Matching the EA50 to the 5N

[Richard Crook]

I want to use my Sony NEX-5n as a "b-cam" to my EA50. I decided to match picture profiles so they edit together seamlessly. First some of the differences between the two cameras.

1) Resolution. The resolution between the two cams is identical. I don't see any "extra processing" done in the EA50 over the 5n.
2) Noise. They both have the same bitrate (28mbps) and the artifacts and noise levels are identical (with matching profiles).
3) Field of View. The 5n has a wider field of view. Super 35mm vs APS-c.
4) Native ISO. The ISOs are identical in brightness.
5) Dynamic Range. It looks as though the 5n actually has about 1 stop MORE dynamic range. But this is ONLY BECAUSE we can adjust the gamma curve differently than on the EA50. When you go -3 on contrast on the 5n, you are flattening out the gamma curve, pulling more information off the sensor than you can on the EA50, which does not have this feature. You can adjust the top and low ends (knee and black gamma) but you can't actually flatten it out as much as the 5n, giving the 5n an edge in this area.
6) Record Times. The 5n OVERHEATS after only about 5-10 minutes of continuous video recording. I actually placed a Radio Shack fan on the back of the camera and the problem went away. But even with the overheating problem solved, you still only get 30 minutes of continuous shooting before it stops recording.
7) Tools. The 5n does not have zebras. It really has just about all the other visual tools that the EA50 has - including peaking, histogram, focus assist. The 5n also has a meter that is common on still cameras which the EA50 does not.
8) Ergonomics. The ea50 wins all across the board. Actually it's better than the Red Epic, Sony Fs100/700, and F3/F5/F55. Perfect size/weight for run n gun shoots plus the eyepiece is in the right place without all the rigging necessary for other cameras. Why the FS100/700 didn't follow this form factor is beyond me.

MATCHING THE PROFILES:
I wanted a profile that requires some minor grading in post and also perfectly match the two cameras. Here are the profiles:

Sony NEX-5N
Profile: Standard
Contrast: -2
Saturation: -1
Sharpness: +1
Turn off HDR

Sony NEX-EA50
Black Level: 0
Gamma: ITU709
Black Gamma: Low, +7
Knee: Manual, 80%, -3
Color Mode: Standard, 8
Color Level: -1
Color Phase: 0
Color Depth, All 0
WB Shift: All 0
Detail: +3, Manual On, Type3, Limit 7

[Dmitri Zigany]

Regarding point 3... The EA50 is not Super35 and has the same 16.1 mp apsc sensor as many of the NEX still cameras (including the 5N, I believe). Are you sure the field of view is different? That seems odd.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Dmitri

I was also under the impression they both had APS-C sensors ..The 5N over here definitely has an APS-C sensor the same as the EA-50 so surely the angle of view with the same lens is identical too??

Our 5N's are most definitely not full frame and have the same crop factor as the EA-50

Using a 5N as a B-Cam seems a little pointless if it overheats after 10 minutes. What would happen if you were shooting with it over an hour and running say, 30 sec cutaway clips every few minutes at a Church wedding ceremony ... would the time in between recording be enough to cool the camera or would it still build up heat unless given a substantial time to cool in between record sessions ? I think I prefer my current setup with two EA-50's and a GoPro which can run as a standalone for an hour non-stop!

Chris

[Richard Crook]

The 5s for a bcam is not pointless, perhaps for weddings it is unless you do the fan hack. I don't shoot weddings so I guess it's a little different. Second cam for interviews, second cam for other kinds of footage, but not weddings.

The 5s has a super 35 field of view. The ea50 has an APS-c field of view. Two different fields of view guys, go ahead and go test it for yourselves if you don't believe me.

[Dmitri Zigany]

I have the NEX-3N that I sometimes use as b-cam for my EA50... Also same sensor... And while it overheats frequently it's usually not in 10 minutes... Been able to shoot for 28 minutes at times ;) Best is to open the screen a bit and have someone guard it and turn it off at times (if possible). Which defeats my intended use of sticking it on a tripod for a second angle when shooting... oh, well...

[James Manford]

I've used a 5N at a wedding and it is certainly pointless with it's quick overheating issues. Literally within 10 minutes or sooner! you most definitely need a fan hack to even consider using it professionally.

This is how my cameras progressed & changed and what i've settled on:

Sony VG10 & NEX 5N
Sony VG20 & NEX 5N
EA50 & Sony VG20
EA50 & Sony CX760
Finally settled with: FS100 & Sony CX760

The CX760 is the best B cam in my opinion.

