First minor problem at DVinfo.net

Chris Harding · February 9th, 2013, 07:47 PM

Hi Guys I was shooting a wedding yesterday and due to the intense heat and brightness of the day I popped an ND8 on the EA-50 (I was using it for cutaways) I just noticed during footage preview that the overall image seems to have a very dominant reddish cast ?? OK, it was very very bright but the green grass does tend to be quite washed out and biased to the reddish side ..I can easily correct in post but I'm wondering why the upset in balance when I use the ND8 filter ..I haven't noticed any cast at all while using the ND4

Who has some theories??? I was using my Panasonic (for the last time) as a main cam and no cast on that as it has built in ND's ....Do high value ND's affect colour balance???

Chris

James Manford · February 9th, 2013, 09:44 PM

I think you have answered your own question there.

Personally, my guess is good as yours. This is probably another little problem with this camera, and something we will have to work around. The fact is has a larger, APS-C sensor may have something to do with it.

Chris Harding · February 9th, 2013, 10:55 PM

Hi James

Footage with the same filter a little later in the day had no issues at all so it's a very strange occurence. Now, I have just finished talking to my photographer and a few weekends ago he shot a wedding at a different location and all the outdoor shots on his Nikons have a red cast...that's 3 cameras PLUS he even lfound a few guests that had done the same thing with personal cameras (and even iPhones) and all pics were red....Could this be an atmospheric condition that causes digital gear to go red??? My wedding was at 4pm and at 5:30 the photoshoot footage is fine ..it was only the 4pm footage and just the cutaways of the guest, admittedly in bright sunlight ... the main cam fixed on the couple under a gazebo near the water was perfectly balanced .... Anyone else every had this weird situation??? Bear in mind it was 40 degrees Celcius and no wind and a very high UV too (in fact a groomsman fainted!!!) I certainly don't think it's camera related as my photog has no issues but he was shooting the couple not the guests in full sun!!

Any weather scientists among us have any explanation for this..my photog would also like to know why he had the same issue 3 weeks ago and 3 different cameras (in fact he had to scrap some pics as they were too badly cast in red).....Maybe we had an alien mothership over us????

Chris

Noa Put · February 10th, 2013, 03:51 AM

nd filters, especially cheaper ones tend to introduce colorcasts so that might be the issue, was your whitebalance in auto or manual when the problem occurred?

James Manford · February 10th, 2013, 05:07 AM

Slightly off topic ...

But I envy the weather conditions your living in !!!!! It's miserable here in the UK

Chris Harding · February 10th, 2013, 05:38 AM

Hey Noa

Thanks for the input .... I had the same filter on from 3pm thru to 6pm for outdoor shots and it only happened with cutaways into bright sun..forward ones were good cos it was less bright ...directly after the ceremony the footage is all perfect as well (auto WB BTW ..the Sony does a really good job too!!)

I did the bridal congrats in the shade with no issues and the stedicam photoshoot in both sun and shade BUT a hour and a bit later.... With Realty shoots I tend to use the ND4 but yesterday was really, really hot and bright with zero shade apart from a gazebo. I wonder if the camera just got too hot as well???

It's simply to fix of course (and they are only guest cutaways too) but it would be nice to know the answer ..the single ND's were $40.00 a pop (not cheap ebay ones either)

What's still a mystery is my photog getting a red cast (no ND's or filters on his 3 Nikons at all) and all 3 cameras had red casts in the mid afternoon sun. (That was a few weeks ago and really hot as well)

James ?? Don't wish for something you might regret!! We have had the 4th day over 35 today (It was 42!!)
Tomorrow is also forecast 41 and the next two following 39 and 40 (All Celcius !!!)
Better you send me down a bucketload of snow ...I could really use it in the next few days!!!

Chris

Noa Put · February 10th, 2013, 05:42 AM

Would it not be safer to use a outdoor WB preset instead of leaving it in auto? The auto WB is very good but once you start adding filters in front of the lens the auto wb might be fooled and give you a wrong reading.

Chris Harding · February 10th, 2013, 08:37 AM

Thanks for the advice Noa!!

I'll see if I can maybe replicate the issue this week..Monday to Wednesday here is going to be a sweltering 40 degrees Celcius or over so conditions might be the same!!

Chris

Bob Hart · February 10th, 2013, 09:14 AM

Chris. I might be barking at shadows but it seems with ND8, you may be encountering infra-red contamination. In combination with a white balance running wild and free, that may be sufficient to set off some weird stuff.

Infrared contamination apparently shows up as ochre hue blacks or magenta blacks. Strange you should raise this today as I had a weird hue with a mix of HMI and sunlight with the HMI wearing half CTB to fake moonlight or early evening. It yielded a mauve background light instead of the blue and was impossible to grade out without wrecking the lamplight. It's in the last shot in the clip. To camera, it was the earlier of the two.

We broke for late lunch at 2pm and recommenced shooting at about 2.45pm. Earlier there was some daylight spill off the white wall of the house. Later the tree shadow had crept up.

With the same lighting setup, I was able to extract a truer blue but this might also be due to setting up the exposure for a silhoutte - lots of variables there.

