Colour Curves and Pricture Profiles at DVinfo.net

Chris Harding · June 15th, 2015, 07:51 AM

Hi Guys

Enough of deciding on replacing cameras and finding nothing better value so here is a question for you experts on the above subject.

I shoot everything on a slightly modified PP3 profile which I'm sure you know gives a very lifeless flat colour when dropped onto the timeline but the overall balance is nice and even. On each of my tracks I always drop in a colour curves plugin that has the traditional gentle "S" curve which makes the image pop and gives it a nice brightness and contrast for a satisfying result .... the PP3 seems to follow the straight line graph hence the need for the "S" profile. I'm sure you all use it to give your footage sparkle!

Now, has anyone figured out how we can "translate" the profile of the "S" colour curve and apply it to the PP3 profile by adjusting certain parameters??? It would be so much easier to have my footage with the curve profile "built-in" to the profile rather than have to apply it to every track in the timeline??

Chris

Serggio Lamas · June 15th, 2015, 08:46 AM

Hi Chris
apologize for the post here if you delete the post I got the answer for video
The frame rate IS 24fps with Nikon Lens 70-300 -50-and 35 without any picture profile

Dave Baker · June 15th, 2015, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Now, has anyone figured out how we can "translate" the profile of the "S" colour curve and apply it to the PP3 profile by adjusting certain parameters??? It would be so much easier to have my footage with the curve profile "built-in" to the profile rather than have to apply it to every track in the timeline??

You're joking, right Chris?:-)

If you apply a higher contrast profile in the camera, you will lose the extra dynamic range that shooting flat and correcting in post gives you.

Dave

Chris Harding · June 15th, 2015, 07:15 PM

Ok I'm totally confused why Serggio has posted this post here complaining about Sony ???

Does anyone know what is going on about the frame rate of the video he posted and what the exact issue is??

Back to the post ..No Dave I'm serious .. there are times when we don't need the DR to be so wide but applying mods to the profile based on your adjustments isn't that simple! Maybe better to just shoot flat and drop in the colour curve preset as a habit ... I have one preset for outdoors and one for indoors that allows a little more shadow detail to come thru so maybe that's the better way to go?

Dave Baker · June 16th, 2015, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Maybe better to just shoot flat and drop in the colour curve preset as a habit ... I have one preset for outdoors and one for indoors that allows a little more shadow detail to come thru so maybe that's the better way to go?

I would say yes, I've been doing it for a long time, assuming a correct exposure it avoids blocked up shadows and burnt out highlights, how well depends on how flat the image is shot. Perhaps instead of dynamic range, the usual description, I should have said tonal range.

Interestingly, since I changed from Kdenlive to Cinelerra as my NLE, I find I am getting better shadow detail, in fact the whole image looks smoother.

Dave

Chris Harding · June 16th, 2015, 02:40 AM

Hey Dave

I'm always looking for shortcuts but figured that I would then need two profiles on the camera which can get tricky if you are in and out of the sun and even indoors... it's actually easier to have two colour curves presets (which I already have) and drop the correct one onto the track according to shoot conditions

Chris

Dave Baker · June 16th, 2015, 10:06 AM

Chris, I think we're both saying the same thing in different words.

It looks like you are already doing what I do, which is keep the camera internal processing settings the same all the time, fairly flat and I keep the sharpening turned right down too, bringing it back to life in post.

I don't remember what Vegas calls an effect stack, but one is not enough to cope with indoors, outdoors, night time etc., as you say. Currently I am doing it manually as I get used to Cinelerra, but usually I drop a named stack on to a clip and make any minor tweaks I want. Mostly the tweaks are so minor they are almost unnecessary, but I have the luxury of no deadline to meet.

My stacks contain anything I may need so, for example, if I don't need denoising, I just disable it for that clip.

Dave

Chris Harding · June 16th, 2015, 06:21 PM

Now, just for interest, in their advanced manual on picture profiles Sony state that it's much better to adjust picture profiles in the camera than adjust in post because the adjustments are made to the video signal before it is processed. The idea here, which makes sense, allows for very quick post processing as the image technically shouldn't need adjusting in post ... however they are talking here about discussions with directors on set so one would assume that these are scenarios where the crew have a larger calibrated monitor and all gather around it while the cameraman adjusts the profile to everyone's liking

The other suggestion then is for time sensitive shoots just shoot as flat as you can and adjust everything in post.

