Sony NEX-VG10 AVCHD E-Mount Lens Camcorder

[Bruce Dempsey]

I don't mean to plegarize but I copied and pasted this from here: XDCAM-USER.com Sony NEX-VG10 APS-C Camcorder Launched, available September.
and a couple really short clips from the nex-vg10 here: http://www.xdcam-user.com/wp-content.../nex-clips.zip

"HANDS ON: I managed to get a brief play with one today. First off it’s very small and light, but with the supplied lens makes it quite front heavy. The LCD is clear and easy to see, however I did find focusing tricky with the LCD but I did not have time to see if there was any kind of focus assist system or peaking control. With the supplied lens you turn the forward ring to zoom and rear ring to focus. It was quite stiff turning the zoom ring and very difficult to do in shot zooms as you tend to twist the whole camera as you rotate the zoom ring. As well as the focus ring on the lens there is a dial behind the LCD screen that controls many functions including menu navigation, but this is also marked as a focus control. It was very strange holding a camcorder but not having any kind of zoom control. The menu system is quite logically laid out and easy to find your way around. I did shoot some clips with it and could see no signs of any aliasing which is very promising indeed. As expected it had pleasing shallow DoF but the low light performance was disappointing as it didn’t seem to perform as well as I had hoped. In some respects this may be an advantage as it helps get a shallow DoF. It also has to be remembered that the stock lens is only f3.5 compared to the f1.9 of a EX camcorder, so overall low light performance may not be as bad as it appeared. The pictures look very promising, it’s not a particularly expensive camcorder and for video, ergonomically it’s much better than a DSLR. I’m sure this will be popular with those that are seeking the filmic look.

[Glen Vandermolen]

Nice review. I like the lack of aliasing - very positive. i guess if my video camera lens could only open to 3.5f, the image would appear dark. But I don't know how DSLR lenses translate to video lenses.

[Robert Young]

The DOF tricks look great, but hard to tell re the overall image quality- I'm not sure if it's any better than we are used to from the little CX550.
Low light shots look O.K., but not great- blacks look pretty clean even with high gain, but I'm thinking that to get really best quality low light shots will require a much faster lens than the f 3.5.
Hopefully we will soon see more footage and some detailed hands on reviews.

[Robert Young]

Here's another footage link:
YouTube - ‪Sony NEX-VG10‬‎
This is interesting to me as it is an example of how the cam renders fast motion (big birds flying around).
I had some concern re the 30p in 60i format, but the shots look quite smooth.

[Chris Barcellos]

Originally Posted by Robert Batta

NEX-VG10 TEST - Sony NEX-VG10 User Group on Vimeo

I was kind of hoping that Sony would beat the moire and aliasing issues that the big sensor cameras seem to have, but at :35 in this film (city roof tops) it look like it is there.

[Robert Young]

Originally Posted by Chris Barcellos

I was kind of hoping that Sony would beat the moire and aliasing issues that the big sensor cameras seem to have, but at :35 in this film (city roof tops) it look like it is there.

Good eye, Chris! I can really see it on the 2nd, tighter rooftop shot.
Do you think it could be a web encoding issue rather than the camera?
I always feel a little uncertain when I spot something on web footage.
However, my CX550 keeps looking better and better.
Do I really need another camera...

[Chris Barcellos]

That roof top moire does not look like an encoding issue to me. Some of the straight line aliasing may be.

[Chuck Fadely]

It doesn't look like the Sony NEX-VG10 will have any audio recording level controls? Can someone confirm or deny this?

It looks like there is volume control on the headphone levels but not on recording levels? Can this be possible?

Oh, man, I was getting excited by this camera when I saw what Leica lenses look like on the NEX5 on Flickr... Hard earned money | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

[Dave Blackhurst]

Red tile rooftops sure seem to bring out the worst in these hybrid sensor cameras... I noticed it too, along with some RS skew in fast panning, but I can edit out fast pans... the moire and aliasing present a more problematic issue, as they always have in DSLR footage I've seen. When they are good, they are very good, but when they are "bad"... they not so great.

I've got no doubts whatsoever that I'll eventually add "something" with shallow DoF, either along the lines of the VG10, or more likely one of the new Alpha series cameras with video... but it will be for specific shots, and unfortuantely won't be a "replacement" for a regular video camera (I'm with Robert, my CX550V's are looking better and better, with a couple CX500V's for multiangle, since they use the same sensor block and menus).

