Sony nex-ea50 moire and aliasing

Chris Harding · January 9th, 2013, 05:50 PM

Hi Noa

That will be awesome!! Just purely for interest what age are you now? It's actually very interesting as you are talking to people and really get to know them well except you never know if they are in their early 20's or 50's or 60's!! I think Don and I are both around the same age (I'm 66 (rather would be 36 of course!!))

Hope the weather holds out ...I'll be using the 50 along with the Panasonics at an outdoor wedding in our South West so I'll most definately post some footage of that.

Chris

Noa Put · January 9th, 2013, 06:40 PM

Wedding footage from the ea50 would be very interesting indeed and especially your experience with it during such a run and gun situation, I"m approaching 50, I actually was 17 when I started working in the colemines, a very tough environment for a teenager. The mines ruined my back and hearing, not a fun period but a experience that you never forget :)

Chris Harding · January 9th, 2013, 10:33 PM

Thanks Noa

At least I know I'm dealing with a more experience person who still knows what VHS was?? That's great .. I was brought up initially on film cameras and analogue video cameras so understanding basics is easy for me!

I am planning to use one Panny as the main camera at the outdoor ceremony and then use the Sony for cutaways but during lulls I'll also try to replicate what the Panny is shooting ..I think the Sony has proved itself so far with 4 Realty shoots and no issues so I'll use that for prep and reception too then the Panny again for speeches and the Sony for speech cutaways ...as you notice I prefer the Sony a LOT better for handheld stuff!!

Chris

Noa Put · January 10th, 2013, 02:06 AM

Quote:

At least I know I'm dealing with a more experience person who still knows what VHS was?? That's great ..

The tv series I clearly remember we recorded on the very first vhs recorder my dad bought was an episode from Buck Rogers and I remember how we gazed upon the fact that we could pauze the film :)

I think it will be interesting to see how the camera handle highlights and deep shadows in the same image, since you have so hot weather right now that should be quite a challenge with that glaring sun, how is it actually now, I can imagine people at a wedding (and you) having tough times to cope during the day with temperature above 40?

Chris Harding · January 10th, 2013, 05:35 AM

Hi Noa

The weather has settled down again and we are back to the mid 20's again..Saturday will be 32 but the wedding ceremony will be under some huge fig trees so we won't have a massive contrast to deal with.

I have a wedding every weekend for a while so you can sure that one of them will be a real hot one with severe contrast ... Again only the crazy people get married on the beach in Summer ...my next few are in the shade so that won't help... We had pretty bright sun today and suring my property shoot the auto mode went to 1/125th and F16 but the shutter didn't try for any higher...exposure looked good to me!!

Chris

Rod Pike · January 10th, 2013, 08:38 PM

Hi Chris,
best of luck with that. Is the auto focus going to be better for you than your 82's ? I have read here that it is slow. Also, are you hearing the same zoom noise as Noa?

And regarding age I am 67, so round about your neck of the woods. I cut my video teeth on the Sony cv2400 portapak in 1967 as a then young industrial engineer ( Ha!! the recorder weighed over 10 pounds without batteries!!) - half inch reel to reel tape - those were the days-- (acually they weren't- and editing was a nightmare!

Chris Harding · January 10th, 2013, 09:04 PM

Hi Rod

The AF is rock solid on these cameras ..it's a little slow doing Realty shoots when I scan white walls and ceilings in low light but the 82's were the same..can't expect any camera to autofocus fast on a blank white area. I still want to know why you need a camera with a huge zoom range and why it needs to autofocus fast at 23X zoom??? I would be looking at a manual focus there anyway. The Sony focus is overall pretty darn good and IF I needed a huge zoom I can simply get an adapter and put on something like a 800 mm vintage lens ... I could maybe see the reason if you are shooting wildlife from maybe hundreds of metres away but for normal shoots do you really shoot at 23X??

I think you will find that the JVC 650 will also struggle at high zooms with autofocus.

Hmmm you out-age me by merely a year but then again we both really act and feel like we are still in our 30's don't we?

