh new ideas, that's always exciting.

Glen, since I know DVi doesn't generally sanction "rumors", if you're interested in possible future developments, google "sony alpha rumours", as well as Dyxum, those sites are more oriented towards the SLR (dyxum actually may declare you heretical you if you mention video being of importance - they are hardcore still oriented), both have some discussion on video (not much, nor as thorough as here!!). Hopefully as the situation develops, Chris can build out the Sony forums as the still and video sides converge.

Robert Young · August 16th, 2010, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

Does anyone have any links to these rumors of new Sony cameras? That news is very intriguing.

Here's one source I was able to remember & track down:
"I fully expect there to be another camcorder model announced (I’d guess by the end of the year) that will compete more in the HVX200 and XDCAM EX1 size/featureset market. And given all the right notes they have hit with their first entry into the DSLR-video-camcorder space, I am very excited to see what they have next for us. So if the NEX-VG10 isn’t your cup of tea, I personally don’t think you’ll have long to wait for more options."- Matt Jeppsen
All of this sort of "info" is obviously speculative, but Matt does claim to be connected with someone knowledgable at Sony.
Link to the full article: ProVideo Coalition.com: FRESHDV by Matthew Jeppsen & Kendal Miller
They are pretty clever at Sony. It makes sense that they didn't design the VG10 as an isolated one-off product. The sales $$$ feedback they are now getting from the NEX still cams, plus the preorders for the VG10- as well as the level of worldwide interest (almost 27,000 views of this DV Info thread alone), are probably providing all the signals they need for full speed ahead- or not...

Glen Vandermolen · August 16th, 2010, 07:38 AM

Dave and Robert,

Thank you for the links. But it doesn't look like Sony will have a professional model anytime soon. Based on what I've read, there is no real news of a pro model. It's not even a rumor, more like a writer's wish list. That doesn't mean it won't happen, I just don't see any definite news. We do know Sony displayed a prototype of a large sensor pro model at NAB, but it's way more than $2,000.

There might be a new video-capable Sony DSLR, but I prefer the video camera body style. I do find it interesting that on the DSLR forums, they're speculating that the E-mount system will expand and give us more lens choices.

I think for this year, we'll just have the VG10. And if there is a new pro model, it will most certainly be priced around the other pro model camcorders. So, the VG10 will still be in a class by itself.

Dave Blackhurst · August 16th, 2010, 11:26 AM

I suspect the VG10 will be somewhat like the old HC1 - a breakout product to open the door to future development - so the "possiblity" of an A1U equivalent is there. The VG10 is a "first test shot" if you will.

The entire NEX series with it's E mount is "uncharted territory", and so far has apparently been wildly sucessful despite some interface stumbles on a "1st gen" product. We do know that the E mount (with the new lenses) was designed to avoid some of the inherent issues in trying to use a DSLR for video

I do find the inclusion of the alpha flash shoe to be intrigueing. Sony has in the past put some interesting features on their proprietary shoes, although it's a long shot... in theory they "could" have put an interface of some sort up there for an XLR box, although I'd sincerely doubt it.

I'm mixed on the DSLR form factor for video, but I can go either way, depending on the features.

I do expect the lens options available for the E mount to open up, there are already third party options to mount a number of "other" manufacturers lenses via adapters. I'd rather like to play with a tilt shift adapter someday myself!

Robert Young · August 16th, 2010, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

I think for this year, we'll just have the VG10. And if there is a new pro model, it will most certainly be priced around the other pro model camcorders. So, the VG10 will still be in a class by itself.

That makes sense to me as well.
It's possible that Sony will "announce" some intention of a more full featured APS video cam by year's end, but I would guess that it would be well into next year before it was actually available, and would probably be in the $4-$6K price range.
So, the VG10 will likely stand alone in it's particular niche re price, features, size, etc.

Ozzy Alvarez · August 16th, 2010, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Young

That makes sense to me as well.
It's possible that Sony will "announce" some intention of a more full featured APS video cam by year's end, but I would guess that it would be well into next year before it was actually available, and would probably be in the $4-$6K price range.
So, the VG10 will likely stand alone in it's particular niche re price, features, size, etc.

I'm guessing that any pro version of the VG10 will be in & around the $3500 to $5000 price range. Sony usually creates anywhere between a $1500 to $2000 price difference between their similiar version of a consumer & pro camera, with a few exceptions like the $500 difference between the AX2000 and NX5 & the CX550V and MC50U. But the FX1 and Z1U had a $2000 difference, The FX7 /V1U & FX1000/Z5U had about a $1000-1500 difference. So, in keeping with Sony's pricing philosophy, I expect that if any pro version of the VG10 is released, it'll probably be at MSRP of either $2999.99, $3499.99 or $3999.99.

