Anyone using a counter balance weight?

[Chris Harding]

Thanks Tom!

Perfect photos and that 2.1 kg weight looks like it's part of the camera. The way I see it is that the lower you can have a weight, the lower your centre of balance will be so the cylinder weight would actually be less effective than the one that drops down. (even if they were the same mass!!) If I made one I think I would get an aluminium plate made (about 6mm thick) and the have a system where one could add plates on the "slopey" bit in say, 500g increments. That way you could reduce weight if you are using a lighter lens on the camera and the balance has changed.

Just for interest Tom , with the matte box, rails and your 2.1kg counter-weight, what is the overall weight of the compete rig??? I wonder if I would ever be able to handhold that ??

All your photo efforts are very much appreciated

Chris

[Noa Put]

Tom,

Hope you don't mind me borrowing your images for my blog where I have all useful info on the nex-ea50 combined, the blog has been non active for a while but I have been picking it up again, you can see it here: Accidental videographer | Stop looking, it's all here

[Tom Van den Berghe]

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Thanks Tom!

Perfect photos and that 2.1 kg weight looks like it's part of the camera. The way I see it is that the lower you can have a weight, the lower your centre of balance will be so the cylinder weight would actually be less effective than the one that drops down. (even if they were the same mass!!) If I made one I think I would get an aluminium plate made (about 6mm thick) and the have a system where one could add plates on the "slopey" bit in say, 500g increments. That way you could reduce weight if you are using a lighter lens on the camera and the balance has changed.

Just for interest Tom , with the matte box, rails and your 2.1kg counter-weight, what is the overall weight of the compete rig??? I wonder if I would ever be able to handhold that ??

All your photo efforts are very much appreciated

Chris

the complete rig with the 2.1 kg counter balance is about 4 kg. I can handhold this but not the whole time.

The cylinder weight looks "perfect" for handheld and switch to tripod. Within a few weeks I have to shoot a communion in a church and this will be a mix of handheld and tripod. So the cylinder weight will be useful for handheld and not too heavy for mounting on and off the tripod. With the 2.1 kg counter balance it's heavy and more difficult to use on my sachtler ace tripod.

[Tom Van den Berghe]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Tom,

Hope you don't mind me borrowing your images for my blog where I have all useful info on the nex-ea50 combined, the blog has been non active for a while but I have been picking it up again, you can see it here: Accidental videographer | Stop looking, it's all here

No problem Noa!

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Tom Van den Berghe

the complete rig with the 2.1 kg counter balance is about 4 kg. I can handhold this but not the whole time.

Are you sure it's not closer to 5kg? I thought the ea50 only with viewfinder and a battery is close to 3kg (acc to sony's tech specs), then you need to add the 2kg counterwheight and your rails and mattebox which together should wheigh at least 500grams I guess?

[Tom Van den Berghe]

I put it on a scale and that says 4 kg. It's not an electronic one. Maybe the scale is not right anymore.

[Noa Put]

If the scale says 4kg then it should be right, give or take a few 100gram if it's not a calibrated electronic one, I remember trying to make a shouldercamera out of my canon -xh-a1 with a "cb105" shoulder support, the total weight including light and my azden wireless receiver was 7kg, it did balance perfectly however on my shoulder at the expense of that extra weight. The same set up with my gh3, but other shouldermount is 2kg. :)

[Noa Put]

ah, found the image back, that was in 2009, look at that monster, ah those sweet memories :) Later I made a hoodloupe for the flip out lcd screen so I could use it as a "real" shoulder camera during run and gun interviews. After 5 minites that cb105 shouldermount really started to dig into my shoulders, not fun.

[Noa Put]

here it is

[Chris Harding]

Ouch!! Noa

OK the EA-50 with the stock lens and a standard battery is 2.7kg so adding the 2.1 kg weight would make it 4.8kg ...At weddings I also have a light up front and a battery at the back so I figure at least 5kg for the whole rig all up. However the Camshade matte box and rail is exactly 1 kg so that makes a grand total of 6kg on your shoulder.

Now, a difficult question for you all. What would be easier on your back and shoulders ???

A 2.7kg bare essentials camera but still a little front heavy? Put on the matte box and rails and you now have an even heavier front end by almost another 1kg so all up is 3.7 kg plus the light and you are at 4kg.

That definitely in that form kills your back!!! You are fighting the front end I think???