Chris

Steven Digges · January 10th, 2013, 10:05 PM

Low light.....huge zoom power....AF? Surveillance. Just wondering???? Totally rhetorical....

Chris Harding · January 10th, 2013, 10:15 PM

Hi Steve

No, Rod doesn't do that sort of thing..his are mainly promos and commercial work. Sounds like fun though, leaning off the ledge of a high rise building trying to catch the unfaithful hubby in the act....Nope I don't think I would go for that.

Just to fill you in on the technical side, Rod was testing the Panasonic AC-160 indoors using max zoom and shifting pan from one object to another both quite far away and the camera initially was freezing after a few pans so Panasonic did a warranty repair but I still have no idea why Rod needs to do these autofocus at such a long zoom unless he simply feels that the AF should work at any zoom.

Hmmm I can see it now on the door of your office "Steven Digges - P I - Marital video surveillance a speciality"

Chris

Steven Digges · January 10th, 2013, 11:00 PM

Touche.....I deserved that...I am laughing....glad I did not offend with my remark. Video has taken me to a few exciting assignments....peeping or investigations is not one of them.....

Rod Pike · January 11th, 2013, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Hi Rod

I still want to know why you need a camera with a huge zoom range and why it needs to autofocus fast at 23X zoom??? I think you will find that the JVC 650 will also struggle at high zooms with autofocus.

Hmmm you out-age me by merely a year but then again we both really act and feel like we are still in our 30's don't we?

Chris

Heehee! I don't need it. But the fact that it could do it 7 times and fail on 3 just irritated me! I am an engineer and mechanical repeatability is just a thing with me. (especially when all sorts of BS comes my way telling me that I should accept it just doesn't work consistently!) I spent too many years working on six sigma performance projects to take it- In England it is called grumpy old git syndrome!

And yes Chris, on age- I have spent most of my long life trying to grow up but just can't get the hang of it, so stuff it! So, in the words of the song " forever young".

I'm really pleased that you are getting good results with the 50- I am watching this space for you further findings and observations- nothing like real data is there!
Cheers!
Rod

Chris Harding · January 11th, 2013, 06:14 AM

Hey Rod

Well at least Steve and I are relieved that you are not participating in video surveillance with your long range zoom. (I was of course only kidding in my previous posts!)

In the morning I'm heading into our South West for a wedding shoot..the main cam will still be the Panny HMC82 but I'll shoot cutaways and try to emulate the same shots as the HMC is getting in a few clips as well...The Sony is already balanced on my stedicam (to my delight I had to remove half the lower stage weight so the drop time was normal so it should be way easier to fly)

I'll also use the EA-50 for most of the events (except speeches main camera) with the stock lens so that should give everyone a fair idea of performance. You can be assured that I will report everything I feel is worth commenting on (both good and bad)

So far I have no idea what focal length fast prime to use so I'll use the slow zoom at the reception and see what I have got into the habit of shooting with ..I think it will be most wide on the Panny (equiv 41mm) so it will tend to be around a small amount of zoom on the Sony

Chris

Robert Moran · January 16th, 2013, 08:19 PM

Here is a video I did with the 50 and NX 7U. The still was shot using the DZ in conjunction with a 40+ year old 300mm nikkor lens and sturdy tripod. The camera performs without question. One essental. Use the loupe in bright sunlight because accurate focusing is key when using the digital zoom. Peaking & expanded focus are also key.. The system is much bigger then you think. It's a beast but the shots one can get out of this system is remarkable as seen by the work seen on this site.

The DZ, in conjunction with fast primes, is a revelation, something seen in a video shot done for a Guinness world record for door to door caroling whereby much of the shoot was done at night using another ancient Nikkor, this time a 50mm 1.4.

Steven Digges · January 16th, 2013, 10:24 PM

Cool Stuff Robert,

Love the moon shot. It is one of my favorite subjects over the years. So...would that be 300mm x2 (digital zoom) + 1.5 conversion factor?

Curious about why you added it on to this thread?

