IRE Setting Z7U at DVinfo.net

Rodger Smith · September 14th, 2008, 08:02 PM

Geez, anyone know where the IRE setting is on the Sony Z7U? I swear I've been through every screen on it and I cannot find where to set 7.5% for our broadcast set up :o(

Rodger Smith · September 15th, 2008, 01:16 PM

Is everyone like me . . they can't find it either? That is, it isn't labeled anything that sounds even remotely like the 7.5% control to get NTSC broadcast blacks?

Adam Gold · September 15th, 2008, 02:18 PM

This probably isn't it, but the closest thing I can find to that in the manual is in the section about setting Picture Profiles; BLACK LEVEL is one of the parameters, but it isn't expressed in IRE levels or percentages.

Searches for "IRE," "7.5%" and "NTSC" turn up nothing. Same in the promo literature.

Pages 33-36.

Rodger Smith · September 15th, 2008, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Gold

This probably isn't it, but the closest thing I can find to that in the manual is in the section about setting Picture Profiles; BLACK LEVEL is one of the parameters, but it isn't expressed in IRE levels or percentages.

Searches for "IRE," "7.5%" and "NTSC" turn up nothing. Same in the promo literature.

Pages 33-36.

Hmmmm. Is this weird or what? My Panasonic cams all have a "set up" option for 0 or 7.5% the latter of course giving me the trigger value for broadcast.

I have two reasons for this solve of course the one being the obvious, the client we produce for their broadcasters will complain and secondly we are having some difficultly multicamming the z7 DV material with the Panasonic DV cameras and wondering if this IRE might be the trigger that's messing us up, let alone the former is far more important than the latter since we have a "fuse" option to resolve the latter.

Thoughts?

Chris Barcellos · September 15th, 2008, 02:49 PM

Perhaps it would help to be more specific about what you are trying to do. At the risk of appearing "dense" compared to what sounds like prior TV production experience, having been involved with Sony's earlier HDV cameras (z1 and FX1), and having followed the newer HD offerings, it sounds to me like you are searching for a feature not available on this level of Sony camera. Sounds to me like you are trying to set camera up to avoid clipping on the high side, or loss of shadow detail on the low side. On the Sony FX1, in order to avoid blowouts we set our zebras at 90%, and try to keep everything out of zebras, or right on the edge. The Z1 does have black stretch on the other end. My reading on the Z7U does not indicate anything new in that area, but will admit my reading may be a bit behind.

There is a histogram feature available on the camera to help with adjustments:

Digital HD Video Camera Recorder - HVR-Z7U/HVR-S270U

Rodger Smith · September 15th, 2008, 03:05 PM

Our NTSC broadcasters require us to provide media that is set to the IRE levels used in the broadcast gear and although I don't know the ins and outs of the whole spec what works and is normally available in most cameras is a way to set the blacks to their NTSC black level which happens to be 7.5% (whatever that means) and on the Panasonic DVX100B and the HVX200A (which our Sony Z7U's are replacing) this feature is called "Set UP" under the CAMERA SETUP > SET UP and again the options are 0% (meaning solid black) or 7.5% (a slightly less strong black) the latter of which at the very least reduces the power of shadows (which they of course hate) and not having the ability to control this will result in complaints from those viewers who critique everything and of course the broadcasters ENG group who control the "appoved for" and "not appoved for" broadcast.

Hope this helps if not I can call one of the locals who broadcast one of the shows and get the details from them.

Chris Barcellos · September 16th, 2008, 11:35 AM

I assume you are not broadcasting live ??? Isn't it possible to make this adjustments in edit by shooting to preserve detail in the whites, and adjusting levels in post ?

I am curious to find out what you ultimately find out. Please keep us posted.

Rodger Smith · September 16th, 2008, 02:47 PM

Ok; will do. I was hoping I wouldn't have to call the ENG guys, it's always a hassle because they always open up new unexposed avenues and doors. It's a thing with those guys. I think they sit at panels and stare at sceens all day and when the phone rings, they say, "awww, we have a winner," and then pass the call from ENG to ENG and back again making one wished they'd never called to begin with . . and . . they always word every solution as a question like as in "you don't know what ur doing, but we do know what we're doing and we aren't going to tell you." :o) like i asked them, "can we deliver this show in DVD." they said, "why would you want to do that?" i said, "so then you can't?" they said, "sure we can, but why?" who cares right? Or if there is a negative why not just tell me instead of chasing me around the corner to say "sure" in the end anyways?

