Rolling shutter

Noa Put · March 8th, 2013, 02:40 PM

it's the t2I

Chris Harding · March 8th, 2013, 06:34 PM

Hi Guys

Gosh you are really and truely pixel peeping now!! Firstly who would do swish pans like that on a regular basis and secondly I very much doubt whether anyone would see anything wrong with the footage anyway..It took me two replays to actually see the problem and I was looking for it so a viewer just would not see it at all.

I think the phrase "Don't sweat the small stuff" is apt here as this is getting to the point about being hypercritical about technical aspects of footage and you will end up getting so worried about "defects" that the original content of the footage will end up being neglected.

I give you footage of an incredibily stunning naked blonde model and you will come back to me and say .."Hmmm I don't like the little bit of rolling shutter at 1:45" ...Yeah right!!!

Chris

Noa Put · March 8th, 2013, 06:56 PM

Like I said before Chris, this is a informative post to whoever it concerns, for some people depending on what they shoot that kind of rolling shutter might be a problem. It's no use to each time come into these kind of posts asking yourself why this is mentioned and telling it's no issue for you, we know that by now.

With each camera I ever bought I always wished there was someone who would tell me what the real downsides where of a camera that everyone was raving about so I could make a calculated decision if the positive sides of a camera would outweigh the negative sides and if it would fit my shooting style and if I could have workarounds for it and if a maybe lower price would somewhat justify those negative points. That's the only thing I"m trying to do, show what the camera can do with my short movies but also show what it can't. If there are more people that think I"m wasting my time, let them speak up and I will stop so anyone wanting to buy the camera just has to find out the bad points themselves and then can come to complain on this forum so we can tell them it's no issue for us.

Jerome Cloninger · March 8th, 2013, 07:02 PM

Well, Noa was just showing us an extreme shot of the rolling shutter issue. The whole thing is rolling shutter issue except in between pans. You'll notice the vertical lines in the fence and post is more slanted on the EA50 than the 550d. Pretty much ALL CMOS chips on the market is rolling shutter where the image is captured from the top of the frame down to the bottom line by line whereas CCD's are global shutter where the whole image is captured by the sensor in one take. Another notice of rolling shutter is where a camera flash goes off and parts of the frame is bright and not the entire frame is a flash.

There was one clip I remember seeing where a guy was sawing some styrofoam or similar material and the edge of the saw blade edge looked like it "bent"...

No, most people would not pan like this but this was just an extreme pan to show it. Will the average viewer notice??? Probably not, but I don't shoot for the average viewer. I shoot for me. I've always said that the average viewer will NOT notice right away the strides I/we take to do what we do, however, subconsciously, the average viewer WILL notice a difference the works as a whole. I have people say, "did you make such and such commercial? It has your look." I ask what that look is and they say, "I don't know how to explain it, like your work."

"Pixel peeping...." HA! Maybe so.........

Jerome Cloninger · March 8th, 2013, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

If there are more people that think I"m wasting my time, let them speak up and I will stop so anyone wanting to buy the camera just has to find out the bad points themselves and then can come to complain on this forum so we can tell them it's no issue for us.

I appreciate these posts.

Chris Harding · March 8th, 2013, 08:14 PM

Hi Noa

No you are not wasting your time at all! You are bringing up issues that you have found that concern you and that is always appreciated .. Most people will not notice it at all and I'm sure that most camera operators won't even worry about it ..I know I don't cos a bride or Realtor is not going to be concerned about the odd vertical line not being vertical. However was is very important indeed it that you have taken the time and trouble to discover these issues and whether they concern others or not is not important..What is important that you have put in a huge amount of effort to disclose the issues and by doing that others can think to themselves ..."I think I had better do this pan shot a bit further to the left away from the picket fence with it's upright slats ...thank you Noa " In the same situation I can also change location if I notice bad moire on the screen but only because you have made a note of it so when doing building shots others will now take care with their shot.

Will people not buy the camera based on your findings?? If their work was very much architectural based I think they would take notice .. When I decided to buy 2 Panasonic AC-130's I read posts all about the bad a drifting auto-focus ..I ignored that advice of course and paid the price and had to resell the cameras but really I should have heeded it!!

Keep discovering the little quirks that do appear because they truly are appreciated.

Chris

James Manford · March 9th, 2013, 01:09 AM

That is severe indeed !

I never pan like that anyway though.

There are many faults with this camera, but which camera doesn't have them? As you rightly said, you just have to work around these.

Noa Put · March 9th, 2013, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Will people not buy the camera based on your findings?? If their work was very much architectural based I think they would take notice ..

Exactly what I"m doing, I"m not tearing down the camera, just pointing out what's not so good and leave it up to any new buyer if that would be an issue for them BUT I also show what is good according to me by presenting my own work because otherwise I would just be a troll :D I"m also no test expert and I do hope someone will tell me I"m doing it wrong so that what appears to be an issue could maybe be solved with another setting. (I have seen "tests" from users telling a camera had a soft image when they found out later they hadn't used the ND in bright sunlight and the iris was almost completely closed, so often findings are a user error as well but as long as that is corrected it's ok)

The only reason why I correct people when I think they are giving wrong information is because I have based purchasing decisions before based on findings from some known videographers to find out issues later on that where never mentioned and I would be disappointed. I think especially guys like Philip Bloom or Chris (not targeting these guys but just as an example) have a responsibility to take as their voice weighs much more on the buying behavior then a simple "nobody" like me. There is often a reason why some are supported by Canon or Sony because they know these guys can have a big influence on the sales. That's also why I would expect they would do a thorough review before making claims about something they didn't even bother to check.

