Pixellation in 50P/60P mode

Chris Harding · October 5th, 2014, 10:25 PM

I really see no serious issue at all here! The images all look normal to me .. you will always get a bit a shimmer from fine patterned objects but don't worry about them ...I watched a local program on Friday shot in the TV studio with probably $250,000 cameras and there was a bit of both on the set where they had fine patterns ...that's our National broadcaster and they don't worry about it at all so you shouldn't either.

Serrgio? That looks like PP3 profile right?? Go into the profile and lift the colour level up 4 points and then shoot and expose correctly and you will hardly see any issues. As long as people's face are clean, ignore the background ....BTW: Tiled roofs will always give you issues ..with most cameras ... At a wedding you will have no problems!! However you do really need to modify the PP3 profile if you want to use it

Chris

Dave Baker · October 6th, 2014, 12:08 AM

All I'm seeing is interlace combing and a touch of aliasing in diagonals. I would call that normal for most digital camcorders.

Dave

Chris Harding · October 6th, 2014, 01:08 AM

Hi Dave

Yep, these are original MTS files from the camera with no processing .. not sure if they were shot in 50i or 50P but to me they look fairly normal .. The Sony PP3 profile unmodified is very flat hence my comment about modding the profile ... it also lifts the shadow detail a lot so it's great for indoor shots but I tend to push the overall colour level up prior to post so my PP3 has a lot more chroma info ... In it's flat mode it will also show a bit aliasing up more than normal. A simple profile change is all that is needed.

The samples are also shot in very bright light and the profile tends to blow out highlights unless you modify it. I would suspect that if this was shot in auto the shutter would have been pretty high and iris at maybe F16 at least In manual the profile tends to still over expose highlights which also causes the odd issues.

Chris

Noa Put · October 6th, 2014, 01:22 AM

Mediainfo said the files where shot at 25 frames/sec, I think what Serggio is seeing is the same thing I saw during that year I had the camera. When I shot below video in a church I noticed an issue with the stained glass, when I shot wide open with a deep dof and from a larger distance the ea50 was not able to resolve any detail in those windows, it looked as if there where some kind of "jitters" which actually was aliasing or moire. My cx730 which I had with at that moment was able to show that detail without any artifacts. Considering that my rx10 is even better then my cx730 at displaying fine detail shows how unoptimised that ea50 sensor is for video, probably a deliberate choice by Sony to justify the lower price of this otherwise feature rich camera.

I sold the ea50 mainly because of it's size as it was too big for me but the "problem" Serggio is mentioning was also one of them

This is the church video I"m talking about, you hardly see any aliasing/moire issue here but that's because I worked around it, just as I had to do with my 550d which was even worse. With my current camera's that's something I don't have to consider anymore.

Serggio Lamas · October 6th, 2014, 03:20 AM

all video is without any profile in full auto mode 50p 50i 25p

Noa Put · October 6th, 2014, 04:22 AM

Serggio, it looks like what you see is normal for this camera, if this is not the quality level you want I guess the only thing you can do is to sell the camera.

Serggio Lamas · October 6th, 2014, 06:53 AM

the previous video link is with kit lens 18-200 pz.
These two are by tamron 17-50 .2.8 no vc. and take it from 4 meters in 17 and 50 in out

add two more similar videos, I'm the crazy me, you all need to put glasses, I have glasses and

see clearly,the camera does not see well have problems.

Please download the mts not play from browser.
before the problem
https://www.dropbox.com/s/borx6xghtn...00193.MTS?dl=0
with the problem
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9d8jy5o0vi...00237.MTS?dl=0

you see that it is normal;I do not think

Chris Harding · October 6th, 2014, 07:00 AM

Hi Serggio

"No profile" should give you a lot more colour depth than your videos are showing ... are you sure you haven't got an EV positive value enabled in the menu ... with no profile the saturation for both my cameras is a LOT more than your images that look washed out. With no profile I actually need to reduce the saturation and limit the black level as it's so intense!! I wonder if that sensor was cleaned correctly of they left a film smear over it as all your files have very little punch in them!!

I did a wedding a while ago with no profile and the guy's black suits had almost no detail in them ..it looks like you camera is running quite over-exposed for some reason? What are zebras set at ..If you set to 90% and shoot a nice balanced scene you certainly shouldn't see any zebra stripes in the EVF

Chris

Serggio Lamas · October 6th, 2014, 07:36 AM

with NO profile and with ANY profile have the some problem,look this same video to understand
the previous video link is with kit lens 18-200 pz.
These two are by tamron 17-50 .2.8 no vc. and take it from 4 meters in 17 and 50 in out

add two more similar videos, I'm the crazy me, you all need to put glasses, I have glasses and

see clearly,the camera does not see well have problems.

