Time to Replace Cameras -where to now?

Noa Put · June 14th, 2015, 05:40 AM

Shooting outside can be a problem because the viewfinder doesn't cover the eye like the eyecup of the ea50 does and the sun can seriously block your view if it shines between your eye and viewfinder. Shootng from an angle is also not that easy on the rx10 as I would have preferred a flipout screen like the gh4 has. You can choose between AVCHD and XAVCS.

Peter Rush · June 14th, 2015, 05:59 AM

I like the look of the flipout screen on the GH4 but the one of the RX10 looks similar to the one on my A7s and I'm getting used to that - maybe pop something like this on the shoe mount for sunny days.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pro-EVF-El...item35eaa608bc

Pete

Chris Harding · June 14th, 2015, 07:03 AM

Quite a few people do a GH series EVF or loupe so that wouldn't be an issue. The EA-50 loupe is much the same too .. I still have a couple of Hoodman loupes left over from my PannyAC-130 days and they come with an extension box that makes the loupe fit a 16:9 LCD

If you look at the price of a GH4 and some lenses it would probably come up to the same as the A7S roughly ... wouldn't it make more sense to buy a second A7S and not use the EA50 ??

Peter Rush · June 14th, 2015, 07:17 AM

Chris currently I only use the A7s for bride prep and evening receptions so maybe i'll try it for the rest of the day - bright sunlight would be a problem so I'll need to find a solution for that. As I'm typing I'm playing around with the A7s and 18-200mm f3.5/5.6 lens that came with my VG20 - the autofocus on the A7s is not too bad! Could be a solution here :)

Using this lens puts (I think) the A7s in APS-C mode so i'll need to do a direct comparison with the EA50/Canon F4 lens I use for ceremonies and speeches and see the difference in low light - I'll do it later this week.

Pete

Peter Rush · June 14th, 2015, 07:45 AM

I'm very impressed with the A7s autofocus - way much quicker than manual (fly by wire with the lens I'm using) and you can lock it really easily - awesome! plus the continuous AF while recording is smooooth!

However one solution always brings a problem - Only 1 card slot - the reason I bought the FMU was for peace of mind - I don't fancy attaching an external recorder - oh well :/

Chris Harding · June 14th, 2015, 08:06 AM

I cannot see why the A7S couldn't be used inside a Church even with a slow lens and that way you would have a pigeon pair. At ceremonies I have the static EA-50 in manual anyway and I'm sure that the A7S has the facility to frame, push the shutter half way and it's in focus ..it certainly has enough ISO in any Church. As for outdoor stuff a loupe or a LCD hood might be good enough to use?

I have a couple of these that work on LCD's well https://www.videoguys.com.au/Shop/p/...dMYaAoKC8P8HAQ

Probably 90% of my ceremonies here are outdoor so I would easily get away with the FZ1000 with all the bright sunshine we get .... I would have to play around with one for receptions but on the EA-50 I still need a light for the dancing even with the F1.8 Sigma lens as I lock the gain at 21db which is only around 2000ISO ... I think the FZ1000 would be pretty good at 3200 which is way more than the EA-50 can use!!

Chris

Peter Rush · June 14th, 2015, 08:39 AM

I have one of them for my 5D which would work Chris but I really do make use of the flip screen as when I'm filming people sat down at weddings I tend to shoot from the hip as it were, so with A7 I can just slide the LCD screen out to view it - same when it's a real crush I like to shoot by holding the camera over my head - again the LCD just tilts enough to let me do this - not as well as the EA50 but just enough.

I've just had a half hour filming the dog in the garden and to be honest the little viewfinder is not that bad - they eyecup is way too small and sony do not manufacture a better one, but I did see online a way of adapting a hoodman eyecup.

It always the same when looking into upgrading/alternatives that there is always something that ticks most of the boxes but never all of them :(

Serggio Lamas · June 14th, 2015, 09:16 AM

The ea50 is fantastic camera in 25p with good lens currently I think about it not to sell

Steven Davis · June 14th, 2015, 11:36 AM

A year and half ago, I bought two Canon XF300s. Other than the stupid FCPX glitch on the metadata, I've been pretty happy with them. As for the pre stuff at a wedding, I've switches to monopods and dslrs. It's just more flexible, unless were are doing photography and video, then I go back to tripods with the canons.

I do agree at the end of the day, it may not matter what you bring but how you use it. I can say that my steadicam is an eye opener at receptions, and our uniformity in cameras and clothing matters too.