I see the VG10 as a "hybrid" more oriented towards the "video" side of the equation both in ergonomics and features (and it looks sexyier than a DSLR!), but for some people (myself in this camp), a camera skewed towards the "still" side with video capability might make the better choice...

FWIW, after playing with the DSC-TX1 and DSC-TX7, for "casual" shooting of both stills and video, you learn to work within the compromises of the design and just enjoy the relatively impressive results...

Chuck -
The NEX5 seems like a pretty sweet little still camera from what I've seen, those shots definitely "pop", and the interchangeable lens possibilities with the "E" mount are what will rocket this product line to the top of the sales charts, IMO.

Heck I will be keeping an eye out for the "I bought this camera and it's too complicated for me" resales of VG10's... what it does offer is interesting enough (and did I mention it's "sexy" compared to an old DSLR?) to make me want one!

[Robert Young]

Everything I have read confirms that there is no audio level recording control on the VG 10.
The other issue that is a potential deal killer for me is that with the lens adaptor and A series lenses you can operate only in manual focus (acceptable), BUT there is no way to adjust the f stop- manual or otherwise- you can shoot video only with the lens wide open (not so acceptable).
The more I learn about the VG10, I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that I might best wait for this Sony APS line to mature a little more before jumping in.
I look at the phenomonal product improvement from the Sony SR12, to the XR 520, to the current CX550 and can't help but think a similar evolution will occur with the VG10 line if it really takes off.
It does look absolutely sexy- on that basis alone, I'm sure they'll sell like hotcakes :)

[Steve Mullen]

"you can shoot video only with the lens wide open (not so acceptable)"

Assuming this were to be true -- one could only use shutter-speed to control exposure. On a bright day this might require a speed faster than possible. Of course ND filters could be used.

It seems unlikely Sony would develop an adaptor knowing it would be near impossible to shoot with it. I see no reason a lens with an aperature control would suddenly lose its ability to dial in an aperature.

Perhaps you mean lenses without an manual aperature?

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Chuck Fadely

It doesn't look like the Sony NEX-VG10 will have any audio recording level controls? Can someone confirm or deny this?

It looks like there is volume control on the headphone levels but not on recording levels? Can this be possible?]

Of course-- because there is no need for a control in the world of digital audio.

All that's needed is camera have a LIMITER (not an AGC) that prevents clipping at 0VU AND a mic that matches the sensitivity of the VG10 specification.

By using a mic with a matching sensitivity you prevent two issues:

1) signal levels so high they force the limiter to always be on.

2) signals so low that soft sounds will record down in the noise levels.

When you feed a digital system a signal that matches ITS sensitivity, the inherent range of digital audio is wide enough to handle the full sound level reaching the mic.

If you are using a mic mixer you use the Master to set the output level to match the camera and then adjust the mics relative to each other. If you are using a wireless mic -- look for one that has an adjustable output.

But, for the intended market, none of these should be an issue.

PS: there is one nasty. If you want to record 2 separate channels. The limiter may affect both channels. You'll need a mixer.

[Robert Young]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

"you can shoot video only with the lens wide open (not so acceptable)"

Assuming this were to be true -- one could only use shutter-speed to control exposure. On a bright day this might require a speed faster than possible. Of course ND filters could be used.

It seems unlikely Sony would develop an adaptor knowing it would be near impossible to shoot with it. I see no reason a lens with an aperature control would suddenly lose its ability to dial in an aperature.

Perhaps you mean lenses without an manual aperature?

Steve,
The footnotes on the VG10 Sony Style webpage state that with the adaptor + the Sony A Class lenses you can shoot only manual focus and full open aperture.
I'm not really familiar with the Sony A lenses- f-stop may be camera only controlled with no aperture ring for true manual setting.

[Steve Mullen]

I was thinking of Minolta lenses, but it looks like the Minolta A-mounts may only support fully auto mode introduced with the MAXXON in 1985. These seem not to have an iris ring!

But, I remember reading K-mounts were also supported. These, I hope were fully manual.

Still looking.

[Dave Blackhurst]

No aperture rings on the A mounts I've got... the variable aperature ones change with zoom. So that would make the A mount lenses a bit problematic, never thought of that issue.

This may turn out to be one of those places where the already prolific E mount adapters come in quite handy... when you have a wide selection of possible lenses via adapter, it's not so important what "mount" your imager has, only that it has the desired qualities for recording what passes through the lens.