Sony NEX-VG10 AVCHD E-Mount Lens Camcorder

[Ron Evans]

Mike if you do not want to have a shallow depth of field or change lenses then there seems to be no point in getting the VG10, that's most of the reason. If you shoot fast motion then that is also a negative since the VG10 appears to shoot 30p in a 60i stream. Unless others have a different point of view the VG10 is not for you.

Sony XR cameras have hard drives the CX flash memory. So the XR550 has a hard drive the CX550 has flash memory otherwise they are the same camera( the CX is a little smaller since it has flash memory not a hard drive to house).

Ron Evans

[Michael Murie]

Originally Posted by Monday Isa

Actually Michael there is not tapeless version of the FX7. It's a 3CMOS 1/4" chips. The AX2000 is the tapeless version of the FX1000 which is the upgrade of the FX1. Which all 3 of those are 1/3" chips while the fx7 is 1/4".

Ahh, I didn't realize the FX7 only had 1.4" chips.

Also, the FX1 has CCDs, not CMOS.



Either way, I think I'd rather have a AX2000 than an NEX-VG120. But the NEX-VG10 vs the FX7, that's a lot harder to decide; probably risk the NEX-VG10.

[Dave Blackhurst]

Hi Mike -

Can't blame you for keeping the FX7 one bit, it's a good camera, and yours has added sentimental value!

Think of the VG10 like an SLR - it complements the CX550... or other traditional video camera.

The CX550 has a huge DoF, virtually unlimited recording time, and of course the 550's have an unusually wide "wide end" of the lens range (it's like putting a .7x WA adapter on your SR11, or XR500). I was worried about the long end, but frankly even when using the digital zoom, the "R" sensor stays pretty darn clean through a good part of the zoom range. The optical zoom is no great shakes, but I've always put the digital zoom on "in case" and tried to stay "below the line" that shows up in the sony zoom indicator. In the 550's they only put a single digital zoom setting (150x), where earlier there was a "digital doubler" option (20x), which I preferred, as signal degradation wasn't bad, and it left you with a more controllable optical/digital "mix".

The VG10 gives you the ability to get really shallow DoF, and mount other lenses for special purposes, but still in a relatively small handheld package. Optical zoom will be lens dependent. IIRC the IS moved into the lens, which may or may not be good, I'm spoiled by the OIS of the CX500/520/550, which added even more stability to the XR500 OIS. I don't know yet whether I'll go VG10, or whether I'll pick up one of the new Alpha bodies with video - I know I want the ability to do the shallow DoF "glamour" shots, one way or another.


They are two very different tools in design and execution, where the AX2000/FX1000 are more traditional "video cameras". Personally I prefer a smaller camera, thus why the FX7 sits in such a unique spot.


As Ron already clarified, traditionally in Sony model nomenclature, SR and XR designated HDD cameras, while CX series had no onboard memory, no viewfinder, no I/O options for headphone/mic, and recorded to MS Duo.

The CX550, released simultaneously with the XR550 departed from this tradition, adding 64G onboard flash in addition to the MS Duo/SDHC slot, mic and headphone jacks, and a viewfinder, all still in a small light package - basically an XR without a HDD, and IMO a close to perfect package. I always liked the CX's for size and weight, but the lack of features could be frustrating, the CX550V hits the correct mix IMO. I know what you mean about it being hard to find the higher end cameras if you're more "rural" - our "local" "small footprint" BB barely stocks anything, and rarely has any "high end" to be found... I can say I don't think you'd be disappointed in upgrading your SR11 to anything with the "R" CMOS, I didn't expect it to be as much improved as it was.

[Mike Burgess]

Thanks Dave. You have helped me clear some of the haze that was fogging my thought process (either that or my trifocals are dirty). I will have to take a closer look, maybe when I travel down to Chicago in a week or so.

I appreciate all the comments and help from you all, especially Ron and Dave. I always enjoy reading your posts.

Mike

[Ozzy Alvarez]

I don't know if the argument about the VG10 being an inerlaced camcorder or it being a progressive camcorder that interlaces the video is still ongoing or not, but, here's what I found on Sony's website.

The NEX-VG10 has the same sensor format that Sony builds into the full-sized α DSLRs. Video is captured at 1920x1080 30p (29.97i) and recorded in AVCHD 60i (59.94i) format. With 19.5 times the surface area of conventional camcorders, the large Exmor™ APS HD CMOS sensor makes capturing cinematic video with a shallow depth of field a breeze.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666239819#additionalImage1"

[Ron Evans]

Just like the still cameras in the E series it will record the whole frame. Likely the electronics cannot manage this at 60P ( yet) so 30P is it. For playback compatibility on TV's it needs to be 60i.

For 30P in AVCHD 60i each odd and even field does belong to the same frame so "adding" them together will create a 30P stream. A true 60i stream is constructed from fields that do not belong to common exposure frames. The fields are actually taken 1/60 sec apart. ie a 60i camera is a 60P camera that only records or transmits a field for each of its exposure frames. Sometimes the fields are scanned as fields and other times ( like the new Panasonic TM700) they are full progressive frames.