So Chris, maybe do DSLR for your pre stuff and keep the big guns for the ceremony may help.

Steven Digges · June 14th, 2015, 03:10 PM

Chris,

I will play the devil’s advocate here just for fun. You’re not making sense. If this was really a black and white issue from a business perspective only I think you would be sticking with your EA50s. And I have an $800.00 solution to the size/weight issue.

I don’t need to write about what you shoot, format needs, etc. All of us regulars know about that. Suffice it to say you don’t need 4k and your current kit will technically meet your needs well for at least another year and maybe more. I don’t understand changing cameras and kit every two years based solely on time factor. That makes no sense to me? Two years in technological time is huge, but that is not your motivation. As a business decision, the longer you keep gear in use the greater the ROI. Using your EA50s for just one more wedding season would increase the return you got on your investment dramatically. I love every extra year I get out my cameras for that reason. I have been doing this for so long I have lost most of the thrill of getting new gear a long time ago. Upgrading anything means I am very honest about separating want vs. need. A major change like camera bodies means it has to have a real world impact on my product or my work flow. Based on your own information you do not have NEED to change.

As far as the weight and your back go I found a solution because I have the same problem. The EA50 is unique in that it has a hanycam little brother (so to speak) the VG30. I picked up a VG30 new/used off of e-bay because I wanted a light fly cam. A VG30 is literally the exact same guts as the EA50 has in a small light handycam. Same sensor, same processor, same lens mount, same image, same everything. I am blown away by how much I like it and use it. It turned out to be much more than just a fly cam. And it works with everything in my kit! I did not have to go through some big conversion process. I have the best of both worlds. You can pick them up used on e-bay for 800/900 bucks. I am now very happy with my 3 cam kit.

I shot a wedding a few weeks ago (yes unusual for me). I found the combination of the two EA50s and the VG30 to be stellar. At the reception I kept the EA50s on tripods for a solid main shot and I ran around handheld or black bird mounted with the VG30. It was perfect to give me multicam footage. Best of both worlds.

I think it is easy for you to look at the lower price of the cams your considering and say look at that, I can save money. I don’t see that happening. The body we choose is just a center piece of a big system. You are looking at a major conversion here by the time you build a new kit to be what you want it to be. You say you don’t like external recorders. You better change that thinking, they are a way of life if you go all DSLR. And by the time you “rig” your small cam with a light and audio and accessories I don’t see holding a rigged DSLR in front of you to really save your back much.

I see a hundred new posts coming from you as you ask the small cam guys for advice as you spend, spend, spend to build a whole new kit. It is a major change over.

If you want to change and go with new stuff that’s great. But add a VG30 to your existing kit and you could have it all.

Steve

David Banner · June 14th, 2015, 04:28 PM

If it weren't for the reason you mentioned about the size/weight of the cameras starting to become an issue then I would say stick with the EA50s for another season since we are in a transition period due to 4K and I believe that will affect HD camera offerings. Sony is rolling out new cameras already. As the manufacturers move to force 4K down our throats 1080P options will continue to get better. So this time next year there should be better cameras at a better value.....if you don't mind using the EA50s another season. :)

Chris Harding · June 14th, 2015, 07:38 PM

Thanks David and Steve

(I was hoping Steve would chip in!) That is a good idea actually! I never thought about VG30's light enough not to kill my back and matches the EA50 perfectly ... Funnily I'm quite happy to keep one EA-50 that I designate as my A-Cam ..it's on tripod for ceremony and speeches so that doesn't give me any back issues! It's the bugger on my shoulder that I need to change ...pop on the big Sigma and I'm already at nearly 5lbs on my shoulder and holding that up half the night is the killer ... I think Pete Rush is a lot younger than me and he complains too so it's no just me!!

Gotta take a look on eBay and see what VG30's are on offer. More options to look at ..I have just one EA-50 on eBay at the moment so it's highly likely I might just use one for A-Cam usage and a lighter one as my B-Cam

UPDATE: Woah!! I think I need to move to the USA! VG30's here retail for nearly $3000!! There was one used one for $2,0000 ...In the sub-$1000 category the best you can get is maybe a VG10 camera ...That sadly comes with the same stock lens as the EA-50 (well, 18-200 without the power zoom!) so that isn't going to perform any better than the EA-50 ..just a smaller body really but to work in low light I would be back to using the Sigma 18-35 F1.8 which weighs more than the camera by a LOT!!

