Saved by the Rod!

Noa Put · February 25th, 2015, 01:52 AM

Do you mean to use a steadicam vest and arm and to suspend the rod and camera on that arm, instead of using a steadicam?

Chris Harding · February 25th, 2015, 05:04 AM

Hi Noa

I think he means put the camera on a handheld stedicam and then insert the rod into the handle so you are not trying to hold up the sled and camera with your arm but rather with your rod and belt. No vest or arm are involved.

Tom I have never tried it and have no idea if it would work but my initial reaction would be don't as you have no control really. Rather get a vest and arm and put the sled on that and put the rod away..it's designed for static shots only. There are a couple are very well made stedicams in China now ...I scrapped my big heavy rig and got a Wieldy one ..carbon fibre sled, well machined arm and a beautiful vest and with the cam it all weighs under 10kg!! Flies like a dream too!! I paid under $600 for the whole deal but you might have to lighten your EA-50 a bit!! Yours is really overloaded with balance weights and extra bits and pieces.

Chris

Noa Put · February 25th, 2015, 05:21 AM

That would not work well, that rod doesn't function like a vest and arm does so you still would be introducing unwanted movements while you walk and just add the extra weight of the steadicam itself.

Chris Harding · February 25th, 2015, 06:54 AM

That's why I said "don't" ...using a stedicam even with a dual arm still requires you to walk like a cat smoothly and quietly so imagine if you walk without an arm? The sled with simply jump around ! As you walk with a waist belt and rod as you lift each leg the rod will kick over towards the opposite side. Try putting on the waist belt with the rod inserted with no camera and walk forward with both hands on the rod and as you walk feel how much it kicks to the left and right as your take steps. As Noa says too ..it won't work so don't even try it ... it's brilliant for long sequences BUT you have to say in one place !! If you need to move, get a stedicam and vest setup

Tom Van den Berghe · February 25th, 2015, 11:48 AM

thx for the answers Noa and Chris. Have looked for a cheap steadycam with vest and arm and found this one:

cost here in Belgium only 599 euro. (with arm + vest) For me it will be more than enough/good.

Steven Digges · February 25th, 2015, 12:21 PM

Hey Tom,

Before you order it wait for Chris to chime in. He just bought a discounted rig he is very happy with. I would find out the details on that one too.

Steve

Noa Put · February 25th, 2015, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Van den Berghe

cost here in Belgium only 599 euro. (with arm + vest) For me it will be more than enough/good.

Don't underestimate the weight of such a rig including your camera and the strain it will put on your back, a few years back I hired a steadicam operator for a few jobs, before I had my blackbird, and he had a steadicam pilot where he flew a sony fx1000 on. After a 3 hour event and not even using the camera continuously he was totally exhausted and he was a big athletic guy, so eventhough it might have looked like a walk in the park for a guy of his posture it only showed how much effort it took to fly for longer periods. I think Chris can share that experience as well as he uses one.

Chris Harding · February 25th, 2015, 06:07 PM

Thanks Guys

Ok I have been the proud (or not so proud) owmer of not one but FOUR flycam rigs I had a Flycam 5000 and then a Flycam 6000 which was too heavy so I bought another flycam 5000 and finally replaced it with a flycam 5500 which is probably the pick of the bunch. They have all dropped substantially in price since I had them.

Honestly the build quality is adequate, but not brilliant on the Indian rigs and they do work. However Tom you need to strip all the bits and pieces off your camera (rails, counter weight, matte box) to be practical.

Yes, I now have a bit of a hybrid system made by Wieldy and Came-TV in China ...and it's 50% lighter than what my Flycam 5500 used to be fully laden and as Noa says after 30 minutes with a 15-20kg load on you your back is on fire and you are pouring sweat!! It's NOT easy work so getting down to half my original rig load helped me a LOT survive even a 15 minute session.

