Initial Comments - 50/1.8 for weddings

[Steven Digges]

100% agreed Chris...My new Metabones adapter, Sony EX to Canon EF, not the new power booster, should be here within an hour. I will have the entire 16MM to 350MM range covered by Canon glass. I have no intention of it replacing my kit lens at all times.

Steve

[Chris Harding]

Hi Steve

I guess for guys like Noa who will never use the stock lens then the body only option might have been worth waiting for. GlobalMedia show the K option but it's still listed as a preliminary item so it's not yet in stock. The zoom rocker even if you use a prime still allows the 2X zoom which could be very useful.

I don't have a barrage of lenses like you do so that would be a huge cost for me getting them from scratch and as my work (especially Realty which I do every day) is mainly video based footage rather than creative footage the stock lens works very well for me. Then again I might look at a Sigma 19F2.8 for Realty as I rarely zoom and everything is shot wide so an extra stop might help in dim and dingy rooms inside the properties.

Anyone with a Sigma 19mm here?? I'd like to know if the autofocus is slower or quicker than the Sony stock lens???

Chris

[James Manford]

Hey Chris

I owned the 19mm Sigma for a while before I sold it.

It's a fantastic lens, with fast autofocus, but I didn't get much use from it as I had a SEL18200 which sufficed for my needs on my VG20. But it was definitely faster than the SEL18200 which practically matches the SELP18200 on the EA50.

[Noa Put]

I guess for guys like Noa who will never use the stock lens

This I never said :) I will use that lens quite often but it will completely depend on what I am shooting, I only don't plan to use the camera at weddings a lot, just because it's too big to carry around all day, I bhought the camera to get into another market then weddings only.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Noa

My sincere apologies then!! I assumed (wrongly!) that you were only using your primes on an adapter as the stock lens was too slow.

I was actually just edited footage from the bridal prep on Sunday and at F3.5 you can still squeeze a little DOF from the lens ...it looks a lot better than a camera with small chips where everything is in focus.

James? Thanks for that ..with Realty shoots (which could be done with a domestic camcorder actually) the EA-50 stock lens is a little slow especially on big white surfaces (walls and ceilings) but it does get there OK!! I think the 19mm F2.8 might be worth a try..if I need to hilight anything I simply move closer ..space is no problem as these are empty homes!!

Everyone here is a big help too!!

Chris

[Noa Put]

I"m actually very pleased with the quality of the footage from the coalmine video I shot with the stocklens. As long as I don't need a faster lens (when it's too dark) or when I don't need a shallower dof or a focal length above or below 18 and 200mm I certainly will be using this lens as my main lens as I found it's very easy to quickly changing focal lengths without the hassle of constantly changing lenses.

[James Hobert]

Originally Posted by Peter Rush

That's exactly what I got - with my old Z1 the worst I got was flash/overexposed frame which was OK as somehow it's what your eyes see but with the 5D (and I'm hoping not with the EA50) I get an overexposed bar covering about a half of the screen which just looks strange - the last wedding i shot with the 5d the photog shot everything in multiples so his flash was going off like a strobe all the time - very annoying!

This thread certainly spans across many issues but its a great read. I believe the flash issue is called "flash banding" and it's in pretty much all CMOS sensors. Some worse than others. Cameras like the Z1 that Peter mentioned are CCD sensor which do not usually have the same flash banding issue so a flash looks like one single full frame pop and is much more pleasing. I know that Panasonic's HVX250 has "FBC" (flash banding compensation) which can help eliminate that issue on its CMOS sensor and there are other ways mentioned in this thread of removing it in post (or if you have a global shutter cam) but from what I know its a CMOS issue so it'll most likely be there to some extent in the EA50. However, it doesn't seem to bother "most" regular people in my experience. Or at least I've had only a few people actually bring it up saying that it bothered them seeing it in other peoples videos.

Now I come from a small sensor world. I shoot Weddings exclusively all year long. In my price range the majority of my "competition" use DSLRs. But I know full well that they can't get much of what I get with a smaller sensor camera just as I really can't get some of what they get with a larger sensor and faster lenses. That's why I found this thread fascinating. Different strokes for different folks. I personally see a great value in the EA50 stock lens. But that's due to my style of shooting. And by the way, I disagree with the notion earlier that zooms are sign of an amateur. Allow me to go on a bit of a tangent for a second here about this. I've read that about zooming being amateurish a few times in various forums and it is true in a lot of ways. Fast zooms, yes (unless of course its an artistic choice). But really slow zooms, especially at a higher frame rate slowed down even further in post can look fantastic and anything but amateur. That's the beauty of a versatile lens like the stock lens. If you want to, you can! In fact for most weddings I probably do a crawl type zoom (again, in slow motion which makes it feel more like a dolly than a zoom) with an additional move laterally or craning up for the majority of my detail shots and I'd say some of my detail shots can easily rival the best detail shots you'll see from any DSLR shooter. But that's my style. It's not for everyone. It's fun to be unique and a bit different sometimes and it can't be all that bad because business is great. And trust me, I've seen it when its bad, and yes, it can look amateurish, but it doesn't have to be. The stock lens gives someone like me the ability to do things that I previously couldn't do on any larger sensor camera. That is one of the main reasons I'm looking into investing in 2 or 3 of these cameras at some point...or possibly a couple FS700's. We'll see.