Chris

Steven Digges · June 14th, 2015, 08:58 PM

Chris,

Hold on...it is e-bay. The prices go all over the map. They are always on there used for more than the NEW retail price. I don't know why? Body only there is two of them here for less than a grand and the e-bay "trending price" is listed at $1,049.00. I see them for 800/900 all the time. They will pop up for a reasonable price for you.

I think it is weird that B&H still has them new AND at about the same price as an EA50!

Steve

Chris Harding · June 14th, 2015, 09:24 PM

Thanks Steve

I still cannot see any "advantage" using a VG30 body sadly ..OK it weighs a lot less than a EA-50 body but really the difference is minimal as it's only plastic and electronics in there. The big issue for me is that to do wedding receptions the EA-50 "bits and pieces" still need a F1.8 zoom to be practical and not use a video light ..that's what is causing the problem for me ..it's the darn lens that adds the BIG weight ...an EA-50 body only is half the weight you need to carry .. the fast lens up front is the other half and it's all hanging off the front too ... no issues if you are on tripod but receptions are 90% handheld and 2lbs of lens hanging from the front of a relatively light body is what kills your arms and back! Using my EA-50 for ceremonies and speeches is a piece of cake ..no stress and no stain as it's always on a tripod ... it's the hand held stuff that's killing me ....I wonder who makes an F1.4 zoom that only weighs 200 grams ???

Chris

Noa Put · June 15th, 2015, 12:23 AM

Did you not have a suspension rod that attached to a belt? I thought that took all the weight from your hands?
You say you need a f1.8 zoom for practical reasons not to use a light, why do yo think the f2.8 to f4.0 from the fz1000 will be ok to use instead? I take it you plan to go back to using a videolight then?

June 14th, 2015, 05:40 AM	#31
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Time to Replace Cameras -where to now? Shooting outside can be a problem because the viewfinder doesn't cover the eye like the eyecup of the ea50 does and the sun can seriously block your view if it shines between your eye and viewfinder. Shootng from an angle is also not that easy on the rx10 as I would have preferred a flipout screen like the gh4 has. You can choose between AVCHD and XAVCS.

June 14th, 2015, 05:59 AM	#32
Peter Rush Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: UK/Yorkshire Posts: 2,069	Re: Time to Replace Cameras -where to now? I like the look of the flipout screen on the GH4 but the one of the RX10 looks similar to the one on my A7s and I'm getting used to that - maybe pop something like this on the shoe mount for sunny days. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pro-EVF-El...item35eaa608bc Pete

June 14th, 2015, 07:03 AM	#33
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Time to Replace Cameras -where to now? Quite a few people do a GH series EVF or loupe so that wouldn't be an issue. The EA-50 loupe is much the same too .. I still have a couple of Hoodman loupes left over from my PannyAC-130 days and they come with an extension box that makes the loupe fit a 16:9 LCD If you look at the price of a GH4 and some lenses it would probably come up to the same as the A7S roughly ... wouldn't it make more sense to buy a second A7S and not use the EA50 ??

June 14th, 2015, 07:17 AM	#34
Peter Rush Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: UK/Yorkshire Posts: 2,069	Re: Time to Replace Cameras -where to now? Chris currently I only use the A7s for bride prep and evening receptions so maybe i'll try it for the rest of the day - bright sunlight would be a problem so I'll need to find a solution for that. As I'm typing I'm playing around with the A7s and 18-200mm f3.5/5.6 lens that came with my VG20 - the autofocus on the A7s is not too bad! Could be a solution here :) Using this lens puts (I think) the A7s in APS-C mode so i'll need to do a direct comparison with the EA50/Canon F4 lens I use for ceremonies and speeches and see the difference in low light - I'll do it later this week. Pete

June 14th, 2015, 07:45 AM	#35
Peter Rush Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: UK/Yorkshire Posts: 2,069	Re: Time to Replace Cameras -where to now? I'm very impressed with the A7s autofocus - way much quicker than manual (fly by wire with the lens I'm using) and you can lock it really easily - awesome! plus the continuous AF while recording is smooooth! However one solution always brings a problem - Only 1 card slot - the reason I bought the FMU was for peace of mind - I don't fancy attaching an external recorder - oh well :/