All those camera changes occurred in the space of 2 years lol. That's a lot of money wasted buying and selling. The EA50 was a keeper, but an opportunity for a FS100 arised so I went ahead.

[Richard Crook]

Yeah the overheating problem sucks. But once you do the fan hack like I did, it's pretty awesome. I do interviews and use 2 5ns for alternate angles. I've done shoots where I stick the 5n on a suction mount to a vehicle or high up on a window. I did a Harley commercial and used them attached to different parts of the motorcycle. Last week I mounted the 5n to the shoe on the ea50 and kept it at 18mm and had a great 2nd wide angle to cut to.

These little cams are cheap and look great. Highly recommend for a bcam to the ea50.

[Chris Quevedo]

regardless, thank you for sharing this profile. i currently use your cpf-log profile for my fs100. would you say this profile you've posted would be compatible with matching a nex-ea50 to a fs100 as well?

or do you have a profile on hand you would use for that?

anyhow i appreciate your input, will be saving this for sure.

[Chris Quevedo]

i don't know about everyone else, but i'm more interested in using a Nikon D5200 for a b-cam after all the good reports i've heard of its image quality to price ratio :-/ just saying.
granted everything is give and take, there are so many options its hard to keep up these days

[Richard Crook]

Originally Posted by Chris Quevedo

regardless, thank you for sharing this profile. i currently use your cpf-log profile for my fs100. would you say this profile you've posted would be compatible with matching a nex-ea50 to a fs100 as well?

or do you have a profile on hand you would use for that?

anyhow i appreciate your input, will be saving this for sure.

I've had a lot of requests about matching the fs100 to the ea50. We don't use the fs100 anymore so I haven't even seen how the two cams compare. My guess was they would be pretty closely matched with the same picture profiles...is this not the case?

[Chris Harding]

Hi Richard

I have used the AbleCine profiles made for the FS100 on my EA-50's and they seem to match very well indeed. I know that quite a few guys here are using FS100 profiles and are happy with them so they must be very close!

I must give your profile a try!! I currently just use the PP3 profile with the colour level pushed +2 for indoors and then on outdoor footage I just lift saturation a tad in post.

It would indeed be great to have a profile that gives you a nice image in bright sunshine and also a decent picture indoors as at weddings we always have that scenario! I like your theory about lifting detail in camera as it must do a better job than adding sharpening in post.

Chris

[Chris Quevedo]

Originally Posted by Richard Crook

I've had a lot of requests about matching the fs100 to the ea50. We don't use the fs100 anymore so I haven't even seen how the two cams compare. My guess was they would be pretty closely matched with the same picture profiles...is this not the case?

Interesting, I've never heard of someone trading in a FS100 for a EA50. Was there any particular reason? Isn't the fs100's image supposed to be superior? Did you find the ergonomics trumped the image benefits?

[Chris Harding]

Hi Chris

From my side it was purely sacrificing a little low light performance for ergonomics .. The FS100, despite the image is seriously a "brick" for run 'n gun work .... if you are shooting in a studio setup always on a tripod then it's a great camera but running around weddings it just doesn't work for me.

I guess it's all to do with the kind of work you do ... the shoulder mount sold me instantly even with a smaller sensor and the power zoom is really useful too with my kind of work. Here they are only $1K price difference and for that you also only get no lever zoom which I'm used to. I guess if you are shooting in dim nightclubs or similar the 100 is hard to beat but I seldom have a low light issue! Fast lenses are cheap and easy to find and my two Nikon stills outfits have some fast and wide lenses that work well on the 50 so I use two of them and no complaints at this stage after 12 months of hard work!

Chris

[Richard Crook]

Originally Posted by Chris Quevedo

Interesting, I've never heard of someone trading in a FS100 for a EA50. Was there any particular reason? Isn't the fs100's image supposed to be superior? Did you find the ergonomics trumped the image benefits?

I didn't trade the FS100 for the EA50, I traded it for an F3 with s-log. I started doing a lot of higher end commercials and stuff where I was grading a lot. Recently I've been working with a couple new agencies that are wanting corporate-type straight to web marketing stuff with smaller budgets so I needed a camera that could edit with the f3 non s-log and also be great handheld and run n gun so the ea50 was my choice. On an unscaled little web video player I don't think anyone would notice or appreciate the image improvements of the fs100 enough to warrant the $$. Hopefully that makes sense.

[Chris Quevedo]

Yea that makes sense. "different strokes for different folks" as they say. thanks for the explanation. By the way, has your blog been taken down? There is a link to it on your site but it does nothing, just 404 error. Your blog post about your "c-log" for the fs100 is the profile I use most of the time and I really appreciated it. Sorry that was off the threads topic :-/