Sony Z7: CF + Firestore? at DVinfo.net

Colm Heffernan · November 30th, 2009, 12:14 PM

Hi All,

I'm looking at a Z7 over the ES1 as an upgrade to my PD150s due to the interchangeable lens option. I was wondering is it possible to record to the CF cards and a Firestore FS5 simulatneously or is the firewire connection out of action when the CF recording unit is in place. It would be great to have a tapeless workflow, however i don't think i would go with either CF or firestore on their own. Definately need a second backup source.

Cheers
Colm

Matt Bigwood · November 30th, 2009, 01:42 PM

Hi Colm

When the CF recording unit is in place it is physically impossible to open the flap for the Firewire port, so it is not possible to use the two simultaneously.

Matt

Colm Heffernan · December 1st, 2009, 03:46 AM

Thanks Matt. That leaves me with 2 choices.

1 - Go with the ES1 and use the SxS cards along with the FS5. Loose out on interchangable lens option :(

2 - Sell on the FS5 and go with the Z7 and use both tape and CF backup. How reliable are the CF cards. Any issues with these?

Matt Bigwood · December 1st, 2009, 03:11 PM

Hi Colm

In my experience the reliability of the CF cards depends upon the write speed of the card itself.

I've got four cards and only had a problem with one, a 'budget' Kingston 133x write speed 32GB card... the 16GB Sandisk card I own is a faster write speed (200x I think) and I've never had a problem. It also writes to the computer's hard drive faster.

Matt

Luc De Wandel · December 2nd, 2009, 06:03 AM

I have a Z7 and a S270 and I use inexpensive Transcend 133x cards in both. Never had a problem. And if you should have one, there's always the very affordable tape backup.

These two camera's are the only hybrid ones that offer this kind of security.

Zach Love · December 3rd, 2009, 10:34 AM

ES1? Or do you mean the EX1?

If you mean the EX1, what you'll be getting is rull raster 1080x1920 HD video at a higher codec which means you'll see a lot less compression & with the 1/2" chips, you'll have better video in lower light & nicer colors.

The down side, is you have to work out a solid back up system when you are recording only to flash media.

Why I love my Z7, is because HDV looks amazing for the price & workflow. No other camera can offer 60min of HD video on professional grade media for $3-$5.

MiniDV tapes are NOT indestructible, but I've been using the Panasonic professional series & haven't had a drop out since I started using them over 2 years ago.

CF cards are VERY reliable. I had some bad experiences where a clip or two wouldn't transfer w/ a 16GB Transcend 133x card, replaced it, reformat every time before I record, and now I don't have any problems.

(Even still, the "Bad" clips I had, were just ones that FCP didn't want to pull in. I could have used any number of software applications to go from the .m2t to .mov & edited away. But it ended up just being easier to capture those shots right off the tape & be done w/ it.)

I would suggest getting faster cards (they're pretty cheap, so why not), b/c I can notice the time saved when using 300x cards in log & transfer.

Even w/ the few troubles I've had w/ the CF card recorder, I will swear by it over a FireStore any day. Yes, the FS have a LOT more options & can record in different formats, but I have had lots of trouble w/ FS DTE devices, and prefer the CF recorder a LOT more.

Really you need to figure out what the best workflow for you is. If tape & tapless meets your needs, then go with that. I love my Z7 & highly recommend it.

Still, EX1 & EX3 have gotten great reviews. And Panasonic's HPX300 has had some great rebates, plus it can record in intra-frame 720p at smaller file sizes than DV / HDV, which can bring P2 into the affordable range for some.

Colm Heffernan · December 3rd, 2009, 11:43 AM

Zach, thanks for the advice. My head is melted...EX1 or Z7? I have nighmares about this. If i go for the EX1 then for and extra 1200 bucks or so i can go with the EX3! but then including cards etc for the price of the EX3 i could neary buy 2 Z7s. I wouldn't get a way with 2 PD150s for the next ten years would i :) ha...ha. Lets just see what Santy brings me. I'll leave it up to him.

Colm

Luc De Wandel · December 3rd, 2009, 12:46 PM

Hi Colm,
It all depends on what you want to do with your camera's. If you have to deliver footage to tv-stations, then you'll have to buy an EX1 or EX3 as these camera's have the specs that most broadcasting companies see as a minimum standard. On the other hand, if youre not going to make movies for tv-distribution, then Sony's Z7 and S270 are perfect and very reliable. The image they deliver is stunning. I have both but I prefer the S270 for it's form factor: still nothing better than a shouldermounted cam! Holding the Z7 -or any comparable camera, like the EX1- up in your hand is a pain after 10 minutes.

There is a good deal for a secondhand S270 in the classifieds of this forum. Camera is as new and it has all the advantages of a professional camera.

