Sony NEX-VG10 AVCHD E-Mount Lens Camcorder

[Dave Blackhurst]

Hi Mike -
Thing is, the two cams you've got are pretty good! I tend to upgrade fairly regularly, and I would recommend you retire the SR11 for the CX550V - big leap with the R CMOS, OIS and low light performance, but then again, it'd make the FX7 look outdated...

The VG10 also beckons me (funny, cause the concpt model was fugly...). I see it being a possibly good fit with my Alpha gear on the still side...

but I'm still waiting to see what hits in the actual Alpha mount SLR department - there were a couple mockups shown, but it's almost like Sony shifted gears completely when the NEX stuff became a reality. I do know that the delay in entry to the SLR market had to do with not being able to effectively use the Alpha lenses for video in auto modes (thus the "E" mount was born), so I'm mixed - this camera with perhaps the rumoured NEX7 body for stills (which I suspect may also be the rumoured A33/A55 project, but those are supposed to be "A" mounts...) would make a compact "system".

The VG10 definitely has a certain "sex appeal" to it!

[Bill Koehler]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

It is perfect Sony marketing driven design. The things like no XLRs is a nit since most shooting at this price range is done with either a highly directional on-camera mic or a 2-channel wireless receiver that plugs into a 1/8" stereo jack. No audio gain control is solved with a tone generator into one channel.

Would it also be because the low budget film maker is recording second system sound?
So all they need is something they can sync to? Just asking...

[Brian Drysdale]

It's less likely that low budget film makers, unless they're shooting dramas would want to get involved in double system sound, it's a lot of extra work syncing everything up in post. Plus, unless you've got time code, you need to use a clapper board or other sync mark while shooting - lip syncing by eye is time consuming..

[Mike Burgess]

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

Hi Mike -
Thing is, the two cams you've got are pretty good! I tend to upgrade fairly regularly, and I would recommend you retire the SR11 for the CX550V - big leap with the R CMOS, OIS and low light performance, but then again, it'd make the FX7 look outdated...

The VG10 also beckons me (funny, cause the concpt model was fugly...). I see it being a possibly good fit with my Alpha gear on the still side...

but I'm still waiting to see what hits in the actual Alpha mount SLR department - there were a couple mockups shown, but it's almost like Sony shifted gears completely when the NEX stuff became a reality. I do know that the delay in entry to the SLR market had to do with not being able to effectively use the Alpha lenses for video in auto modes (thus the "E" mount was born), so I'm mixed - this camera with perhaps the rumoured NEX7 body for stills (which I suspect may also be the rumoured A33/A55 project, but those are supposed to be "A" mounts...) would make a compact "system".

The VG10 definitely has a certain "sex appeal" to it!

So the CS550V(VG10) is that much different from the SR11 to make it even less compatible with the FX7?
Wow! That gives me something to think about!

[Paul Dickin]

Originally Posted by Steve Kalle

Well, if the Alpha lenses do NOT have even aperture control, then this camera is a complete piece of junk. ...

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

Everything I've read says the Alpha adapter allows for aperature control, but focus is only manual. While the NEX series share a common sensor/lens mount, and no doubt some of the "guts", there's probably LOTS of flexibility in how the firmware and user interface (widely criticized in the NEX still camera reviews I've seen) are implemented...

Hi
Someone I read quoted that although the NEX still cameras have aperture control through the Alpha lens adapter, on the VG10 it was (on the prototype) disabled because the Alpha still camera lenses don't have stepless apertures, so all sorts of momentary exposure problems rear their head if you video with them during zooming (as the lens ramps), or changing light levels with a prime lens.

I think it was one of the people who handled the prototype in Switzerland, but I can't find the link :(

[Robert Young]

Hmmm...
That actually makes sense and certainly would be a significant negative issue for the VG10.

[Monday Isa]

Originally Posted by Paul Dickin

Hi
Someone I read quoted that although the NEX still cameras have aperture control through the Alpha lens adapter, on the VG10 it was (on the prototype) disabled because the Alpha still camera lenses don't have stepless apertures, so all sorts of momentary exposure problems rear their head if you video with them during zooming (as the lens ramps), or changing light levels with a prime lens.

I think it was one of the people who handled the prototype in Switzerland, but I can't find the link :(

That makes perfect sense. It's all making sense now. Hopefully they will enable it prior to release.

[Dave Blackhurst]

IIRC from the discussions that were reported with Sony execs, these "issues" were part of why Sony DSLR-V's weren't showing up to the party (there are apparently two SLR's and two mirrorless bodies coming VERY soon). I suspect Sony wants a "smoother" end user experience rather than the "creative" approach that most DSLR users have taken up to this point.

Sony's "answer" apparently was the "E" mount, with an entirely new line of lenses optimized for video... I'm waiting to see what they do with the A550 replacements, which will still use the Alpha glass but have video. Sony is walking an interesting path, as there's a substantial community of Minolta/Konica users that were promised continuity and future enhancements with the Alpha mount... so do they allow Alpha mount with "issues" and a standard DSLR format, or do the put the $$$ into the "E" ticket, or BOTH?