There has been a fire south of us somewhere because helicopters and waterbombers have been flying over, so there may be something happening in the atmosphere not readily apparent. Smoke can make things go reddish.

Camera - SI2K, default look, WB 3200 to provoke blue hue for the look. The looks and whitebalance are not burned into the RAW file.

Chris Harding · February 10th, 2013, 06:50 PM

Hi Bob

That sounds like a very likely cause and actually makes sense! My mate Noa already has said that BD's can cause a colour shift. Now, I was also incorrect in saying that footage after the ceremony had no cast! If you look carefully it's also there but slightly less obvious..I did a white balance on the NLE timeline and the difference is clear and all the afternoon footage...Maybe the ND8 was just enough to tip it over but I do like the infra red contamination theory...Luckily it's easy to fix in Sony Vegas using the WB plugin... The footage was a tad over-exposed as well but very minor!!

Thanks to all with suggestions!! At least it's nothing serious that cannot be rectified..Just for fun I'll run a few tests between clear glass, ND4 and ND8 .. however today was supposed to be clear skies and 41 degrees but so far it's cloudy so I'll see if the cloud cover burns off before testing.

Chris

Steven Digges · February 10th, 2013, 11:25 PM

Come on Guys,

Your letting me down here. A logical explanation like smoke from a distant wild land fire. That works but it is no fun. I was betting on the mother ship testing landing sites and in the end......Chris was going to get the glorious shot of it landing with flashing lights and a beautiful red glow....the little green men would not look very green because the new EA50 would fail us in the difficult WB situation. But that's OK. When CNN anchors were discussing world wide if the little guys were in fact green or not we here at DVINFO would know it was extraterestereal white balance interference.

Sounds like a lot more fun to me than a scientific explanation.....Oh well, reality strikes again. My hat is not off yet because there is still no one that has that "REAL" footage of Bigfoot or the mother ship. But one day if it happens, I hope it is at least one of us at DVINFO.....but, I know....it will be someone with an I-phone instead....

Do I need to say...please read humor into this???

Chris Harding · February 11th, 2013, 12:53 AM

Hey Steve

Problem actually is solved but I have posted some screen caps in a new thread...we actually almost had a mother ship.. next door to the venue a helicopter was giving rides and it made enough noise for an alien spacecraft during the ceremony.

Don't worry humour is the best way to relax here so I appreciate your comments. John Knight from New Zealand has delightful comments and sarcasm in his posts too..worth a read!!

Chris

February 9th, 2013, 07:47 PM	#1
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	First minor problem Hi Guys I was shooting a wedding yesterday and due to the intense heat and brightness of the day I popped an ND8 on the EA-50 (I was using it for cutaways) I just noticed during footage preview that the overall image seems to have a very dominant reddish cast ?? OK, it was very very bright but the green grass does tend to be quite washed out and biased to the reddish side ..I can easily correct in post but I'm wondering why the upset in balance when I use the ND8 filter ..I haven't noticed any cast at all while using the ND4 Who has some theories??? I was using my Panasonic (for the last time) as a main cam and no cast on that as it has built in ND's ....Do high value ND's affect colour balance??? Chris

February 9th, 2013, 09:44 PM	#2
James Manford Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,393	Re: First minor problem I think you have answered your own question there. Personally, my guess is good as yours. This is probably another little problem with this camera, and something we will have to work around. The fact is has a larger, APS-C sensor may have something to do with it.

February 9th, 2013, 10:55 PM	#3
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: First minor problem Hi James Footage with the same filter a little later in the day had no issues at all so it's a very strange occurence. Now, I have just finished talking to my photographer and a few weekends ago he shot a wedding at a different location and all the outdoor shots on his Nikons have a red cast...that's 3 cameras PLUS he even lfound a few guests that had done the same thing with personal cameras (and even iPhones) and all pics were red....Could this be an atmospheric condition that causes digital gear to go red??? My wedding was at 4pm and at 5:30 the photoshoot footage is fine ..it was only the 4pm footage and just the cutaways of the guest, admittedly in bright sunlight ... the main cam fixed on the couple under a gazebo near the water was perfectly balanced .... Anyone else every had this weird situation??? Bear in mind it was 40 degrees Celcius and no wind and a very high UV too (in fact a groomsman fainted!!!) I certainly don't think it's camera related as my photog has no issues but he was shooting the couple not the guests in full sun!! Any weather scientists among us have any explanation for this..my photog would also like to know why he had the same issue 3 weeks ago and 3 different cameras (in fact he had to scrap some pics as they were too badly cast in red).....Maybe we had an alien mothership over us???? Chris

February 10th, 2013, 03:51 AM	#4
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: First minor problem nd filters, especially cheaper ones tend to introduce colorcasts so that might be the issue, was your whitebalance in auto or manual when the problem occurred?