June 14th, 2015, 08:06 AM	#36
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Time to Replace Cameras -where to now? I cannot see why the A7S couldn't be used inside a Church even with a slow lens and that way you would have a pigeon pair. At ceremonies I have the static EA-50 in manual anyway and I'm sure that the A7S has the facility to frame, push the shutter half way and it's in focus ..it certainly has enough ISO in any Church. As for outdoor stuff a loupe or a LCD hood might be good enough to use? I have a couple of these that work on LCD's well https://www.videoguys.com.au/Shop/p/...dMYaAoKC8P8HAQ Probably 90% of my ceremonies here are outdoor so I would easily get away with the FZ1000 with all the bright sunshine we get .... I would have to play around with one for receptions but on the EA-50 I still need a light for the dancing even with the F1.8 Sigma lens as I lock the gain at 21db which is only around 2000ISO ... I think the FZ1000 would be pretty good at 3200 which is way more than the EA-50 can use!! Chris

June 14th, 2015, 08:39 AM	#37
Peter Rush Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: UK/Yorkshire Posts: 2,069	Re: Time to Replace Cameras -where to now? I have one of them for my 5D which would work Chris but I really do make use of the flip screen as when I'm filming people sat down at weddings I tend to shoot from the hip as it were, so with A7 I can just slide the LCD screen out to view it - same when it's a real crush I like to shoot by holding the camera over my head - again the LCD just tilts enough to let me do this - not as well as the EA50 but just enough. I've just had a half hour filming the dog in the garden and to be honest the little viewfinder is not that bad - they eyecup is way too small and sony do not manufacture a better one, but I did see online a way of adapting a hoodman eyecup. It always the same when looking into upgrading/alternatives that there is always something that ticks most of the boxes but never all of them :(

June 14th, 2015, 09:16 AM	#38
Serggio Lamas Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Germany Posts: 163	Re: Time to Replace Cameras -where to now? The ea50 is fantastic camera in 25p with good lens currently I think about it not to sell

June 14th, 2015, 11:36 AM	#39
Steven Davis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,065	Re: Time to Replace Cameras -where to now? A year and half ago, I bought two Canon XF300s. Other than the stupid FCPX glitch on the metadata, I've been pretty happy with them. As for the pre stuff at a wedding, I've switches to monopods and dslrs. It's just more flexible, unless were are doing photography and video, then I go back to tripods with the canons. I do agree at the end of the day, it may not matter what you bring but how you use it. I can say that my steadicam is an eye opener at receptions, and our uniformity in cameras and clothing matters too. So Chris, maybe do DSLR for your pre stuff and keep the big guns for the ceremony may help. __________________ What happens if I push the 'Red' button?

June 14th, 2015, 03:10 PM	#40
Steven Digges Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,828	Re: Time to Replace Cameras -where to now? Chris, I will play the devil’s advocate here just for fun. You’re not making sense. If this was really a black and white issue from a business perspective only I think you would be sticking with your EA50s. And I have an $800.00 solution to the size/weight issue. I don’t need to write about what you shoot, format needs, etc. All of us regulars know about that. Suffice it to say you don’t need 4k and your current kit will technically meet your needs well for at least another year and maybe more. I don’t understand changing cameras and kit every two years based solely on time factor. That makes no sense to me? Two years in technological time is huge, but that is not your motivation. As a business decision, the longer you keep gear in use the greater the ROI. Using your EA50s for just one more wedding season would increase the return you got on your investment dramatically. I love every extra year I get out my cameras for that reason. I have been doing this for so long I have lost most of the thrill of getting new gear a long time ago. Upgrading anything means I am very honest about separating want vs. need. A major change like camera bodies means it has to have a real world impact on my product or my work flow. Based on your own information you do not have NEED to change. As far as the weight and your back go I found a solution because I have the same problem. The EA50 is unique in that it has a hanycam little brother (so to speak) the VG30. I picked up a VG30 new/used off of e-bay because I wanted a light fly cam. A VG30 is literally the exact same guts as the EA50 has in a small light handycam. Same sensor, same processor, same lens mount, same image, same everything. I am blown away by how much I like it and use it. It turned out to be much more than just a fly cam. And it works with everything in my kit! I did not have to go through some big conversion process. I have the best of both worlds. You can pick them up used on e-bay for 800/900 bucks. I am now very happy with my 3 cam kit. I shot a wedding a few weeks ago (yes unusual for me). I found the combination of the two EA50s and the VG30 to be stellar. At the reception I kept the EA50s on tripods for a solid main shot and I ran around handheld or black bird mounted with the VG30. It was perfect to give me multicam footage. Best of both worlds. I think it is easy for you to look at the lower price of the cams your considering and say look at that, I can save money. I don’t see that happening. The body we choose is just a center piece of a big system. You are looking at a major conversion here by the time you build a new kit to be what you want it to be. You say you don’t like external recorders. You better change that thinking, they are a way of life if you go all DSLR. And by the time you “rig” your small cam with a light and audio and accessories I don’t see holding a rigged DSLR in front of you to really save your back much. I see a hundred new posts coming from you as you ask the small cam guys for advice as you spend, spend, spend to build a whole new kit. It is a major change over. If you want to change and go with new stuff that’s great. But add a VG30 to your existing kit and you could have it all. Steve __________________ www.CorporateShow.com Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!