I know if I can get a video capable Alpha body for those DoF shots, I'd just as soon keep my existing glass than buying new lenses, as the Alpha covers the "still" side primarily, and video as an "extra"...

The VG10 is a different animal as it comes at things the other way around, but it has its own appeal.


Mike -
I hear ya on the "sentimental" value of the FX7, I miss mine, was hoping it wouldn't be long before Sony hit with a similar tapeless camera - whoops. The VG10 is the first cam that's caught my eye in a "big" camera, definitely will be checking it out, but my CX550's cover me very nicely right now. And yes, the improvement between the CMOS in the SR11 and the "R" CMOS that showed up in the XR500 is substantial. It's the same sensor as in the 550, but the rest of the camera has been refined significantly along the way - the 550 OIS is impressive in smoothing out bumps, 3.5" LCD is finally about right for "older" eyes, I personally like they finally put a VF on the CX (flash memory) series, previously you had to have one of the HDD cams.

[Bill Koehler]

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

It's less likely that low budget film makers, unless they're shooting dramas would want to get involved in double system sound, it's a lot of extra work syncing everything up in post. Plus, unless you've got time code, you need to use a clapper board or other sync mark while shooting - lip syncing by eye is time consuming..

I record second system sound with some frequency, no time code, no clapper.
I align the 2nd system sound waveform with the camcorder waveform. Really not that difficult.
But it is usually a music program, The aggressive leading edge attack envelopes make it easy.
So I guess those are my "clappers".

If it was just voice, or soft and indistinct (background nature sounds for instance) you're right, it would be much harder (impossible?) without the clapper.

[Michael Murie]

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

I hear ya on the "sentimental" value of the FX7, I miss mine, was hoping it wouldn't be long before Sony hit with a similar tapeless camera - whoops.

The tapeless version of the FX7 is already out; the HDR-AX2000. Not a bad camera - even if it doesn't match the hoped for depth of field of the NEX-VG10. It does have three chips though.

[Monday Isa]

Originally Posted by Michael Murie

The tapeless version of the FX7 is already out; the HDR-AX2000. Not a bad camera - even if it doesn't match the hoped for depth of field of the NEX-VG10. It does have three chips though.

Actually Michael there is not tapeless version of the FX7. It's a 3CMOS 1/4" chips. The AX2000 is the tapeless version of the FX1000 which is the upgrade of the FX1. Which all 3 of those are 1/3" chips while the fx7 is 1/4".

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Bill Koehler

Would it also be because the low budget film maker is recording second system sound?
So all they need is something they can sync to? Just asking...

You could do that. There is a flash unit you could mount on the VG10. Set the flash off manually and typically there is POP your mic might pick up and you'll see the flash.

But, what I meant was that for docs wireless mics are used. For narrative, wireless mic on a boom is used.

The wireless receiver connects via a 1/8th plug.

[Mike Burgess]

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

"...

The VG10 is a different animal as it comes at things the other way around, but it has its own appeal.


Mike -
I hear ya on the "sentimental" value of the FX7, I miss mine, was hoping it wouldn't be long before Sony hit with a similar tapeless camera - whoops. The VG10 is the first cam that's caught my eye in a "big" camera, definitely will be checking it out, but my CX550's cover me very nicely right now. And yes, the improvement between the CMOS in the SR11 and the "R" CMOS that showed up in the XR500 is substantial. It's the same sensor as in the 550, but the rest of the camera has been refined significantly along the way - the 550 OIS is impressive in smoothing out bumps, 3.5" LCD is finally about right for "older" eyes, I personally like they finally put a VF on the CX (flash memory) series, previously you had to have one of the HDD cams.

The sentimental value of my FX7 is due to the fact that it belonged to my best friend, whom I had talked in to getting this camcorder. We were both to get an FX7 at the same time, but I couldn't afford it yet. When he got the cam, we were both so impressed with the PQ over what we had. He has since passed away, leaving the cam to me which I cherish to this day.
As for the AX2000 (FX1000) not being its replacement due to the chip size, for all intents and purposes they are the replacement, at least to me. I am still impressed with the PQ of the FX7 and probably would be even more impressed with that of the FX1000/AX2000.

As for the difference between the SR11 and XR/CX550, I will have to check one out if I can find one around here. BB is the only place besides Sears that sell these things up here that I know of, and BB only has the XR, so no chance on look through the VF (only the LcD). Now if only they could produce something like the VG10, but with a 20X zoom (standard). I guess there's always next year.

[Ron Evans]

Mike , the XR has the viewfinder. It was the first CX series that didn't have the viewfinder. I can confirm that the XR500 is visibly better than the SR11 frankly challenges my NX5U. All are better than my FX1( which is why I got the NX5U)

Ron Evans

[Mike Burgess]

Thanks Ron. Sounds like the XR would be the one for me. However, I am disappointed that it does not have a better zoom (ditto the SR11). Even though I have read this entire thread, I can't remember many of the details. So, please have patience with me as I ask: How is the VG10 different from the XR 550/500 other than the ability to switch lenses? And, since I mainly shoot outdoors (nature, scenery, trains, Blue Angels), would the shallow DOF be a problem for me?

Thanks.
Mike