Steve

Robert Moran · January 17th, 2013, 07:52 AM

The DZ doubled the 300mm to 600mm and, as you correctly stated, the crop is 1.5/6, which makes the field of view equivalent to 450mm w/o DZ and 900mm with. The original is a 16m still down-sampled to 1920 X 1080. I use the pix as a thumbnail for the video and thought it appropriate as I shot the early winter piece right around the time of the full moon. :)

January 9th, 2013, 05:50 PM	#31
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Sony nex-ea50 moire and aliasing Hi Noa That will be awesome!! Just purely for interest what age are you now? It's actually very interesting as you are talking to people and really get to know them well except you never know if they are in their early 20's or 50's or 60's!! I think Don and I are both around the same age (I'm 66 (rather would be 36 of course!!)) Hope the weather holds out ...I'll be using the 50 along with the Panasonics at an outdoor wedding in our South West so I'll most definately post some footage of that. Chris

January 9th, 2013, 06:40 PM	#32
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Sony nex-ea50 moire and aliasing Wedding footage from the ea50 would be very interesting indeed and especially your experience with it during such a run and gun situation, I"m approaching 50, I actually was 17 when I started working in the colemines, a very tough environment for a teenager. The mines ruined my back and hearing, not a fun period but a experience that you never forget :)

January 9th, 2013, 10:33 PM	#33
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Sony nex-ea50 moire and aliasing Thanks Noa At least I know I'm dealing with a more experience person who still knows what VHS was?? That's great .. I was brought up initially on film cameras and analogue video cameras so understanding basics is easy for me! I am planning to use one Panny as the main camera at the outdoor ceremony and then use the Sony for cutaways but during lulls I'll also try to replicate what the Panny is shooting ..I think the Sony has proved itself so far with 4 Realty shoots and no issues so I'll use that for prep and reception too then the Panny again for speeches and the Sony for speech cutaways ...as you notice I prefer the Sony a LOT better for handheld stuff!! Chris

January 10th, 2013, 05:35 AM	#35
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Sony nex-ea50 moire and aliasing Hi Noa The weather has settled down again and we are back to the mid 20's again..Saturday will be 32 but the wedding ceremony will be under some huge fig trees so we won't have a massive contrast to deal with. I have a wedding every weekend for a while so you can sure that one of them will be a real hot one with severe contrast ... Again only the crazy people get married on the beach in Summer ...my next few are in the shade so that won't help... We had pretty bright sun today and suring my property shoot the auto mode went to 1/125th and F16 but the shutter didn't try for any higher...exposure looked good to me!! Chris

January 10th, 2013, 08:38 PM	#36
Rod Pike Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: new zealand Posts: 52	Re: Sony nex-ea50 moire and aliasing Hi Chris, best of luck with that. Is the auto focus going to be better for you than your 82's ? I have read here that it is slow. Also, are you hearing the same zoom noise as Noa? And regarding age I am 67, so round about your neck of the woods. I cut my video teeth on the Sony cv2400 portapak in 1967 as a then young industrial engineer ( Ha!! the recorder weighed over 10 pounds without batteries!!) - half inch reel to reel tape - those were the days-- (acually they weren't- and editing was a nightmare!

January 10th, 2013, 09:04 PM	#37
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Sony nex-ea50 moire and aliasing Hi Rod The AF is rock solid on these cameras ..it's a little slow doing Realty shoots when I scan white walls and ceilings in low light but the 82's were the same..can't expect any camera to autofocus fast on a blank white area. I still want to know why you need a camera with a huge zoom range and why it needs to autofocus fast at 23X zoom??? I would be looking at a manual focus there anyway. The Sony focus is overall pretty darn good and IF I needed a huge zoom I can simply get an adapter and put on something like a 800 mm vintage lens ... I could maybe see the reason if you are shooting wildlife from maybe hundreds of metres away but for normal shoots do you really shoot at 23X?? I think you will find that the JVC 650 will also struggle at high zooms with autofocus. Hmmm you out-age me by merely a year but then again we both really act and feel like we are still in our 30's don't we? Chris

January 10th, 2013, 10:05 PM	#38
Steven Digges Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,828	Re: Sony nex-ea50 moire and aliasing Low light.....huge zoom power....AF? Surveillance. Just wondering???? Totally rhetorical.... __________________ www.CorporateShow.com Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!