Increase the camera weight to 6kg with all the extra weight on the rear end and you have a heavier rig but more balanced (according to Tom) so the burning questions still seems to be is : Which would be less tiring on your body? A front heavy 3kg camera or a better balanced 6kg camera.

Maybe Tom could do a trial for us??? Try holding the cam for say 10 minutes with the all up weight (6kg incl the counter balance) and then remove the counter balance and matte box and do another 10 minutes so you have a cam half the weight and see what the results are according to your muscles??

Even with just a matte box on the camera it feels awfully heavy and tiring for me BUT that might be simply because the extra weight is up front??

Any takers to do a test ???

Chris

[Noa Put]

The worst is every weight you put in front of you because I rather have 5 kg directly on my shoulders then 1 kg hanging on the front of my lens. That weight you need to hold in your hands and this puts a lot of strain on your shoulder, back and arms.

[Chris Harding]

Thanks Noa

My thoughts exactly.

Now I have bought myself a length of 40mm x 20mm aluminium rectangular tube and I'll zap that onto the top side of the shoulder pad and then have a 45 degree angle going down behind my back. I don't have any mates that have a steel work shop so I decided to not make a solid bar but use ankle weights. I thought they had metal plates inside them but to make them flexible each pocket is filled with granules (I have no idea what yet but it's heavier than sand, that's for sure!! I might seal up the rectangular tube and fill the 45 degree section with what ever is in the bag and have that as my base weight, I was given some refills from the sports store and they are sealed plastic bags 150mm long and 50mm wide and each weigh 500g so that's 1.5kg already. Since I have spare aluminium I could always make a second tube to clip onto the first one so I can adjust for heavy/light lenses too.

Will keep you guys updated after some tests on weight etc etc tomorrow. I wonder how Tom decided on 2.1 kg??? or it that just what the weight came out as. I hung a 5lb dumbbell on the end of my pad and that seems awfully heavy if you don't have a matte box fitted!!

More later and maybe a few pics for your blog too!!

BTW: the mod to shorten the view tube is a must for your blog ...it's a different camera totally with the short viewing tube as the pad actually sits correctly on your shoulder!!

Chris

[Noa Put]

I just remembered about my first camera, a sony vx2100 where I had such a wideangle lens that you could attach to the front of the vx2100 lens, not sure what the weight was but I think it was close to 500 grams, eventhough the vx2100 is a very light camera just adding that wideanglelens on the front made it very difficult to handhold for extended periods which was no issue without it.

[Chris Harding]

I found that if I drop lead fishing sinkers into the 40 x 20 aluminium tube to a height of 15cm (which will probably be the length of the actual angled bit) they will add 900g to the weight of the aluminium as well so with nothing on the counterbalance externally I can already get close to 1kg behind the camera and it's really easy and simple to do DIY as opposed to getting machine shops to cutting great chunks of steel plate!! With the Matte box off the camera I'm thinking that 1kg should be enough but I'll first try it in real life!

Yeah with a 1kg matte box on the camera with 90% of the weight out front the laws of physics and leverage really kick in and that 1kg starts to feel like an extra 5kg!!!

Chris

[Chris Harding]

Still playing with counter balances !! I made a 40mm x 20mm aluminium box section that sits on the back of the shoulder pad and extends out 150mm then drops down at 45 degrees for another 150mm. I filled the box section with fishing sinkers and the whole piece weighs in at 1.1kg ... prior to putting it on I checked the centre of balance of the camera and it's just behind the tripod mount holes (You put the cam on a piece of pipe and move it back and forward until you reach an approximate spot where it's neither back nor front heavy.

Now if I screw on the counterbalance the centre of balance moves towards the back (as it should) and is roughly under the audio panel so it moves back about 100mm at best with the weight attached so the camera is still pretty front heavy. In theory of course, we want the centre of balance to be directly under the shoulder pad but unless the weight is a LOT heavier or better, it is moved further away from the shoulder pad, that won't happen. Putting 2kg directly over the top of the shoulder pad I feel won't move the centre of balance THAT much back and nearly doubles the camera weight BUT if you placed a weight of half that (say 1kg) something like 300mm behind the shoulder pad THEN leverage comes into play and the centre of balance will move almost back to the shoulder pad.

The issue is, how far back can one extend a weight?? You have to be practical and don't want something 500mm long behind your shoulder and the force exerted on the pad with a 1/2meter beam going back is going to put an awful amount of strain on the pad mount surely??? Tom has already pushed his weight to 2.1kg and Sony only recommend 1kg maximum on the mountings.

Still discovering!!

Chris