Ok I give up with weights!!

[Chris Harding]

Hi Tom

Yeah it does look very professional with the matte box on the camera ...I still have one Camtree Box but I put it on ebay as I doubt whether I'll ever use it...Don't want to add extra weight. The other problem is that the fabric shroud of the matte box restricts access to the kens rings too so using manual lenses is tricky and awkward! With handles your arms will start to ache whether the handles are long or short unless you test long handle rigs that will allow you to have your elbows hard up against your body which would make far less arm fatigue !!

Hope the handles work for you ... make sure the Manfrotto will fit your current QR rails though ..it would be silly to have to buy a new rail system too. I made my own handles with some aluminium square tubes and pushed on some bicycle foam handgrips ...worked well on my Panasonic cameras too!!

I still think the support rod is a way better option as all the front weight is taken by your hips via the belt ... I can work all night without any issues! However we all have different choices

Chris

[Peter Rush]

Chris would you say that support rod would be a benefit for crowded evening receptions? I use my 5D rig with a chest pad for support but it kills my back by the end of the night - It looks lime it comes with the belt as well?

[Peter Rush]

Wow that Camtree support rod/belt is $65 which should equate to £36 but the cheapest I can find in UK is £80 which equates to $143 - The great british rip off - oh well I suppose my back is worth it :/

[Chris Harding]

Hi Pete

As simple as it is it's a GEM!! Doesn't matter how crowded it is it only runs from under the cam to your waist and you will be quite amazed how rock solid your handheld footage becomes! I actually have two but got the newer model cos I liked the ball joint underneath .... It takes ALL the weight off your back and onto your hips via the belt and eureka ..no back pain at all!! Last Saturday I made a point of keeping the belt on and my back was perfectly normal at the end of a long night!!

Why not order direct from Cine City?? That's what I do ...you can also just email Sales and tell them what you want (I deal with Sarita) and mine was US$65 plus US$32 for shipping ...came to AUS$97.00 in total with courier delivery to my door!!

You have an EA-50 right?? If so have you shortened the view tube yet?? It's an absolute essential as it moves the pad into the correct position on your shoulder ..makes a massive difference too ..both my cams have shortened tubes!!

Apart from that order a rod support ..you will not regret it!! It's basically a copy of the DVTec ENG rig in the USA that sells for over $500!!!

Chris

[Peter Rush]

Yes I have my EA50 Chris but I would need this for my 5D rig (pictured) for use at evening receptions - even with a fast lens I find the EA50 cannot cope without the aid of a light - the 5D pretty much sees in the dark :)

[Chris Harding]

Hi Pete

That's a front heavy rig so it will be a huge help. My Panasonic rig when I had AC-130's was close to what you have there and your arms also get sore because you are carrying the camera weight and it's being transferred to your back. With a rod support you could keep the handles or not even use them and your hands are now free to do important stuff and not just load carriers!!

I'm doing a wedding in a couple of hours and even use the waist belt for prep video!! It just gives you a much more stable picture!

Chris

[Tom Van den Berghe]

Chris,

I have my manfrotto handles/ These are the best handles for price/quality I suppose. It takes about 3 seconds to attach or detach them from the camtree 15mm rods.

I have to test further which is the best position on the rods. (can place it also behind the mattebox)
I will make a movie of it later. At this moment I don't use a counter weight.

thx

[Peter Rush]

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

You have an EA-50 right?? If so have you shortened the view tube yet?? It's an absolute essential as it moves the pad into the correct position on your shoulder ..makes a massive difference too ..both my cams have shortened tubes!!
Chris

How do I do this Chris?

[Peter Rush]

OK Found the details - seems a bit scary

[Chris Harding]

Hi Pete

Not at all!! It's really really simple ..undo the 4 screws at the LCD end of the tube and wiggle out the plate, undo the next 4 screws and the middle tube comes out ...put the plate and 4 screws back in the flip part end and then put the middle section to one side and fit the loupe together without the middle and put a lick of black insulation tape over the join. It really takes a whole 5 minutes!!!

Chris

[Chris Harding]

Hey Tom

That looks quite neat!! Let us know how practical it is to use. I often have manual lenses on the camera so I need my right hand under the strap and my left hand to adjust focus etc etc so the handles wouldn't ne practical for me. If you are shooting in full auto, then of course, you can hit record and grab both handles and go ... you have to drop one hand to zoom and start/stop

To be honest I found my arms got quite sore holding up the camera but you are younger and fitter. With my support rod both my hands are free and there is no strain at all on my arms as your hips take all the load. For me it works but may not work for you?

You will find that you can get nice steady footage with the handles too!! I was reviewing footage I did last night at a wedding where I was 90% handheld and it's hard to see any loss of stability ...looks like it's on a tripod.

Chris

[Tom Van den Berghe]

Chris,

manfrotto sympla handles on Vimeo

very quick movie. My wife was so kind to test it out.

[Noa Put]

Thx for sharing Tom, although you should get more stable images shooting with these handles but when seeing it in action that looks like a very uncomfortable position to handhold the camera for extended periods, I really think you need that suspension rod Chris has been mentioning to get all the weight from your hands, in this way I don't think you'll manage to hold it like that for more then a few minutes. Just after you say, "arestapternekeermeerond" (start moving around) you can see your wife puff under the weight she has to push upwards, that seems like a tough workout :)

[Don Bloom]

In response to using the spring rod from the camera to the belt pouch.

First keep in mind that my experiences might be very different than yours but I've used a DVTEC ENG rig on full sized camera rig that go up to almost 30 pounds for a long time and I agree 110% with Chris that using that type of rig will not only allow one to have steadier footage than not using a similar type rig but will give one steadier footage at the long end of the lens. It give one the ability to keep your hands where they belong, on the lens of the camera so as to be able to operate the zoom rocker, shuttle feature if your lens has that, control the record button on the lens, control the focus and iris the WB, gain switch...all of the control one would expect to have and use on a full sized professional camera. IF the camera is balanced correctly, at least as far as I was taught 30 some years ago, it would be slightly back heavy so when one puts hands on the lens and your arms hang down to your sides you can rest your arms in that position while pulling the camera to a level position and here's the best part and why I am rehashing all this old stuff we've all known for years. The spring rod takes the weight and with a properly balanced camera will hold the camera level and yet will allow you enough spring so if you need to tilt up the spring rod will help you do that and help you hold the camera in that position. the same should you need to tilt down AND since the majority of the weight is being taken by the spring rod your back doesn't hurt as much if at all. I used to do 30 minute shots using this method that with out the ENG Rig I would have been forced to use a tripod. Again, this is my experience with this type of rig.

As for using 2 handles on a full size camera, I tried it once about 5 or 6 years ago, Noticed I said once. To get to the controls on the left side of the lens, I had to let go of the handle and frankly I couldn't get comfy with doing that and I had no real good way to get to the controls on the right side of the lens, namely...record button and zoom rocker. I shut that experiment down at the first break. Again this was my experience only. If it works for someone else and they're happy with it, I say go for it.

[Chris Harding]

Thanks Tom

They look like they work very well on your camera. As mentioned, I used must the same system on my Panasonic AC-130's and they did seem to work well ..Mine were DIY just with 1" square tube and bicycle hand grips but they did work well. After 10 minutes or even less I did find my arms were getting sore and often used to dig my elbow into my belly for extra support.

Chris