January 10th, 2013, 10:15 PM	#39
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Sony nex-ea50 moire and aliasing Hi Steve No, Rod doesn't do that sort of thing..his are mainly promos and commercial work. Sounds like fun though, leaning off the ledge of a high rise building trying to catch the unfaithful hubby in the act....Nope I don't think I would go for that. Just to fill you in on the technical side, Rod was testing the Panasonic AC-160 indoors using max zoom and shifting pan from one object to another both quite far away and the camera initially was freezing after a few pans so Panasonic did a warranty repair but I still have no idea why Rod needs to do these autofocus at such a long zoom unless he simply feels that the AF should work at any zoom. Hmmm I can see it now on the door of your office "Steven Digges - P I - Marital video surveillance a speciality" Chris

January 10th, 2013, 11:00 PM	#40
Steven Digges Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,828	Re: Sony nex-ea50 moire and aliasing Touche.....I deserved that...I am laughing....glad I did not offend with my remark. Video has taken me to a few exciting assignments....peeping or investigations is not one of them..... __________________ www.CorporateShow.com Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!

January 11th, 2013, 06:14 AM	#42
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Sony nex-ea50 moire and aliasing Hey Rod Well at least Steve and I are relieved that you are not participating in video surveillance with your long range zoom. (I was of course only kidding in my previous posts!) In the morning I'm heading into our South West for a wedding shoot..the main cam will still be the Panny HMC82 but I'll shoot cutaways and try to emulate the same shots as the HMC is getting in a few clips as well...The Sony is already balanced on my stedicam (to my delight I had to remove half the lower stage weight so the drop time was normal so it should be way easier to fly) I'll also use the EA-50 for most of the events (except speeches main camera) with the stock lens so that should give everyone a fair idea of performance. You can be assured that I will report everything I feel is worth commenting on (both good and bad) So far I have no idea what focal length fast prime to use so I'll use the slow zoom at the reception and see what I have got into the habit of shooting with ..I think it will be most wide on the Panny (equiv 41mm) so it will tend to be around a small amount of zoom on the Sony Chris

January 16th, 2013, 08:19 PM	#43
Robert Moran Regular Crew Join Date: May 2011 Location: Redding, CT Posts: 71	Re: Sony nex-ea50 moire and aliasing A quick glimpse into Early Winter in CT on Vimeo Here is a video I did with the 50 and NX 7U. The still was shot using the DZ in conjunction with a 40+ year old 300mm nikkor lens and sturdy tripod. The camera performs without question. One essental. Use the loupe in bright sunlight because accurate focusing is key when using the digital zoom. Peaking & expanded focus are also key.. The system is much bigger then you think. It's a beast but the shots one can get out of this system is remarkable as seen by the work seen on this site. The DZ, in conjunction with fast primes, is a revelation, something seen in a video shot done for a Guinness world record for door to door caroling whereby much of the shoot was done at night using another ancient Nikkor, this time a 50mm 1.4. 12/12/12 - Carols on Vimeo

January 16th, 2013, 10:24 PM	#44
Steven Digges Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,828	Re: Sony nex-ea50 moire and aliasing Cool Stuff Robert, Love the moon shot. It is one of my favorite subjects over the years. So...would that be 300mm x2 (digital zoom) + 1.5 conversion factor? Curious about why you added it on to this thread? Steve __________________ www.CorporateShow.com Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!

January 17th, 2013, 07:52 AM	#45
Robert Moran Regular Crew Join Date: May 2011 Location: Redding, CT Posts: 71	Re: Sony nex-ea50 moire and aliasing The DZ doubled the 300mm to 600mm and, as you correctly stated, the crop is 1.5/6, which makes the field of view equivalent to 450mm w/o DZ and 900mm with. The original is a 16m still down-sampled to 1920 X 1080. I use the pix as a thumbnail for the video and thought it appropriate as I shot the early winter piece right around the time of the full moon. :)