November 30th, 2009, 12:14 PM	#1
Colm Heffernan New Boot Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Ireland Posts: 8	Sony Z7: CF + Firestore? Hi All, I'm looking at a Z7 over the ES1 as an upgrade to my PD150s due to the interchangeable lens option. I was wondering is it possible to record to the CF cards and a Firestore FS5 simulatneously or is the firewire connection out of action when the CF recording unit is in place. It would be great to have a tapeless workflow, however i don't think i would go with either CF or firestore on their own. Definately need a second backup source. Cheers Colm

December 3rd, 2009, 10:34 AM	#6
Zach Love Major Player Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 944	ES1? Or do you mean the EX1? If you mean the EX1, what you'll be getting is rull raster 1080x1920 HD video at a higher codec which means you'll see a lot less compression & with the 1/2" chips, you'll have better video in lower light & nicer colors. The down side, is you have to work out a solid back up system when you are recording only to flash media. Why I love my Z7, is because HDV looks amazing for the price & workflow. No other camera can offer 60min of HD video on professional grade media for $3-$5. MiniDV tapes are NOT indestructible, but I've been using the Panasonic professional series & haven't had a drop out since I started using them over 2 years ago. CF cards are VERY reliable. I had some bad experiences where a clip or two wouldn't transfer w/ a 16GB Transcend 133x card, replaced it, reformat every time before I record, and now I don't have any problems. (Even still, the "Bad" clips I had, were just ones that FCP didn't want to pull in. I could have used any number of software applications to go from the .m2t to .mov & edited away. But it ended up just being easier to capture those shots right off the tape & be done w/ it.) I would suggest getting faster cards (they're pretty cheap, so why not), b/c I can notice the time saved when using 300x cards in log & transfer. Even w/ the few troubles I've had w/ the CF card recorder, I will swear by it over a FireStore any day. Yes, the FS have a LOT more options & can record in different formats, but I have had lots of trouble w/ FS DTE devices, and prefer the CF recorder a LOT more. Really you need to figure out what the best workflow for you is. If tape & tapless meets your needs, then go with that. I love my Z7 & highly recommend it. Still, EX1 & EX3 have gotten great reviews. And Panasonic's HPX300 has had some great rebates, plus it can record in intra-frame 720p at smaller file sizes than DV / HDV, which can bring P2 into the affordable range for some. __________________ Nothing says you're a serious video maker like S-VHS

November 30th, 2009, 01:42 PM	#2
Matt Bigwood Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Gloucester UK Posts: 223	Hi Colm When the CF recording unit is in place it is physically impossible to open the flap for the Firewire port, so it is not possible to use the two simultaneously. Matt

December 1st, 2009, 03:46 AM	#3
Colm Heffernan New Boot Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Ireland Posts: 8	Thanks Matt. That leaves me with 2 choices. 1 - Go with the ES1 and use the SxS cards along with the FS5. Loose out on interchangable lens option :( 2 - Sell on the FS5 and go with the Z7 and use both tape and CF backup. How reliable are the CF cards. Any issues with these?

December 1st, 2009, 03:11 PM	#4
Matt Bigwood Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Gloucester UK Posts: 223	Hi Colm In my experience the reliability of the CF cards depends upon the write speed of the card itself. I've got four cards and only had a problem with one, a 'budget' Kingston 133x write speed 32GB card... the 16GB Sandisk card I own is a faster write speed (200x I think) and I've never had a problem. It also writes to the computer's hard drive faster. Matt

December 2nd, 2009, 06:03 AM	#5
Luc De Wandel Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Knokke-Heist, Belgium Posts: 963	I have a Z7 and a S270 and I use inexpensive Transcend 133x cards in both. Never had a problem. And if you should have one, there's always the very affordable tape backup. These two camera's are the only hybrid ones that offer this kind of security.

December 3rd, 2009, 11:43 AM	#7
Colm Heffernan New Boot Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Ireland Posts: 8	Zach, thanks for the advice. My head is melted...EX1 or Z7? I have nighmares about this. If i go for the EX1 then for and extra 1200 bucks or so i can go with the EX3! but then including cards etc for the price of the EX3 i could neary buy 2 Z7s. I wouldn't get a way with 2 PD150s for the next ten years would i :) ha...ha. Lets just see what Santy brings me. I'll leave it up to him. Colm

December 3rd, 2009, 12:46 PM	#8
Luc De Wandel Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Knokke-Heist, Belgium Posts: 963	Hi Colm, It all depends on what you want to do with your camera's. If you have to deliver footage to tv-stations, then you'll have to buy an EX1 or EX3 as these camera's have the specs that most broadcasting companies see as a minimum standard. On the other hand, if youre not going to make movies for tv-distribution, then Sony's Z7 and S270 are perfect and very reliable. The image they deliver is stunning. I have both but I prefer the S270 for it's form factor: still nothing better than a shouldermounted cam! Holding the Z7 -or any comparable camera, like the EX1- up in your hand is a pain after 10 minutes. There is a good deal for a secondhand S270 in the classifieds of this forum. Camera is as new and it has all the advantages of a professional camera.