Noa said it best when he said that the stock lens gives you that flexibility and comfortability of the run n gun cameras that allow you to catch "almost" everything, but the real beauty is that this camera allows for you to step outside that "comfort zone" into a new world of creativity and filmmaking with other lenses should you choose to do that. For that reason (and because it's a hell of a lot less than the FS700 since I'm looking at grabbing 3 cams) this camera has really peaked my interest since it was first released. I'm not sold yet, but I'm lurking :)

I look forward to more posts with actual footage here on these forums. I loved reading here how each of you used different lenses for different purposes and which ones we're your "go-to" lenses for certain circumstances. Good stuff.

[Chris Harding]

Hi James

One thing I do find is at 18mm on the stock lens the autofocus is sometimes a little slow and you do have to watch DOF even at F3.5.

I'm also going to step out of my comfort zone and try the Sigma 19mm ..F2.8 is better for my indoor (usually) video guestbook where I'm flitting from guest to guest who say "something nice to the couple" ..I have had to wait a bit with the stock lens until the focus peaking tells me I'm sharp .. the Sigma is supposed to be a bit quicker for focus BUT I will need to watch DOF even more....I just found for up close video the 50mm was a bit too much so I was losing my ideal mic distance.

It is still the nicest cam I have used for a long time and I have been with Panasonic for over 20 years starting with an NV100 recorder and WVP100 camera with a Saticon tube so that must say something..the second cam is about to be ordered for me too!!

Chris

[Ron Evans]

Most CMOS chips scan in a sequence rather than the whole chip at once. So simplistically when a still flash fires its duration is less than a full scan time so that not all the chip is scanned when the flash is present. Hence only some of the image is overexposed. It should thus be possible to interpolate from the frame in front and behind to correct for the flash. Not sure how either Panasonic or Sony do this. CCD's accept a full frame charge and then are read out in sequence so will have the full frame overexposed. Global shutter CMOS have a similar response.

Ron Evans

[Steven Digges]

The duration of an average still flash is 1/10,000th of a second.

[Ron Evans]

Steve I think it depends what flash unit, from what source and for what purpose. In the studio or using flash to stop motion you are correct and it can be even faster. If the flash is from a Compact CMOS camera with an integrated flash unit it is likely to be a lot longer as the camera will have the same scan issues as the CMOS video camera the flash will be extended just the way it would be for a focal plane shutter sync. A focal plane still camera is close to how the data is read from a CMOS sensor in a video camera. A studio flash unit at max speed may not be noticeable on the CMOS video camera but a bunch of people with Compact cameras set on EASY mode all shooting at the same time will be noticed I think with varying degrees of effect. I don't shoot weddings, except my two daughters weddings. Flash on these showed anywhere between 1/4 to half the frame overexposed. Clearly in the dark the cameras were shooting at 1/60 sec ( all were shooting 60i AVCHD for the last daughters wedding) so flash must have been there for up to half a field. 1/120 sec in the worst case less time for the shorter effect. Simplistically each row of the sensor is read in 0.000016 sec so a 1/1000 sec flash would have the effect of overexposing about 10% of the 1920x1080 image as an over exposed horizontal band. In my daughters wedding case all still camera flashes were from compact cameras or cell phones no fancy high end camera flashes.

Ron Evans

[Steven Digges]

Thanks for the update Ron. I will refrain from stating facts 25 years old when I "studied photography". I should have known better. Does Vivitar 285 mean anything to you. I think there is still one in my bone yard. Best damn flash ever made!

Steve

[Juan A. Diaz]

For anyone considering the Sigma 19mm, B&H currently has a special - the 19mm *and* 30mm for $199, what either one costs normally. Currently out of stock, but if you order, they will ship when in stock. For 50% off, probably worth a short wait!!!

Since neither of the Sigmas are image stabilized, I was wondering if anyone has considered or tried the Sony E-mount 35mm f1.8?

The only non-stabilized lens I own is the Sony E-mount 16mm, and personally, I don't find it usable except on a tripod, so while the Sigma lens deal is tempting, I'm just not sure if I'd get any real use out of it, as most of my work is hand held / run & gun.

Disappointing that the new Sony 20mm f2.8 is not image stabilized, but I guess they are aiming that one at the NEX stills camera owners, what with the pancake format / size and all.

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Steven Digges

... Does Vivitar 285 mean anything to you. ..
Steve

Yes I remember those. Showing my age again my early flash memories are of buying a box of flash bulbs for my cameras !!! My Minolta Maxum 7000 is still in its case. Went to check if it was a Vivitar but the flash is a Minolta Maxum 2800AF. It looks like a have two lenses too. An AF 70-210 and an AF 35-70 . My Sony HX30V is a lot more convenient has a 20x optical zoom and shoots 60p video as well or better than my CX700 and fits in my pocket !!!

Ron Evans

[Douglas Grillo]

Strange, no one has mentioned the E mount 35mm f1.8 with OS, is a nice focal length and with a price between the Zeiss 24mm and the SEL50mm.