September 14th, 2008, 08:02 PM	#1
Rodger Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Portsmouth, OH Posts: 118	IRE Setting Z7U Geez, anyone know where the IRE setting is on the Sony Z7U? I swear I've been through every screen on it and I cannot find where to set 7.5% for our broadcast set up :o(

September 15th, 2008, 02:49 PM	#5
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Perhaps it would help to be more specific about what you are trying to do. At the risk of appearing "dense" compared to what sounds like prior TV production experience, having been involved with Sony's earlier HDV cameras (z1 and FX1), and having followed the newer HD offerings, it sounds to me like you are searching for a feature not available on this level of Sony camera. Sounds to me like you are trying to set camera up to avoid clipping on the high side, or loss of shadow detail on the low side. On the Sony FX1, in order to avoid blowouts we set our zebras at 90%, and try to keep everything out of zebras, or right on the edge. The Z1 does have black stretch on the other end. My reading on the Z7U does not indicate anything new in that area, but will admit my reading may be a bit behind. There is a histogram feature available on the camera to help with adjustments: Digital HD Video Camera Recorder - HVR-Z7U/HVR-S270U __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

September 16th, 2008, 11:35 AM	#7
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	I assume you are not broadcasting live ??? Isn't it possible to make this adjustments in edit by shooting to preserve detail in the whites, and adjusting levels in post ? I am curious to find out what you ultimately find out. Please keep us posted. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

September 15th, 2008, 01:16 PM	#2
Rodger Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Portsmouth, OH Posts: 118	Is everyone like me . . they can't find it either? That is, it isn't labeled anything that sounds even remotely like the 7.5% control to get NTSC broadcast blacks?

September 15th, 2008, 02:18 PM	#3
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	This probably isn't it, but the closest thing I can find to that in the manual is in the section about setting Picture Profiles; BLACK LEVEL is one of the parameters, but it isn't expressed in IRE levels or percentages. Searches for "IRE," "7.5%" and "NTSC" turn up nothing. Same in the promo literature. Pages 33-36.

September 15th, 2008, 03:05 PM	#6
Rodger Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Portsmouth, OH Posts: 118	Our NTSC broadcasters require us to provide media that is set to the IRE levels used in the broadcast gear and although I don't know the ins and outs of the whole spec what works and is normally available in most cameras is a way to set the blacks to their NTSC black level which happens to be 7.5% (whatever that means) and on the Panasonic DVX100B and the HVX200A (which our Sony Z7U's are replacing) this feature is called "Set UP" under the CAMERA SETUP > SET UP and again the options are 0% (meaning solid black) or 7.5% (a slightly less strong black) the latter of which at the very least reduces the power of shadows (which they of course hate) and not having the ability to control this will result in complaints from those viewers who critique everything and of course the broadcasters ENG group who control the "appoved for" and "not appoved for" broadcast. Hope this helps if not I can call one of the locals who broadcast one of the shows and get the details from them.

September 16th, 2008, 02:47 PM	#8
Rodger Smith Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Portsmouth, OH Posts: 118	Ok; will do. I was hoping I wouldn't have to call the ENG guys, it's always a hassle because they always open up new unexposed avenues and doors. It's a thing with those guys. I think they sit at panels and stare at sceens all day and when the phone rings, they say, "awww, we have a winner," and then pass the call from ENG to ENG and back again making one wished they'd never called to begin with . . and . . they always word every solution as a question like as in "you don't know what ur doing, but we do know what we're doing and we aren't going to tell you." :o) like i asked them, "can we deliver this show in DVD." they said, "why would you want to do that?" i said, "so then you can't?" they said, "sure we can, but why?" who cares right? Or if there is a negative why not just tell me instead of chasing me around the corner to say "sure" in the end anyways?