Ozzy

Robert Young · August 16th, 2010, 10:37 PM

I think it may depend on whether they just stick a few features (like XLR) on the existing VG10, or up the ante to an NX sized cam with features more comparable to an EX1.
Or maybe, in good time, all of the above :)

Paul Dickin · August 17th, 2010, 07:34 AM

Hi
I would guess that any 'pro' version of the VG10 made available this year would be like the CX550V/MC50 versioning - a different colour but functionally identical, with minor add-on accessories, and a logo redesign...
(So as to allow Sony Pro Video dealers a slice of the action).

Rumoured for an announcement at Photokina is an upgraded/rechipped NEX-7 still camera, and if correct that would be a more likely basis for a proper Pro EX-1 type offering:
Sony NEX-7 with 1080p coming later in 2010 - SlashGear

720p120!!!

Glen Vandermolen · August 17th, 2010, 07:52 AM

So the NEX-7 will have a more capable sensor than the NEX 3/5 - and the VG10. And it will do 60i, 24P and 30P, and an incredible 720/120P!
Methinks Sony should delay the VG10 until it can also get these goodies. Hmmm...maybe a VG20 coming soon?

Ozzy Alvarez · August 17th, 2010, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

So the NEX-7 will have a more capable sensor than the NEX 3/5 - and the VG10. And it will do 60i, 24P and 30P, and an incredible 720/120P!
Methinks Sony should delay the VG10 until it can also get these goodies. Hmmm...maybe a VG20 coming soon?

Any word when the NEX-7 is gonna be released. Hmm, the NEX-7, the VG10, and the Z35, which they unveiled at NAB 2010 and claim to be released before NAB 2011, Sony is really upping the ante. Who knows what else they got from now to the end of the year.

Ozzy

Glen Vandermolen · August 17th, 2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozzy Alvarez

Any word when the NEX-7 is gonna be released. Hmm, the NEX-7, the VG10, and the Z35, which they unveiled at NAB 2010 and claim to be released before NAB 2011, Sony is really upping the ante. Who knows what else they got from now to the end of the year.

Ozzy

According to the articles, maybe September 2010 for the NEX 7.

Dave Blackhurst · August 17th, 2010, 09:20 PM

Supposedly the NEX 7 is a bit behind schedule - BUT, I notice that the specs for two of the cameras supposed to hit on the 24th of this month show a 16Mpixel sensor - may be the anticipated "better" sensor, since the other two cameras appear to perhaps have the same 14M sensor as the NEX3/5/VG10.

I'd expect Sony to be pretty busy closing out 2010...

Steve Mullen · August 18th, 2010, 08:17 AM

For those who want 24p I'm thinking there should be software that can read 120 frames of 30p into a buffer. Each frame is 1/30 the second apart.

Now if we impose on this buffer a series of 120 slots 1/24th second apart, there will be some frames of input that will line up with the slots.

For those slots that don't line up, some will be close to a prior or next frame -- so use put it into the slot.

When a slots is midway between frames, blend the frames.

Now output the 120 slots at 24p.

The danger is that a cadence is formed which would be visible.

The alternative is to apply motion estimation the 120 slots from the 120 framed. Obviously this should be better looking but it will take a long time to compute.

Back in the days og JVCs HD10 I seem to remember that there was software that could do this conversion without causing any frames to be dropped. It worked with progressive! (interlace is easier.)

Anyone remember it's name?

PS: since one is not likely to go to film these days, it might be possible to lay a 2:3 pulldown pattern on the 120 frames and output 1080i60/24p ready to burn to BD.

Robert Batta · August 19th, 2010, 05:44 AM

Michael Liebergot · August 20th, 2010, 09:09 AM

I'd love to hear an English translation of this.
I will say that there wasn't much of a DSLR look to the footage.
As there wasn't much DOF to it. As the aperture seemed to be closed down quite a bit.
Looked kind of video cameraish if you ask me.

August 16th, 2010, 10:37 PM	#322
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	I think it may depend on whether they just stick a few features (like XLR) on the existing VG10, or up the ante to an NX sized cam with features more comparable to an EX1. Or maybe, in good time, all of the above :) __________________ Bob

August 18th, 2010, 08:17 AM	#328
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	30p to 24p For those who want 24p I'm thinking there should be software that can read 120 frames of 30p into a buffer. Each frame is 1/30 the second apart. Now if we impose on this buffer a series of 120 slots 1/24th second apart, there will be some frames of input that will line up with the slots. For those slots that don't line up, some will be close to a prior or next frame -- so use put it into the slot. When a slots is midway between frames, blend the frames. Now output the 120 slots at 24p. The danger is that a cadence is formed which would be visible. The alternative is to apply motion estimation the 120 slots from the 120 framed. Obviously this should be better looking but it will take a long time to compute. Back in the days og JVCs HD10 I seem to remember that there was software that could do this conversion without causing any frames to be dropped. It worked with progressive! (interlace is easier.) Anyone remember it's name? PS: since one is not likely to go to film these days, it might be possible to lay a 2:3 pulldown pattern on the 120 frames and output 1080i60/24p ready to burn to BD. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