Please download the mts not play from browser.
before the problem
https://www.dropbox.com/s/borx6xghtn...00193.MTS?dl=0
with the problem
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9d8jy5o0vi...00237.MTS?dl=0

you see that it is normal;I do not think

Noa Put · October 6th, 2014, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serggio Lamas

you see that it is normal;I do not think

Was the digital zoom not activated in that "after' shot?

Serggio Lamas · October 6th, 2014, 07:59 AM

Noa yes is not activated but with activated the digital zoom have again problem this is without problem https://www.dropbox.com/s/borx6xghtn...00193.MTS?dl=0
this is new video activated the digital zoom have again problem with https://www.dropbox.com/s/w8h6bcwo13...00241.MTS?dl=0

Noa Put · October 6th, 2014, 08:02 AM

No, you have optical zoom and then you have digital zoom, digital zoom makes the aliasing and moire worse. Check out below video I made starting from sec 00:20

Serggio Lamas · October 6th, 2014, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

No, you have optical zoom and then you have digital zoom, digital zoom makes the aliasing and moire worse. Check out below video I made starting from sec 00:20

https://vimeo.com/58138635

Noa little more help in setup ZOOM SET
tell me in settings zoom set
1digital zoom off or on
2zoom lever digital zoom,power zoom or off
3zoom speed type variable or fixed

ps.where is optical zoom settings?

Noa Put · October 6th, 2014, 10:15 AM

I don't have the camera anymore so I can't walk you true it but can you tell me for point 1 "digital zoom off or on"; how is it set at this moment in your camera, on or off?

Serggio Lamas · October 6th, 2014, 10:22 AM

Νοa Much better, but now it's here tomorrow night the day I will test and I'll have a clearer answer.
to this many thanks for the valuable assistance,whenever you come to GREECE I owe you a treat.

for now I'd like another user's information for setup ZOOM SET

little more help in setup ZOOM SET
tell me in settings zoom set
1digital zoom off or on
2zoom lever digital zoom,power zoom or off
3zoom speed type variable or fixed

ps.where is optical zoom settings?

October 5th, 2014, 10:25 PM	#76
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode I really see no serious issue at all here! The images all look normal to me .. you will always get a bit a shimmer from fine patterned objects but don't worry about them ...I watched a local program on Friday shot in the TV studio with probably $250,000 cameras and there was a bit of both on the set where they had fine patterns ...that's our National broadcaster and they don't worry about it at all so you shouldn't either. Serrgio? That looks like PP3 profile right?? Go into the profile and lift the colour level up 4 points and then shoot and expose correctly and you will hardly see any issues. As long as people's face are clean, ignore the background ....BTW: Tiled roofs will always give you issues ..with most cameras ... At a wedding you will have no problems!! However you do really need to modify the PP3 profile if you want to use it Chris

October 6th, 2014, 12:08 AM	#77
Dave Baker Major Player Join Date: May 2014 Location: Brandon, England Posts: 461	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode All I'm seeing is interlace combing and a touch of aliasing in diagonals. I would call that normal for most digital camcorders. Dave

October 6th, 2014, 01:08 AM	#78
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode Hi Dave Yep, these are original MTS files from the camera with no processing .. not sure if they were shot in 50i or 50P but to me they look fairly normal .. The Sony PP3 profile unmodified is very flat hence my comment about modding the profile ... it also lifts the shadow detail a lot so it's great for indoor shots but I tend to push the overall colour level up prior to post so my PP3 has a lot more chroma info ... In it's flat mode it will also show a bit aliasing up more than normal. A simple profile change is all that is needed. The samples are also shot in very bright light and the profile tends to blow out highlights unless you modify it. I would suspect that if this was shot in auto the shutter would have been pretty high and iris at maybe F16 at least In manual the profile tends to still over expose highlights which also causes the odd issues. Chris

