EA50 - B camera ideas

[Ray Lee]

Guess I post this here as its a B camera question and some of you own the VG20's and 30's

Is the VG20/VG30 small enough to hang from a huge lens (400 and 600) like you would with a DSLR? I feel the long ea50 needs support no doubt but, looking at the images of the VG20/30 it seems like they might be just fine if you dont knock them around.

[Steven Digges]

Yes. It is lighter than most DSLRs.

[James Manford]

The VG10/VG20 body is ridiculously light.

[Ray Lee]

researching so many cameras I must have mixed up my sizes, just got my VG30 and pretty sure its not going to stress the lens mount :)

[Erik Wittbusch]

That looks weird!

What's your purpose with that lens on the EA50?

[James Manford]

Originally Posted by Ray Lee

researching so many cameras I must have mixed up my sizes, just got my VG30 and pretty sure its not going to stress the lens mount :)

That's some head turning equipment isn't it !

As above, what lens is that and purpose?

[Ray Lee]

My need of the Nikon 400mm 2.8 AFS lens is motor sports photography, and only once in a while will it used for video for motorcycle road racing.... specifically slower corners, cresting a hill, large group of riders a tight locked down shot looks cool for a couple seconds as they come into and out of the zone of sharp focus when played back slow motion. I have a very old much much smaller Nikon 300 3.5 AIS that I love on the EA50 but its does not have than paper thin DOF I can get from a 400 or 600


The main use for the VG camera is going to be small sliders and jibs... the EA50 is just large enough to need more of a real jib and a fair amount of counter weight to fly but with the little VG30 one of those folding jibs look like they would work out well

[Craig Marshall]

I use the NEX 5n as B cam for my VG20 - same sensor. True, the VG20 has no 'picture profiles'. IMO, they are totally unnecessary if you know what you are doing. No film camera I ever shot with had digital 'picture profiles'. 'In those days' you used a matte box and learned how to use filters.

I currently use a standard 4x4" matte box with my Zeiss prime lenses and a selection of Schneider Optics 4x4" glass filters. It is a combination made in heaven as Schneider have produced filters specifically designed for modern CMOS sensors.

[Noa Put]

No picture profiles means the manufacturer dials in the profile for you, you could end up with a too contrasty or saturated look and there is no way back. I rather start from a flatter profile so I can get the look I want in post or dial in exactly the look I want in camera to match with any other camera I"m using. A camera that doesn't have that can be very difficult to match with other camera's.

[Ray Lee]

"No film camera I ever shot with had digital 'picture profiles'."

True, but those cameras didn't pick your film for you either and having a set profile is pretty much like living with one film stock.... Love my VG30 so far but I do wish I could crank down the sharpness and contrast a bit

[Craig Marshall]

Yes, OK but Noa and Ray, you are both missing my point. Let me play 'devil's advocate' for a moment. The VG20/30 and EA-50 are all 8 bit cameras, as are most DSLRs. They record a heavily compressed 4:2:0 AVCHD signal to SD card (or uncompressed 4:2:2 to third party SSD recorders via HDMI) but there is really not a lot you can do with an 8 bit signal as the 'latitude' and dynamic range just is not there. Best you can do is learn to expose carefully and not blow out the highlights as you'll never get them back.

From a professional broadcast perspective, any 8 bit camera is really a 'consumer toy'. The 'high end' consumer cameras (or 'prosumer') cameras we choose to work with are really designed to 'shoot a great picture' then 'show a great picture' on your HD TV or 'burn a great picture' to DVD or BluRay. (which is also an 8 bit 4:2:0 50i/60i medium)

Now, to my point: Filters.

If like me, you are trying to get the best possible performance from your 8 bit camera, then 'shooting flat' does have some advantages but whether your camera offers inbuilt 'picture profiles' or not, really does not matter because cinematographers have been using filters for years to effectively do the same thing. Ray "loves his VG30 so far but wishes he could crank down the sharpness and contrast a bit" and he can if he uses the correct filter. Whether you manipulate light in an analogue way with filters or in a digital way with 'picture profiles,' it's much the same thing so when I read people complaining about the lack of 'picture profiles' on 8 bit cameras, they are really showing their lack of understanding of the technology behind the craft. Of course, good filters are expensive. So are lenses. Cameras, however are cheap and quickly become obsolete. An investment in lenses and filters can last a lifetime.

I regularly shoot 'flat' on the VG20 by using Schneider's 'digicon' filters to reduce highlights and lift the blacks ie: compressing the image in much the same way a Dolby noise reduction compresses audio during recordings. For more technical information, read the documentation on Schneider's site: https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/mptv.htm

[Steven Digges]

I don't care how many bits you have, if you clip your highlights there is nothing there to repair.

Steve

[James Hollingsworth]

I am with Craig on getting the image right in the first place. Are these Schneider Digicon filters available in any kind of screw on form? Not always convenient for me to shoot with a matte box and I would love to reduce the high contrast on the VG30.

[Noa Put]

The question is what is "the right image in the first place"? Take my Sony cx730 handicams for instance. That camera doens't have any presets either, what you see is what you get but I happen to like what comes out of it the way the manufacturer has decided it. It's not too contrasty, not too much saturation, just right and that saves me a lot of time in post.

But you do have camera's that have too much contrast and/or too much saturation or too much sharpness as factory settings and to go further on craigs statement that "8 bit camera are really 'consumer toy's" that is also something that applies on camera that don't allow any image manipulation in camera, that's also a typical consumer camera limitation as those people don't want to deal with that kind of thing, they just want to point and shoot.

I don't see myself carrying around with a bunch of filters to bypass a limitation on the camera, with the ea50 I can just press a button and get the look I want, whether that is for getting a similar look from another b-camera, or to get nice punchy colors and a contrasty look, or just a flat image to do my own cc in post, it's just a push of a button.

that 'latitude' and dynamic range just is not there with 8 bit camera's is partially true, there is a big difference between a standard factory preset and the techniclor cinestyle preset for a dslr just to give an example. That alone has allowed me to take shots that where not possible before with the default presets and the same applies for my ea50, you don't have 12-13 stops dr like with a bmc but you can get a lot more detail in shadows and highlights in the same image using such flat presets which gives you a lot more options in post. Not sure how a filter on top of the lens would be able to achieve the same result, I might be wrong but have not seen a filter example that can do the same, but then again, if it where possible I need to add a filter instead of pushing a button.

[Ray Lee]

Adding $200-$300 in filters to get it right in camera seems like a crutch, not to mention the idea of stacking them over ND's seems like a silly idea when a simple tweak to the software would solve the issue.

Just to be 100% clear my gaol is indeed to get it right in camera... and "right" to me is a bit less sharpness and contrast.

The argument about it being 8 bit just makes my point... with 8 bit there is even less to "save" in post.