August 19th, 2010, 05:44 AM	#329
Robert Batta Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hungary / Europe Posts: 128	SONY NEX-VG10 - VJ (Videojournalist) SONY NEX-VG10 - VJ (Videojournalist) on Vimeo __________________ Robert Batta my stock video portfolio : https://www.pond5.com/artist/skysuta Pond5 – the world’s first web-based stock footage marketplace –

August 20th, 2010, 09:09 AM	#330
Michael Liebergot Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,505	I'd love to hear an English translation of this. I will say that there wasn't much of a DSLR look to the footage. As there wasn't much DOF to it. As the aperture seemed to be closed down quite a bit. Looked kind of video cameraish if you ask me. __________________ Michael www.lvpvideo.com

August 15th, 2010, 10:53 PM	#316
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Well, there is going to be some activity on Aug 24th, but I believe it will all be about the new Alpha mount.bodies, the rumble on the street is 4 new models, two A5xx series replacements w/video, and two new animals using a pellix mirror design specifically to facilitate faster focus for video. I'm leaning towards something in that vein, at least so far, though I doubt they will have the same sexy vibe the VG10 has. I don't see any reason why Sony can't issue a "pro" model of the VG10, although the basic design is pretty sleek/bare bones. I suspect when they showed the prototype a few months ago, they were testing the waters, and found them to be filled with hungry "large sensor" pirahna... so followup models would be no surprise. I know the whole E mount apparently evolved out of the need for a new lens design that could better accomodate video. Sony is coming "fashionably late" the the SLR/large sensor party, but they are coming with some fresh new ideas, that's always exciting. Glen, since I know DVi doesn't generally sanction "rumors", if you're interested in possible future developments, google "sony alpha rumours", as well as Dyxum, those sites are more oriented towards the SLR (dyxum actually may declare you heretical you if you mention video being of importance - they are hardcore still oriented), both have some discussion on video (not much, nor as thorough as here!!). Hopefully as the situation develops, Chris can build out the Sony forums as the still and video sides converge.

August 16th, 2010, 07:38 AM	#318
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	Dave and Robert, Thank you for the links. But it doesn't look like Sony will have a professional model anytime soon. Based on what I've read, there is no real news of a pro model. It's not even a rumor, more like a writer's wish list. That doesn't mean it won't happen, I just don't see any definite news. We do know Sony displayed a prototype of a large sensor pro model at NAB, but it's way more than $2,000. There might be a new video-capable Sony DSLR, but I prefer the video camera body style. I do find it interesting that on the DSLR forums, they're speculating that the E-mount system will expand and give us more lens choices. I think for this year, we'll just have the VG10. And if there is a new pro model, it will most certainly be priced around the other pro model camcorders. So, the VG10 will still be in a class by itself.

August 16th, 2010, 11:26 AM	#319
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	I suspect the VG10 will be somewhat like the old HC1 - a breakout product to open the door to future development - so the "possiblity" of an A1U equivalent is there. The VG10 is a "first test shot" if you will. The entire NEX series with it's E mount is "uncharted territory", and so far has apparently been wildly sucessful despite some interface stumbles on a "1st gen" product. We do know that the E mount (with the new lenses) was designed to avoid some of the inherent issues in trying to use a DSLR for video I do find the inclusion of the alpha flash shoe to be intrigueing. Sony has in the past put some interesting features on their proprietary shoes, although it's a long shot... in theory they "could" have put an interface of some sort up there for an XLR box, although I'd sincerely doubt it. I'm mixed on the DSLR form factor for video, but I can go either way, depending on the features. I do expect the lens options available for the E mount to open up, there are already third party options to mount a number of "other" manufacturers lenses via adapters. I'd rather like to play with a tilt shift adapter someday myself!

August 17th, 2010, 07:34 AM	#323
Paul Dickin Tourist Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Bristol Posts: 2	Hi I would guess that any 'pro' version of the VG10 made available this year would be like the CX550V/MC50 versioning - a different colour but functionally identical, with minor add-on accessories, and a logo redesign... (So as to allow Sony Pro Video dealers a slice of the action). Rumoured for an announcement at Photokina is an upgraded/rechipped NEX-7 still camera, and if correct that would be a more likely basis for a proper Pro EX-1 type offering: Sony NEX-7 with 1080p coming later in 2010 - SlashGear 720p120!!!

August 17th, 2010, 07:52 AM	#324
Glen Vandermolen Space Hipster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,596	So the NEX-7 will have a more capable sensor than the NEX 3/5 - and the VG10. And it will do 60i, 24P and 30P, and an incredible 720/120P! Methinks Sony should delay the VG10 until it can also get these goodies. Hmmm...maybe a VG20 coming soon?

August 17th, 2010, 09:20 PM	#327
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Supposedly the NEX 7 is a bit behind schedule - BUT, I notice that the specs for two of the cameras supposed to hit on the 24th of this month show a 16Mpixel sensor - may be the anticipated "better" sensor, since the other two cameras appear to perhaps have the same 14M sensor as the NEX3/5/VG10. I'd expect Sony to be pretty busy closing out 2010...