Matte Boxes - Show or Useful?

[Chris Harding]

Hi Craig

I don't use ND's on my cams simply because with my different lens diameters it means I need all sorts of adapters and it really became a pain. With a matt box I only need 4 x 4 filters regardless of what lens is on the camera and that is a huge asset for me.

I'm glad someone found another advantage, especially of your calibre!

Patrick, when I have a cam on the stedicam yes I often purposely shoot thru trees at the sun so I can get a nice sun flare on the footage but like guys who shoot everything with a tiny DOF, I prefer everything in moderation. I was shooting a ceremony a few weeks ago and even the photog was struggling with sun flares which is something you don't want during a wedding ceremony.

Tim? Funnily enough, I used my GoPro at the above wedding too and a LOT of the footage just totally flared out so maybe that isn't a bad idea ...maybe I can just tape a Weeties box over the camera. In fact I use an LCD shade on my stedicam so I can see the screen and it's made from 5mm foam board glued together with hot-melt ... works like a dream but I normally destroy it after about 4 or 5 weddings and have to make a new one ...costs be $2.50 for the black foam board and one stick of glue in the gun.
I see no reason at all why I couldn't make the same for a Gopro??? Just a square foam board box that slides over the camera and stops the flaring.

Just waiting for some comments back from Tom about using the zoom lens which extends 80mm if you zoom full but I cannot see why the front piece of the lens (which extends forwards) couldn't just go further thru the centre hole in the matte box ?? Tom is doing some pics of his rig for me when he gets a chance

Chris

[Tom Van den Berghe]

Chris, sorry for the late reply. At this moment only pictures.
I had to film last night.

If you have questions I will answer them.

[Chris Harding]

Thanks Tom

You are a star!! I just wanted to find out if there was enough clearance for the stock zoom if you zoom in tight and it simply sticks thru the hole in the matte box. Simple as that. I think one would have to be careful and not slide the matte box forward too much but rather allow the lens to poke out ..if you have the box further forward then at full wide it could quite easily vignette!

Your pics are much appreciated

Chris

[Tim Lewis]

Chris could you post a link to the matte box at Cine City so I can have a "consider" too.

I just sold one of my tripods and there is cash burning a hole in my pocket!

[Chris Harding]

Hi Tim

Video Matte box|Camshade Matte box

Just also bear in mind that if you don't have rails, you need them too!! That tripod money is as good as gone plus half your current savings too!!

Chris

[Paul Inglis]

In the past I found cheap Matte Boxes to be more hassle than there worth. If you’re going to get one I would highly recommend getting a good one. Cheap ones let stray light in where they shouldn't such as between the French Flag and the Matte Box or even worse between the box and the filter.

A quality Matte Box is an excellent tool for controlling the light and allowing the use of 4x4 filters. Just bear in mind that Matte Boxes aren't small and you’ll need rails. It adds to the equipment list and what you carry. I think they’re best left in the studio or for high budget shoots.

Now I got visions of the DOP saying to his assistance during a wedding ceremony “Adjust the nun knickers”.

Seriously though, these days I prefer a screw in filter (if required) and a stock hood and travel lighter. I think for most shooters a matte box are an expensive overkill that will get left behind once the novelty has worn off.

[John Nantz]

Chris,

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

I really need to install a "like" button for the forum.

I agree with the subsequent comment that Facebook has that covered, but what about a "Funny" button?

Videographers are creative in more ways than one and there have been some really good posts. Heck, just a couple days ago the series about the 1" sensor was good. It was so good I had difficulty reading the subsequent posts ...

[Steven Digges]

Chris,

You asked about the benefits of the box set up. If you are not going to really get into using 4x4 filters I see the idea as a pain for you. It detracts instead of improves your system. Weight, bulk, lens changes, and generally just something in your way that you do not need.

One man shooting weddings, two EA50s, a go pro, steadycam with vest, wireless mic systems, lights, a cart to push it all around. That is you, all good stuff. Why on earth would you want to slow yourself down with gadgets you know you don't need? You had to turn to this board for justification of usefulness.

Not knocking it. But I am saying I don't get it. So my vote is NO matte box.

(....Rant..) Deleted rant about how ridiculously consumed Americans are about how everything looks. No soap box today ; )

Steve

[Noa Put]

I"m with Steve, you would be better off getting this: HolyManta VND EF | MFT | Holymanta, as I understood Toms mattebox is for looks only and although I have to say my old camera looks very sexy the mattebox adds quite some bulk to the camera, including rails that have no function and will slow you down, ok for controlled shoots, if you plan on using filters but for a wedding that seems overkill to me.