Dave Baker · June 17th, 2015, 01:13 AM

The concensus is that the camera does not have the horsepower of a computer, therefore the in camera processing is second rate and should be turned off, or down as far as possible.

I only know that by shooting flat I get better shadow detail and less chance of blown out highlights, along with no visible sharpening artifacts, so it works for me.

Dave

June 15th, 2015, 07:51 AM	#1
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Colour Curves and Pricture Profiles Hi Guys Enough of deciding on replacing cameras and finding nothing better value so here is a question for you experts on the above subject. I shoot everything on a slightly modified PP3 profile which I'm sure you know gives a very lifeless flat colour when dropped onto the timeline but the overall balance is nice and even. On each of my tracks I always drop in a colour curves plugin that has the traditional gentle "S" curve which makes the image pop and gives it a nice brightness and contrast for a satisfying result .... the PP3 seems to follow the straight line graph hence the need for the "S" profile. I'm sure you all use it to give your footage sparkle! Now, has anyone figured out how we can "translate" the profile of the "S" colour curve and apply it to the PP3 profile by adjusting certain parameters??? It would be so much easier to have my footage with the curve profile "built-in" to the profile rather than have to apply it to every track in the timeline?? Chris

June 15th, 2015, 08:46 AM	#2
Serggio Lamas Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Germany Posts: 163	Re: Colour Curves and Pricture Profiles Hi Chris apologize for the post here if you delete the post I got the answer for video The frame rate IS 24fps with Nikon Lens 70-300 -50-and 35 without any picture profile Last edited by Serggio Lamas; June 16th, 2015 at 12:29 AM.

June 15th, 2015, 07:15 PM	#4
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Colour Curves and Pricture Profiles Ok I'm totally confused why Serggio has posted this post here complaining about Sony ??? Does anyone know what is going on about the frame rate of the video he posted and what the exact issue is?? Back to the post ..No Dave I'm serious .. there are times when we don't need the DR to be so wide but applying mods to the profile based on your adjustments isn't that simple! Maybe better to just shoot flat and drop in the colour curve preset as a habit ... I have one preset for outdoors and one for indoors that allows a little more shadow detail to come thru so maybe that's the better way to go?

June 16th, 2015, 02:40 AM	#6
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Colour Curves and Pricture Profiles Hey Dave I'm always looking for shortcuts but figured that I would then need two profiles on the camera which can get tricky if you are in and out of the sun and even indoors... it's actually easier to have two colour curves presets (which I already have) and drop the correct one onto the track according to shoot conditions Chris

June 16th, 2015, 10:06 AM	#7
Dave Baker Major Player Join Date: May 2014 Location: Brandon, England Posts: 465	Re: Colour Curves and Pricture Profiles Chris, I think we're both saying the same thing in different words. It looks like you are already doing what I do, which is keep the camera internal processing settings the same all the time, fairly flat and I keep the sharpening turned right down too, bringing it back to life in post. I don't remember what Vegas calls an effect stack, but one is not enough to cope with indoors, outdoors, night time etc., as you say. Currently I am doing it manually as I get used to Cinelerra, but usually I drop a named stack on to a clip and make any minor tweaks I want. Mostly the tweaks are so minor they are almost unnecessary, but I have the luxury of no deadline to meet. My stacks contain anything I may need so, for example, if I don't need denoising, I just disable it for that clip. Dave

June 16th, 2015, 06:21 PM	#8
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Colour Curves and Pricture Profiles Now, just for interest, in their advanced manual on picture profiles Sony state that it's much better to adjust picture profiles in the camera than adjust in post because the adjustments are made to the video signal before it is processed. The idea here, which makes sense, allows for very quick post processing as the image technically shouldn't need adjusting in post ... however they are talking here about discussions with directors on set so one would assume that these are scenarios where the crew have a larger calibrated monitor and all gather around it while the cameraman adjusts the profile to everyone's liking The other suggestion then is for time sensitive shoots just shoot as flat as you can and adjust everything in post.

June 17th, 2015, 01:13 AM	#9
Dave Baker Major Player Join Date: May 2014 Location: Brandon, England Posts: 465	Re: Colour Curves and Pricture Profiles The concensus is that the camera does not have the horsepower of a computer, therefore the in camera processing is second rate and should be turned off, or down as far as possible. I only know that by shooting flat I get better shadow detail and less chance of blown out highlights, along with no visible sharpening artifacts, so it works for me. Dave