Anthony Lelli · February 14th, 2014, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Hi Guys
Firstly who would do swish pans like that on a regular basis Chris

soccer games for example? from up there in the press box, looking down. not only that, when I am the only camera shooting it may get even faster than that for sudden changes. I have to thank Noa for his splendid contribution.
I have a question about the lanc , will the lens allow constant speeds set from the remote controller? or it's just variable from pressure. The camera shoots beautiful footage , ad it's the only camera with a real zoom for that quality. The difference (in quality) between the ea50 and all the others (EX1 or NX5 for example) is substantial but in my case the zoom is too short (for me) to take the camera to work. And I also have the "feeling" that Sony wants to keep this model under observation and don't give a real zoom lens , which means (like always happens with video) that they want to decide which model to place for different demands. You can do up to this with 3K , for more you have to spend the double or triple (and just for few little features sometimes).. it's marketing. sounds familiar guys?

March 8th, 2013, 02:40 PM	#16
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Rolling shutter it's the t2I

March 8th, 2013, 06:34 PM	#17
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Rolling shutter Hi Guys Gosh you are really and truely pixel peeping now!! Firstly who would do swish pans like that on a regular basis and secondly I very much doubt whether anyone would see anything wrong with the footage anyway..It took me two replays to actually see the problem and I was looking for it so a viewer just would not see it at all. I think the phrase "Don't sweat the small stuff" is apt here as this is getting to the point about being hypercritical about technical aspects of footage and you will end up getting so worried about "defects" that the original content of the footage will end up being neglected. I give you footage of an incredibily stunning naked blonde model and you will come back to me and say .."Hmmm I don't like the little bit of rolling shutter at 1:45" ...Yeah right!!! Chris

March 8th, 2013, 06:56 PM	#18
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Rolling shutter Like I said before Chris, this is a informative post to whoever it concerns, for some people depending on what they shoot that kind of rolling shutter might be a problem. It's no use to each time come into these kind of posts asking yourself why this is mentioned and telling it's no issue for you, we know that by now. With each camera I ever bought I always wished there was someone who would tell me what the real downsides where of a camera that everyone was raving about so I could make a calculated decision if the positive sides of a camera would outweigh the negative sides and if it would fit my shooting style and if I could have workarounds for it and if a maybe lower price would somewhat justify those negative points. That's the only thing I"m trying to do, show what the camera can do with my short movies but also show what it can't. If there are more people that think I"m wasting my time, let them speak up and I will stop so anyone wanting to buy the camera just has to find out the bad points themselves and then can come to complain on this forum so we can tell them it's no issue for us.

March 8th, 2013, 07:02 PM	#19
Jerome Cloninger Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: East TN Posts: 415	Re: Rolling shutter Well, Noa was just showing us an extreme shot of the rolling shutter issue. The whole thing is rolling shutter issue except in between pans. You'll notice the vertical lines in the fence and post is more slanted on the EA50 than the 550d. Pretty much ALL CMOS chips on the market is rolling shutter where the image is captured from the top of the frame down to the bottom line by line whereas CCD's are global shutter where the whole image is captured by the sensor in one take. Another notice of rolling shutter is where a camera flash goes off and parts of the frame is bright and not the entire frame is a flash. There was one clip I remember seeing where a guy was sawing some styrofoam or similar material and the edge of the saw blade edge looked like it "bent"... No, most people would not pan like this but this was just an extreme pan to show it. Will the average viewer notice??? Probably not, but I don't shoot for the average viewer. I shoot for me. I've always said that the average viewer will NOT notice right away the strides I/we take to do what we do, however, subconsciously, the average viewer WILL notice a difference the works as a whole. I have people say, "did you make such and such commercial? It has your look." I ask what that look is and they say, "I don't know how to explain it, like your work." "Pixel peeping...." HA! Maybe so......... __________________ Jerome www.jeromecloninger.com

March 8th, 2013, 08:14 PM	#21
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Rolling shutter Hi Noa No you are not wasting your time at all! You are bringing up issues that you have found that concern you and that is always appreciated .. Most people will not notice it at all and I'm sure that most camera operators won't even worry about it ..I know I don't cos a bride or Realtor is not going to be concerned about the odd vertical line not being vertical. However was is very important indeed it that you have taken the time and trouble to discover these issues and whether they concern others or not is not important..What is important that you have put in a huge amount of effort to disclose the issues and by doing that others can think to themselves ..."I think I had better do this pan shot a bit further to the left away from the picket fence with it's upright slats ...thank you Noa " In the same situation I can also change location if I notice bad moire on the screen but only because you have made a note of it so when doing building shots others will now take care with their shot. Will people not buy the camera based on your findings?? If their work was very much architectural based I think they would take notice .. When I decided to buy 2 Panasonic AC-130's I read posts all about the bad a drifting auto-focus ..I ignored that advice of course and paid the price and had to resell the cameras but really I should have heeded it!! Keep discovering the little quirks that do appear because they truly are appreciated. Chris

March 9th, 2013, 01:09 AM	#22
James Manford Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,393	Re: Rolling shutter That is severe indeed ! I never pan like that anyway though. There are many faults with this camera, but which camera doesn't have them? As you rightly said, you just have to work around these.