If you strip your accessories off your camera you can get away with the Flycam 5000 it's a single arm rig that does work but tends to be bouncier than dual arm rigs

Look around at Laing, Wieldy and Came-TV ..they are engineered a lot better but cost more ...if you want something just to "try out" and sell later on eBay grab a Flycam 5000 Comfort vest and sled.

Chris

Tom Van den Berghe · February 26th, 2015, 05:23 AM

thx Chris but is there a huge difference between single and dual arms?
The footage I have seen online from the flycam 5000 looks pretty good to me. (more than good enough in my opinion for mostly hobby)

Yes, I will strip down my nex-ea50. the counterweight (1,2kg) and the manfrotto sympla handles (thought also about 1kg). Would like to keep the mattebox. The weight will be around 3 kg - max 3,5 kg.

My sony hxr-nx3 is 2,7 kg.

Because I survived it with the rod I think I will survive it with the flycam 5000?

Noa Put · February 26th, 2015, 06:05 AM

The wheight distribution is totally different between en vest/arm and a rod, if you say you can walk around 3 hours with that rod suspended on a belt that's around your waist you can't do the same with a vest and arm, it will put a lot more strain on your back.

Chris Harding · February 26th, 2015, 06:42 AM

Hi Tom

A lot of people look at a rig and see that it says "1 - 7.5kg" Great , your cam will be 3.5kg BUT most sled ratings INCLUDE the sled weight not just the camera! My Wieldy sled is a light carbon fibre and is 2.2kg ..my camera is about the same so the arm has to support nearly 5kg ... be careful with that!!

Seriously what Noa says is very true ... a rig weighing a few kilos will kill your back after 30 minutes... remember you are carrying the arm, the vest the sled and the camera!!! I would take off the rail and matte box too ...your matte box is quite heavy up front and just the box and rail add over 1kg to the rig.

A single arm is very "bouncy" you will have issues trying to keep your top frame consistent and it will tend to bob up and down a bit ... a dual arm is better as the rear bones and springs provide the lift and the front bones and springs keep the camera level.

Personally I found the comfort arm and vest simply not strong enough to take my Panasonic HMC80's which are about the same as the EA-50 .. however the choice is yours

Just for interest my camera also uses a Tamron 10-24mm lens up front in stedicam mode with a fixed focus ..at 10mm it's wide enough to be in focus set to 2.5' on the lens, from 2' to infinity ....the power zoom will struggle to autofocus a bit too!!

Stedicams are another world completely but once you use them they are quite addictive!! Love the easy camera movements you can achieve!!!

Chris

Tom Van den Berghe · February 26th, 2015, 03:04 PM

ok, chris and Noa. I will skip the flycam 5000. Looking at the wieldy carbon steadycam with dual arms. A bit more expensive (still not expensive compared to brand names)

At this moment I think go for that one.

Tom Van den Berghe · August 26th, 2015, 11:59 AM

I purchaded the flycam HD-3000 with arm and vest and received it today. Glad I bought the arm and vest because it's heavy. I used my sony hxr-nx3 which is 2.8 kg. Stil testing and learning how to setup. and watch tutorials and tips.

Chris Harding · August 26th, 2015, 08:18 PM

Hi Tom

That's neat ..Did they give you the quick release plate with it as well?? It does make fitting the camera to the top sled a LOT easier. They are so cheap now definitely worth getting!! Just remember to keep your camera weight down to a minimum as their "3.5kg" estimates are often wrong .. You need your EA-50 at a maximum of 2kg .. no more otherwise you will find the springs on the arm will bottom out!! I would run it without your rail and matte box to save top weight.

Chris

Tom Van den Berghe · August 29th, 2015, 12:09 PM

hey Ron,

yes, i comes with a quick release plate. I removed the mattebox, ... But still weights about 3 kg with battery and the kitlens. I did a testshot today without the arm and vest. After balancing it it worked great. But after a while a of testing my arm was getting tired.

Now I wanted it to test with arm and vest but I don't how to use it. Because I'm righthanded I thought to use the spring on the right side?