October 6th, 2014, 01:22 AM	#79
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode Mediainfo said the files where shot at 25 frames/sec, I think what Serggio is seeing is the same thing I saw during that year I had the camera. When I shot below video in a church I noticed an issue with the stained glass, when I shot wide open with a deep dof and from a larger distance the ea50 was not able to resolve any detail in those windows, it looked as if there where some kind of "jitters" which actually was aliasing or moire. My cx730 which I had with at that moment was able to show that detail without any artifacts. Considering that my rx10 is even better then my cx730 at displaying fine detail shows how unoptimised that ea50 sensor is for video, probably a deliberate choice by Sony to justify the lower price of this otherwise feature rich camera. I sold the ea50 mainly because of it's size as it was too big for me but the "problem" Serggio is mentioning was also one of them This is the church video I"m talking about, you hardly see any aliasing/moire issue here but that's because I worked around it, just as I had to do with my 550d which was even worse. With my current camera's that's something I don't have to consider anymore. Sint Trudo Kerk Peer / Sint Trudo Church on Vimeo

October 6th, 2014, 03:20 AM	#80
Serggio Lamas Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Germany Posts: 163	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode all video is without any profile in full auto mode 50p 50i 25p

October 6th, 2014, 04:22 AM	#81
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode Serggio, it looks like what you see is normal for this camera, if this is not the quality level you want I guess the only thing you can do is to sell the camera.

October 6th, 2014, 06:53 AM	#82
Serggio Lamas Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Germany Posts: 163	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode the previous video link is with kit lens 18-200 pz. These two are by tamron 17-50 .2.8 no vc. and take it from 4 meters in 17 and 50 in out add two more similar videos, I'm the crazy me, you all need to put glasses, I have glasses and see clearly,the camera does not see well have problems. Please download the mts not play from browser. before the problem https://www.dropbox.com/s/borx6xghtn...00193.MTS?dl=0 with the problem https://www.dropbox.com/s/9d8jy5o0vi...00237.MTS?dl=0 you see that it is normal;I do not think

October 6th, 2014, 07:00 AM	#83
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode Hi Serggio "No profile" should give you a lot more colour depth than your videos are showing ... are you sure you haven't got an EV positive value enabled in the menu ... with no profile the saturation for both my cameras is a LOT more than your images that look washed out. With no profile I actually need to reduce the saturation and limit the black level as it's so intense!! I wonder if that sensor was cleaned correctly of they left a film smear over it as all your files have very little punch in them!! I did a wedding a while ago with no profile and the guy's black suits had almost no detail in them ..it looks like you camera is running quite over-exposed for some reason? What are zebras set at ..If you set to 90% and shoot a nice balanced scene you certainly shouldn't see any zebra stripes in the EVF Chris

October 6th, 2014, 07:36 AM	#84
Serggio Lamas Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Germany Posts: 163	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode with NO profile and with ANY profile have the some problem,look this same video to understand the previous video link is with kit lens 18-200 pz. These two are by tamron 17-50 .2.8 no vc. and take it from 4 meters in 17 and 50 in out add two more similar videos, I'm the crazy me, you all need to put glasses, I have glasses and see clearly,the camera does not see well have problems. Please download the mts not play from browser. before the problem https://www.dropbox.com/s/borx6xghtn...00193.MTS?dl=0 with the problem https://www.dropbox.com/s/9d8jy5o0vi...00237.MTS?dl=0 you see that it is normal;I do not think

October 6th, 2014, 07:59 AM	#86
Serggio Lamas Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Germany Posts: 163	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode Noa yes is not activated but with activated the digital zoom have again problem this is without problem https://www.dropbox.com/s/borx6xghtn...00193.MTS?dl=0 this is new video activated the digital zoom have again problem with https://www.dropbox.com/s/w8h6bcwo13...00241.MTS?dl=0

October 6th, 2014, 08:02 AM	#87
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode No, you have optical zoom and then you have digital zoom, digital zoom makes the aliasing and moire worse. Check out below video I made starting from sec 00:20 Vimeo

October 6th, 2014, 10:15 AM	#89
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode I don't have the camera anymore so I can't walk you true it but can you tell me for point 1 "digital zoom off or on"; how is it set at this moment in your camera, on or off?

October 6th, 2014, 10:22 AM	#90
Serggio Lamas Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Germany Posts: 163	Re: Pixellation in 50P/60P mode Νοa Much better, but now it's here tomorrow night the day I will test and I'll have a clearer answer. to this many thanks for the valuable assistance,whenever you come to GREECE I owe you a treat. for now I'd like another user's information for setup ZOOM SET little more help in setup ZOOM SET tell me in settings zoom set 1digital zoom off or on 2zoom lever digital zoom,power zoom or off 3zoom speed type variable or fixed ps.where is optical zoom settings?