June 14th, 2015, 04:28 PM	#41
David Banner Major Player Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Bentonville, AR Posts: 239	Re: Time to Replace Cameras -where to now? If it weren't for the reason you mentioned about the size/weight of the cameras starting to become an issue then I would say stick with the EA50s for another season since we are in a transition period due to 4K and I believe that will affect HD camera offerings. Sony is rolling out new cameras already. As the manufacturers move to force 4K down our throats 1080P options will continue to get better. So this time next year there should be better cameras at a better value.....if you don't mind using the EA50s another season. :)

June 14th, 2015, 07:38 PM	#42
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Time to Replace Cameras -where to now? Thanks David and Steve (I was hoping Steve would chip in!) That is a good idea actually! I never thought about VG30's light enough not to kill my back and matches the EA50 perfectly ... Funnily I'm quite happy to keep one EA-50 that I designate as my A-Cam ..it's on tripod for ceremony and speeches so that doesn't give me any back issues! It's the bugger on my shoulder that I need to change ...pop on the big Sigma and I'm already at nearly 5lbs on my shoulder and holding that up half the night is the killer ... I think Pete Rush is a lot younger than me and he complains too so it's no just me!! Gotta take a look on eBay and see what VG30's are on offer. More options to look at ..I have just one EA-50 on eBay at the moment so it's highly likely I might just use one for A-Cam usage and a lighter one as my B-Cam UPDATE: Woah!! I think I need to move to the USA! VG30's here retail for nearly $3000!! There was one used one for $2,0000 ...In the sub-$1000 category the best you can get is maybe a VG10 camera ...That sadly comes with the same stock lens as the EA-50 (well, 18-200 without the power zoom!) so that isn't going to perform any better than the EA-50 ..just a smaller body really but to work in low light I would be back to using the Sigma 18-35 F1.8 which weighs more than the camera by a LOT!! Chris Last edited by Chris Harding; June 14th, 2015 at 08:20 PM.

June 14th, 2015, 08:58 PM	#43
Steven Digges Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,828	Re: Time to Replace Cameras -where to now? Chris, Hold on...it is e-bay. The prices go all over the map. They are always on there used for more than the NEW retail price. I don't know why? Body only there is two of them here for less than a grand and the e-bay "trending price" is listed at $1,049.00. I see them for 800/900 all the time. They will pop up for a reasonable price for you. I think it is weird that B&H still has them new AND at about the same price as an EA50! Steve __________________ www.CorporateShow.com Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!

June 14th, 2015, 09:24 PM	#44
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Time to Replace Cameras -where to now? Thanks Steve I still cannot see any "advantage" using a VG30 body sadly ..OK it weighs a lot less than a EA-50 body but really the difference is minimal as it's only plastic and electronics in there. The big issue for me is that to do wedding receptions the EA-50 "bits and pieces" still need a F1.8 zoom to be practical and not use a video light ..that's what is causing the problem for me ..it's the darn lens that adds the BIG weight ...an EA-50 body only is half the weight you need to carry .. the fast lens up front is the other half and it's all hanging off the front too ... no issues if you are on tripod but receptions are 90% handheld and 2lbs of lens hanging from the front of a relatively light body is what kills your arms and back! Using my EA-50 for ceremonies and speeches is a piece of cake ..no stress and no stain as it's always on a tripod ... it's the hand held stuff that's killing me ....I wonder who makes an F1.4 zoom that only weighs 200 grams ??? Chris

June 15th, 2015, 12:23 AM	#45
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Time to Replace Cameras -where to now? Did you not have a suspension rod that attached to a belt? I thought that took all the weight from your hands? You say you need a f1.8 zoom for practical reasons not to use a light, why do yo think the f2.8 to f4.0 from the fz1000 will be ok to use instead? I take it you plan to go back to using a videolight then?