See the pictures and the testmovie

February 25th, 2015, 01:52 AM	#46
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Saved by the Rod! Do you mean to use a steadicam vest and arm and to suspend the rod and camera on that arm, instead of using a steadicam?

February 25th, 2015, 05:04 AM	#47
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Saved by the Rod! Hi Noa I think he means put the camera on a handheld stedicam and then insert the rod into the handle so you are not trying to hold up the sled and camera with your arm but rather with your rod and belt. No vest or arm are involved. Tom I have never tried it and have no idea if it would work but my initial reaction would be don't as you have no control really. Rather get a vest and arm and put the sled on that and put the rod away..it's designed for static shots only. There are a couple are very well made stedicams in China now ...I scrapped my big heavy rig and got a Wieldy one ..carbon fibre sled, well machined arm and a beautiful vest and with the cam it all weighs under 10kg!! Flies like a dream too!! I paid under $600 for the whole deal but you might have to lighten your EA-50 a bit!! Yours is really overloaded with balance weights and extra bits and pieces. Chris

February 25th, 2015, 05:21 AM	#48
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Saved by the Rod! That would not work well, that rod doesn't function like a vest and arm does so you still would be introducing unwanted movements while you walk and just add the extra weight of the steadicam itself.

February 25th, 2015, 06:54 AM	#49
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Saved by the Rod! That's why I said "don't" ...using a stedicam even with a dual arm still requires you to walk like a cat smoothly and quietly so imagine if you walk without an arm? The sled with simply jump around ! As you walk with a waist belt and rod as you lift each leg the rod will kick over towards the opposite side. Try putting on the waist belt with the rod inserted with no camera and walk forward with both hands on the rod and as you walk feel how much it kicks to the left and right as your take steps. As Noa says too ..it won't work so don't even try it ... it's brilliant for long sequences BUT you have to say in one place !! If you need to move, get a stedicam and vest setup

February 25th, 2015, 11:48 AM	#50
Tom Van den Berghe Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: BELGIUM Posts: 401	Re: Saved by the Rod! thx for the answers Noa and Chris. Have looked for a cheap steadycam with vest and arm and found this one: Flycam 5000 Review \| F5 Show - YouTube cost here in Belgium only 599 euro. (with arm + vest) For me it will be more than enough/good.

February 25th, 2015, 12:21 PM	#51
Steven Digges Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,828	Re: Saved by the Rod! Hey Tom, Before you order it wait for Chris to chime in. He just bought a discounted rig he is very happy with. I would find out the details on that one too. Steve __________________ www.CorporateShow.com Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!

February 25th, 2015, 06:07 PM	#53
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Saved by the Rod! Thanks Guys Ok I have been the proud (or not so proud) owmer of not one but FOUR flycam rigs I had a Flycam 5000 and then a Flycam 6000 which was too heavy so I bought another flycam 5000 and finally replaced it with a flycam 5500 which is probably the pick of the bunch. They have all dropped substantially in price since I had them. Honestly the build quality is adequate, but not brilliant on the Indian rigs and they do work. However Tom you need to strip all the bits and pieces off your camera (rails, counter weight, matte box) to be practical. Yes, I now have a bit of a hybrid system made by Wieldy and Came-TV in China ...and it's 50% lighter than what my Flycam 5500 used to be fully laden and as Noa says after 30 minutes with a 15-20kg load on you your back is on fire and you are pouring sweat!! It's NOT easy work so getting down to half my original rig load helped me a LOT survive even a 15 minute session. If you strip your accessories off your camera you can get away with the Flycam 5000 it's a single arm rig that does work but tends to be bouncier than dual arm rigs Look around at Laing, Wieldy and Came-TV ..they are engineered a lot better but cost more ...if you want something just to "try out" and sell later on eBay grab a Flycam 5000 Comfort vest and sled. Chris

February 26th, 2015, 05:23 AM	#54
Tom Van den Berghe Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: BELGIUM Posts: 401	Re: Saved by the Rod! thx Chris but is there a huge difference between single and dual arms? The footage I have seen online from the flycam 5000 looks pretty good to me. (more than good enough in my opinion for mostly hobby) Yes, I will strip down my nex-ea50. the counterweight (1,2kg) and the manfrotto sympla handles (thought also about 1kg). Would like to keep the mattebox. The weight will be around 3 kg - max 3,5 kg. My sony hxr-nx3 is 2,7 kg. Because I survived it with the rod I think I will survive it with the flycam 5000?

