50p cameras

[James Hollingsworth]

Does anyone know of a fixed lens professional camcorder that shoots 50p to work alongside my nex systems? Seem all obvious choices like nx5 and jvc 600 don't. Even the Sony pmw200 doesn't appear to. I mean 1080 and not 720 by the way

[Chris Harding]

Hi James

Believe it or not the Panny AC-90 shoots 1080 50P comfortably at 28mbps and is under $2K as well.

Chris

[Ron Evans]

Depends what you mean by professional. The Sony NX30 and NX70 have much the same electronics as the EA50, AVCHD 2.0. The NX30 works fine with my NX5U and has an amazing stabilizer.

Ron Evans

[Chris Harding]

How are you defining "professional" James and what sort of price point are you expecting? My choice obviously was a second EA-50 and leave whatever lens on it that suits you...from your post it appears that you are looking for a 50P cam at a lower price point than the EA-50 otherwise that would be an obvious choice as a second camera? The only other lower priced unit would be as Ron says would be an NX30 which is around half the price of the EA-50 .... I still would prefer two identical cameras.

Chris

[Craig Marshall]

Although some of the other cameras mentioned do shoot 50P, several have very small sensors so in some cases, matching footage to your existing camera even at 50P may be problematic. I would try to match the EA50 with either a 2nd unit as recommended or a VG30, a second hand VG20 or the wonderful little NEX 5N with nearly 10 stops of Dynamic Range.

My NEX 5N shoots 50P with the 'same' 16Mpix APS-C sensor as the Vg20/30 and EA-50. I bought mine 'as new' on ebay for $400 with flash and SEL18-55 lens.

"Videographers who have been enticed to move in the direction of DSLR cameras for high quality video should take a look at the 5N as well. The 5N offers AVCHD 2.0 video recording at 1080 60p (PAL 50P), which is the highest rate currently available. At the moment, however, AVCHD 1080 60p is not widely supported by most editing software but can be edited with the newest version of Sony's PMB software. The 5N also is capable of recording video in the standard 1080 30p as well as a 'cinematic' 24p mode.

In terms of image quality the NEX-5N sits untouched at the top of the mirrorless interchangeable lens compact category. The low-light capability of its APS-C format CMOS sensor matches or exceeds what we've come to expect from the best of the current crop of APS-C DSLRs as well. Considering its sub $700 price point this is truly impressive, and makes the 5N a very attractive option for anyone looking to upgrade from a compact camera, or even as a second body alongside a more conventional DSLR outfit." DP Review

[James Manford]

I own both the EA50, NEX 5N & VG20.

But rarely use the VG20 (used to be my main cam, but now replaced by the EA50) the NEX 5n, is light weight and fast to use with the ability to do 50p.

Only downside? if you use it too much your unit may overheat.

[Paul Wood]

There have been quite a few comments on the performance of the NX70 - many negative, but I have found it to be a very useful camera - as Ron said, it shoots 1080 50p, and sits well as a B cam.

Its small form factor makes it very useful, especially without the XLR unit.
Downsides - no picture profiles or ND filters, but it performs well.(Also in the rain, or dusty conditions).

[Ron Evans]

I have a few small Sony camcorders, XR500, CX700 , NX30U and an older SR11. All take good video and practically see in the dark better than my NX5U !!! . I also have a HX30V Sony still/video which also takes good video at 60P. They all have sensors that are just a bit bigger than 1/3". The advantage the true video cameras have over the stills is long record times without overheating or hitting the record time limit. With a large battery the CX700 or NX30 will record unattended for about 6 hours or more. They are all a good match for my NX5U.

Ron Evans

[James Hollingsworth]

Thanks to everyone for the input. The camera I am looking for must have built in nd filters and a fixed lens, I don't need another detachable lens camera as I already have the ea50 and vg30. I am looking for a run and gun style camera like my old z1 but one that can shoot 1080 50p. I can't find such a thing on the market, plenty of 3 to 4 k cameras on the market that do everything but shoot 1080 50p, seems only sony are using it in their consumer and prosumer cameras. No doubt the replacement for the nx5 will have it but when will that be?

[James Hollingsworth]

Chris, the Panasonic ac90 does appear to shoot 50 p but has no nd filters and also I wonder how it is in low light? Perhaps they have a higher spec similar model with nd filters?

[Chris Harding]

Hi James

The AC-90 has auto ND's in the camera so as the iris tries to close, the ND's start to kick in and keep the aperture fairly wide which as you already know is critical for preventing image degradation. That's why I love the big sensor on the EA-50 ..I can shoot at F16 and still get a good image ...On the tiny 1/47" chips on the AC-90, the ND's keep it from getting much smaller than F4

Yes you can get an AC-130 that has traditional ND filters but the iris range really is pathetic ...you have to shoot constantly in manual and still have to change ND's manually even if a cloud moves over the sun ..I dumped mine after just 3 months ...The AF was also the worst I ever encountered!! Works pretty well as a totally manual camera but I was never impressed since it costs close to the EA-50

The AC-90 is good in low light but the NR in the camera overdoes the smoothing at high gain so you do end up with smeared images at high gain especially hair which tend to look like it's spray-painted!!!

Chris

[Ron Evans]

The Canon XA20/25 manual makes reference to ND filters but there are no buttons for that I can see.It just makes a reference to ND filters on page 66 but no further clarification of how they are used. It says ND filters will be available after F4 and then has a table so not sure if that means the actual iris stays at F4 and then ND filters provide the smaller values automatically !!

Ron Evans

[Chris Harding]

Hi Ron

The XA20 has a tiny 1/2.84" chip which is only a tiny bit bigger than the 1/3 " chips and the image tends to fall apart completely at F8 so manufacturers make an auto ND that comes in usually around the F4 mark so that the camera stays no smaller than F5.6 at any time ..the display (on the Panny's anyway) actually tell you your iris is at F11 BUT in fact it's really at F4 +ND1/4 ...it's easier to display the simulated F-stop like F16 on the LCD rather than say F4+1/64ND

All camcorders with small chips tend to use this method but only when there are no external ND's for the user to switch in manually. This was carefully explained to me by Barry Green who writes all the Panny handbooks and is somewhat of a guru on small sensor cameras.

Chris

[James Hollingsworth]

So am I right in saying there is no camera with 1080 50p and switchable external ND filters?

[Ron Evans]

The Panasonic AC160A has what you want but it is in the expensive range . Then there is the FS700 even more expensive. Yes Chris I am aware of the ND approach. The issue in the manual for the Canon is it wasn't clear when they would be used. I expect that in full manual they are not used as the camera cannot control what happens and since there are no switches they would not be accessible. Meaning full manual control would have the possibility of not being as good. 1/2.84 is not that small by today's standards the AC90 is a lot smaller and the sensors in my NX5U are smaller too. The sensor in my NX30U is similar in size though. If the B camera is to be used unattended then automatic is a better solution set up to use AE shift and Intelligent auto in which case the camera will decide when to use the ND's to maintain the lens in its sweet spot something that is difficult in manual control. I run all my small Sony's ( XR500, CX700 NX30U ) in this semi manual approach( spot focus, AE shift ) and they all work very well often doing better than the NX5U that I control !!!

Ron Evans