[Chris Harding]

Thanks Guys

Comments are appreciated. I have to update the rails on the cameras anyway so the rails are already ordered. I use a rail system mainly on the B-Cam so I can use my ENG rig at receptions .. Us old guys need some support otherwise our back kills us!! My ENG rig fits under the rails with a sprung rod into a waist belt so all the weight is taken off the front end of the camera... Makes a huge difference when you have to handheld the camera thru 3 songs filming the dancing. The main reason for the matte boxes that fit the rails anyway was to be able to use standard ND filters with different lens sizes ..it's far easier to drop in a 4x4 ND into the Matte box slot and you are done instead of fiddling with adapter rings etc etc and then knowing my luck I'll invest in a ND system that allows me to go from a 72mm down to say 55mm and then decide to buy a new lens with an 82mm filter diameter.

Yes I don't need matte boxes BUT they might make life easier on the filter side? I might just order one unit give it a whirl or look at other ways to use ND's Funny fact is that with adapter rings and good quality BIG ND filters will actually cost more than buying 4x4 filters.

Chris

[Anthony Lelli]

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Hi Guys

I'm still toying with the idea of adding Matte boxes and rails to both cameras but I'm not really sure whether my desire for them is purely "because they make your camera look really cool" or whether they actually will help with stray light!! When I use the Tokina 11-16 on the camera it's petal hood seems quite ineffective and even with the stock lens hood I did struggle a little with the sun. I don't own any 4x4 filters so probably wouldn't use that holder (or maybe I should??)

Anyone else (I know Tom has one) using a matte box and feels they are worth the money?? or is just worth getting them as it makes your cameras look a lot more pro to the client!

Chris

they are mainly for show , and the flag to actually help should be really big. But on the ea50 it may be useful for the lee filters, ND. the screw-on filters are a pain to use, take it off, put it back , often while shooting. But on the kit there is the lens extending that will ruin the idea. Still Im thinking about it, not for the box but for the filters.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Anthony

Thanks for that. The lens extension is not really a problem. Simply shift the matt box forward so it clears the extending zoom, I seldom zoom outdoors at wedding more than 50% so the distance is only 35mm and with the huge opening I doubt whether it would vignette even at full zoom. Yep, the filter side makes life a lot easier too with a host of different lenses. The only time I MIGHT zoom more would be inside a tricky Church if I have to place myself far back and there an ND is not needed so the lens end can protrude or just take the box off !! I have the rails so I grabbed a couple of boxes and will report back on limitations with the stock lens regarding how much it can be moved. All my other lenses have minimum extended portions.

I needed the rails and facility for being able to mount on the stedicam easily and then pull the camera off and clip on the ENG stabilizer so it doesn't kill my back on long handhelds ...that camera will rarely zoom more than 2X so that's 99% on wide anyway!!

Chris

[Chris Harding]

Tom??

To shift slightly off the topic for a second. What happened to the round cylinder weight that was on the back of your camera. Is the new end piece also a counter weight?? I rather like the idea of it handing down at 45 degrees as it will lower the centre of balance too. Did you make that one yourself or is it a bought one??

Chris

[Anthony Lelli]

Chris,
how about the 80mm boxes (accepting 2 4x4 filters) that you can screw to the lens?

the counterweight actually works, got it by mistake and it stays on the mount permanently now. But I am about to abandon the ea50. two many marketing tricks to make it not as good as the others (and you know what I'm referring to) : Sony marketing lost control for few months over the sudden adjustments (from the sub-standard offers of the 5K so called pro-sumer money making models due to the D90 that revealed the trick of the small sensors), but now is back. look at the low light performance of the ea50 and compare it to the several years old SR11 ?the same. it's the same!. Now look at the performance of the more expensive models in the sony lineup and tell me what you see: isn't the marketing people that you see in the low light pictures out of the ea50? look closer at the borders... can't you see the marketing guys dancing? They work day and night to limit a model so we spend more. has always been like this in video: in order to produce you have to spend that amount of money , no way to find a shortcut: they always make sure that you can do up to a point, so they limit what you have . anyway we have the internet now, so we can find a way to make it public (what they do). At least we can let them know that we know. LOL

[Craig Marshall]

Before I sold that dreadful Sony kit 18-200 zoom, I used a simple $35 sunshade on rails. Of course, it will not take 4x4" filters but the lens could zoom 'through' it and it did prove to be a very good sun shade.

Here is a short 30 second clip I cut on the Vg20 with the Sunshade attached. I retained most of the rails, etc to take the 'real' matte box:

Sony VG20 custom '3 point' Porta-Rig on Vimeo