February 26th, 2015, 06:05 AM	#55
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Saved by the Rod! The wheight distribution is totally different between en vest/arm and a rod, if you say you can walk around 3 hours with that rod suspended on a belt that's around your waist you can't do the same with a vest and arm, it will put a lot more strain on your back.

February 26th, 2015, 06:42 AM	#56
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Saved by the Rod! Hi Tom A lot of people look at a rig and see that it says "1 - 7.5kg" Great , your cam will be 3.5kg BUT most sled ratings INCLUDE the sled weight not just the camera! My Wieldy sled is a light carbon fibre and is 2.2kg ..my camera is about the same so the arm has to support nearly 5kg ... be careful with that!! Seriously what Noa says is very true ... a rig weighing a few kilos will kill your back after 30 minutes... remember you are carrying the arm, the vest the sled and the camera!!! I would take off the rail and matte box too ...your matte box is quite heavy up front and just the box and rail add over 1kg to the rig. A single arm is very "bouncy" you will have issues trying to keep your top frame consistent and it will tend to bob up and down a bit ... a dual arm is better as the rear bones and springs provide the lift and the front bones and springs keep the camera level. Personally I found the comfort arm and vest simply not strong enough to take my Panasonic HMC80's which are about the same as the EA-50 .. however the choice is yours Just for interest my camera also uses a Tamron 10-24mm lens up front in stedicam mode with a fixed focus ..at 10mm it's wide enough to be in focus set to 2.5' on the lens, from 2' to infinity ....the power zoom will struggle to autofocus a bit too!! Stedicams are another world completely but once you use them they are quite addictive!! Love the easy camera movements you can achieve!!! Chris

February 26th, 2015, 03:04 PM	#57
Tom Van den Berghe Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: BELGIUM Posts: 401	Re: Saved by the Rod! ok, chris and Noa. I will skip the flycam 5000. Looking at the wieldy carbon steadycam with dual arms. A bit more expensive (still not expensive compared to brand names) At this moment I think go for that one.

August 26th, 2015, 11:59 AM	#58
Tom Van den Berghe Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: BELGIUM Posts: 401	Re: Saved by the Rod! I purchaded the flycam HD-3000 with arm and vest and received it today. Glad I bought the arm and vest because it's heavy. I used my sony hxr-nx3 which is 2.8 kg. Stil testing and learning how to setup. and watch tutorials and tips.

August 26th, 2015, 08:18 PM	#59
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Saved by the Rod! Hi Tom That's neat ..Did they give you the quick release plate with it as well?? It does make fitting the camera to the top sled a LOT easier. They are so cheap now definitely worth getting!! Just remember to keep your camera weight down to a minimum as their "3.5kg" estimates are often wrong .. You need your EA-50 at a maximum of 2kg .. no more otherwise you will find the springs on the arm will bottom out!! I would run it without your rail and matte box to save top weight. Chris

August 29th, 2015, 12:09 PM	#60
Tom Van den Berghe Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: BELGIUM Posts: 401	Re: Saved by the Rod! hey Ron, yes, i comes with a quick release plate. I removed the mattebox, ... But still weights about 3 kg with battery and the kitlens. I did a testshot today without the arm and vest. After balancing it it worked great. But after a while a of testing my arm was getting tired. Now I wanted it to test with arm and vest but I don't how to use it. Because I'm righthanded I thought to use the spring on the right side? See the pictures and the testmovie flycam HD-3000 on Vimeo