So with this in mind the VG10 will have the temporal motion of 30P even if watched at 60i. This will fit nicely for shallow depth of field film type shooting but will have judder when panning or shooting motion that moves across the screen. Just like 24P.

I think Sony have been quite smart. This camera will give a sort of film look on whatever its played back on.

Ron Evans

[Glen Vandermolen]

I wonder, what will the video quality be like in comparison to a 2/3" HD cam? With that large sensor and interchangeable lenses, it might even make better video. It will most certainly have better depth of field control. And all this for $2,000? It may be marketed as a consumer cam, but I intend to use it professionally. I can't wait to get my hands on one.

If you go on a certain forum site that deals mainly with 24P products, they're tearing this camera a new one. How dare Sony only offer interlaced? Blah, blah...
I don't care. Most everything I shoot goes directly to broadcast, so I'm comfortable with 60i, or 30P, or whatever it shoots in.

[Robert Young]

Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen

If you go on a certain forum site that deals mainly with 24P products, they're tearing this camera a new one. How dare Sony only offer interlaced? Blah, blah...
I don't care. Most everything I shoot goes directly to broadcast, so I'm comfortable with 60i, or 30P, or whatever it shoots in.

Folks who shoot 24p seem to be quite passionate about it, and seem to have a high profile presence on these forums. However, my best guess is that the actual fraction of delivered commercial video programs that are 24p is quite small. To read these forums, one would almost get the idea that 60i is actually dead, 30p still breathing, but not deeply.
I suspect that in the day to day world of commercial video production, 60i is probably still #1, 30p a significant #2, (60p an up and coming), and 24p a distant third.
Sony certainly must have a good feel for these numbers, know it's target marketplace rather well, and have some pretty solid ideas of where the camera sales are going to be.
30p in 60i wrapper: Gets the 30p crowd, works natively with all 60i postproduction pipelines, goes to Blu Ray Disk 1920 60i without a hitch- I thought it was pretty clever of Sony. It straddles all of the markets except 24p.

[Bill Koehler]

Originally Posted by Robert Young

30p in 60i wrapper: Gets the 30p crowd, works natively with all 60i postproduction pipelines, goes to Blu Ray Disk 1920 60i without a hitch- I thought it was pretty clever of Sony. It straddles all of the markets except 24p.

And the version for the PAL world, at 50i/25p gets sooo close.

[Robert Young]

True fact!!

[Glen Vandermolen]

Originally Posted by Robert Young

Folks who shoot 24p seem to be quite passionate about it, and seem to have a high profile presence on these forums. However, my best guess is that the actual fraction of delivered commercial video programs that are 24p is quite small. To read these forums, one would almost get the idea that 60i is actually dead, 30p still breathing, but not deeply.
I suspect that in the day to day world of commercial video production, 60i is probably still #1, 30p a significant #2, (60p an up and coming), and 24p a distant third.
Sony certainly must have a good feel for these numbers, know it's target marketplace rather well, and have some pretty solid ideas of where the camera sales are going to be.
30p in 60i wrapper: Gets the 30p crowd, works natively with all 60i postproduction pipelines, goes to Blu Ray Disk 1920 60i without a hitch- I thought it was pretty clever of Sony. It straddles all of the markets except 24p.

This may be the best explanation I've heard yet. I'll get plenty of use out of 1080/60i.

[Ozzy Alvarez]

I take it that with the proper software, one could retain the original 30P from the 60i, if one chooses to. Any good de-interlacing software anyone would recommend for such a task?

[Robert Young]

The typical "deinterlacing" software that we use for true 60i to 30p conversion would not be recommended, as it would alter the fields in its attempt to "blend" them into single frames.
I have no first hand experience with this yet, but some posters have indicated that simply importing the clips to a 30p timeline is all that's needed. Apparently, the NLE should interpret the footage correctly.
That will be sweet, if it's really that simple.

[Robert Young]

There's been a lot of speculation as to the level of function of the Sony A lenses with the VG10, particularly regarding f-stop control by the camera.
I just discovered a footnote on the main Sony Style VG10 webpage that confirms the bad news:

"3. Attaching Sony A-mount lens requires LA-EA1 adaptor (sold separately). Manual focus and full open aperture shooting only."

I guess there's always hope that Sony might cook up something like an f 1.4, 50mm prime E type video lens if this line of cams is successful. I'm concerned that the VG10 will not provide the CX550 class of low light performance with only f 3.5 max aperture.
An f 1.4 lens would be around 4 stops faster- an entire world of difference for available light photography.

[Wacharapong Chiowanich]

Originally Posted by Robert Young

.............I thought it was pretty clever of Sony. It straddles all of the markets except 24p.

Absolutely agree with you on this. And in the PAL world, this means they basically aim to take all the markets, even part of the NTSC's 24p market as well.