February 10th, 2013, 05:07 AM	#5
James Manford Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,393	Re: First minor problem Slightly off topic ... But I envy the weather conditions your living in !!!!! It's miserable here in the UK

February 10th, 2013, 05:38 AM	#6
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: First minor problem Hey Noa Thanks for the input .... I had the same filter on from 3pm thru to 6pm for outdoor shots and it only happened with cutaways into bright sun..forward ones were good cos it was less bright ...directly after the ceremony the footage is all perfect as well (auto WB BTW ..the Sony does a really good job too!!) I did the bridal congrats in the shade with no issues and the stedicam photoshoot in both sun and shade BUT a hour and a bit later.... With Realty shoots I tend to use the ND4 but yesterday was really, really hot and bright with zero shade apart from a gazebo. I wonder if the camera just got too hot as well??? It's simply to fix of course (and they are only guest cutaways too) but it would be nice to know the answer ..the single ND's were $40.00 a pop (not cheap ebay ones either) What's still a mystery is my photog getting a red cast (no ND's or filters on his 3 Nikons at all) and all 3 cameras had red casts in the mid afternoon sun. (That was a few weeks ago and really hot as well) James ?? Don't wish for something you might regret!! We have had the 4th day over 35 today (It was 42!!) Tomorrow is also forecast 41 and the next two following 39 and 40 (All Celcius !!!) Better you send me down a bucketload of snow ...I could really use it in the next few days!!! Chris

February 10th, 2013, 05:42 AM	#7
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: First minor problem Would it not be safer to use a outdoor WB preset instead of leaving it in auto? The auto WB is very good but once you start adding filters in front of the lens the auto wb might be fooled and give you a wrong reading.

February 10th, 2013, 08:37 AM	#8
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: First minor problem Thanks for the advice Noa!! I'll see if I can maybe replicate the issue this week..Monday to Wednesday here is going to be a sweltering 40 degrees Celcius or over so conditions might be the same!! Chris

February 10th, 2013, 09:14 AM	#9
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Re: First minor problem Chris. I might be barking at shadows but it seems with ND8, you may be encountering infra-red contamination. In combination with a white balance running wild and free, that may be sufficient to set off some weird stuff. Infrared contamination apparently shows up as ochre hue blacks or magenta blacks. Strange you should raise this today as I had a weird hue with a mix of HMI and sunlight with the HMI wearing half CTB to fake moonlight or early evening. It yielded a mauve background light instead of the blue and was impossible to grade out without wrecking the lamplight. It's in the last shot in the clip. To camera, it was the earlier of the two. MOOD TEST - YouTube We broke for late lunch at 2pm and recommenced shooting at about 2.45pm. Earlier there was some daylight spill off the white wall of the house. Later the tree shadow had crept up. With the same lighting setup, I was able to extract a truer blue but this might also be due to setting up the exposure for a silhoutte - lots of variables there. There has been a fire south of us somewhere because helicopters and waterbombers have been flying over, so there may be something happening in the atmosphere not readily apparent. Smoke can make things go reddish. Camera - SI2K, default look, WB 3200 to provoke blue hue for the look. The looks and whitebalance are not burned into the RAW file. Last edited by Bob Hart; February 10th, 2013 at 09:28 AM. Reason: error

February 10th, 2013, 06:50 PM	#10
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: First minor problem Hi Bob That sounds like a very likely cause and actually makes sense! My mate Noa already has said that BD's can cause a colour shift. Now, I was also incorrect in saying that footage after the ceremony had no cast! If you look carefully it's also there but slightly less obvious..I did a white balance on the NLE timeline and the difference is clear and all the afternoon footage...Maybe the ND8 was just enough to tip it over but I do like the infra red contamination theory...Luckily it's easy to fix in Sony Vegas using the WB plugin... The footage was a tad over-exposed as well but very minor!! Thanks to all with suggestions!! At least it's nothing serious that cannot be rectified..Just for fun I'll run a few tests between clear glass, ND4 and ND8 .. however today was supposed to be clear skies and 41 degrees but so far it's cloudy so I'll see if the cloud cover burns off before testing. Chris

February 10th, 2013, 11:25 PM	#11
Steven Digges Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,828	Re: First minor problem Come on Guys, Your letting me down here. A logical explanation like smoke from a distant wild land fire. That works but it is no fun. I was betting on the mother ship testing landing sites and in the end......Chris was going to get the glorious shot of it landing with flashing lights and a beautiful red glow....the little green men would not look very green because the new EA50 would fail us in the difficult WB situation. But that's OK. When CNN anchors were discussing world wide if the little guys were in fact green or not we here at DVINFO would know it was extraterestereal white balance interference. Sounds like a lot more fun to me than a scientific explanation.....Oh well, reality strikes again. My hat is not off yet because there is still no one that has that "REAL" footage of Bigfoot or the mother ship. But one day if it happens, I hope it is at least one of us at DVINFO.....but, I know....it will be someone with an I-phone instead.... Do I need to say...please read humor into this??? __________________ www.CorporateShow.com Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!

February 11th, 2013, 12:53 AM	#12
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: First minor problem Hey Steve Problem actually is solved but I have posted some screen caps in a new thread...we actually almost had a mother ship.. next door to the venue a helicopter was giving rides and it made enough noise for an alien spacecraft during the ceremony. Don't worry humour is the best way to relax here so I appreciate your comments. John Knight from New Zealand has delightful comments and sarcasm in his posts too..worth a read!! Chris