HVR-S270 as an everyday news camera?

David Cleverly · September 19th, 2008, 01:12 AM

Ok, FINALLY I have used the S270 for a day. Finally. I know it is built to a budget, but I think it could have easily been better. If it had been, my thoughts are it would have been a killer camera for news.

My opinion:

It is a great camera package in theory but in practice, it is painful to use coming from a DSR-570.

Focus/iris control way too fiddly and confusing to be a true professional camera. The lens would have to go. I kept thinking I was controlling the iris manually but then the iris would change by itself.

Overall feel, while looking like a 450 or 570, is like a toy. The casing is too black (makes it look cheap) and the feel of the switches and controls is cheap. I guess this comes from being used to a heavier metal body as opposed to the plastic body of the 270.

Pictures in DVCAM mode far inferior to the DSR-570, which is understandable considering the smaller chip size in the 270 although I thought technology might have made it at least almost as good.

...and what a shame the Sony WRR wireless mic setups don't work with the V-mount on the 270.

Shame also that the CF recorder (one of the main things that drew my attention to the 270) only records in RAW DV or AVI mode. To me this means every file loaded into Final Cut has to be rendered before being edited or compressed. It should be able to record Quicktime files as well.

The lens size and viewfinder even looks wrong.

But: I like the LCD on top of the VF, especially for when walking backwards in a media scrum situation...allows you to see what you are shooting clearly, but allowing your peripheral vision to come into play as you can see to both sides and in front of you.

I like the image stabilisation, too.

But I am going to give it a workout over the weekend and see if I can get a better feel for it.

Greg Laves · September 19th, 2008, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hayes

do a search about rolling shutter and police lights.

I have a Sony V1 and I heard all of the horror stories about police strobes and the "dreaded rolling shutter effect". So I have a friend who is in the fire department and one night I wandered over to the station and got her to crank up the strobes outside. I must have done something wrong because I was able to record the strobes without any weird artifacts at all. Of course, the V1 could be different than the S270.

Barry Wilkinson · September 20th, 2008, 07:38 AM

I have done this change of cameras but have just returned off holiday so will report when my brain gets in to gear!

Greg Boston · September 20th, 2008, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Cleverly

Overall feel, while looking like a 450 or 570, is like a toy. The casing is too black (makes it look cheap) and the feel of the switches and controls is cheap. I guess this comes from being used to a heavier metal body as opposed to the plastic body of the 270.

That's what I meant in my post above. I don't think it would stand up to the rigors of daily ENG use.

As for FCP, I have brought AVI files directly info FCP. You'll get a warning about them not being optimized but they still work. This was actually a few years ago before FCS came out. I haven't tried any AVI files recently.

In HDV mode, you can attach the CF unit and open FCP's Log and Transfer to bring in the clips. I know this works because I demo'd it at WEVA last month.

-gb-

Nick Stone · September 20th, 2008, 03:42 PM

Hi David,

Have you looked at the JVC range of cameras?
Nick

David Cleverly · September 23rd, 2008, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Stone

Hi David,

Have you looked at the JVC range of cameras?
Nick

Yes...not too sure about them.

Nick Stone · September 23rd, 2008, 03:53 PM

David,

What about the DSR-450WSP. It's not HD but one great SD 2/3" type PowerHAD EX 3CCDs tape based camera. I dont know how much though.

Nick

Aaron Lucas · September 23rd, 2008, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Stone

David,

What about the DSR-450WSP. It's not HD but one great SD 2/3" type PowerHAD EX 3CCDs tape based camera. I dont know how much though.

Nick

SRP for a DSR450WSPL is $19,250.00 ex GST

interestingly, SRP for a PDWF335L is only $17,900 ex GST.

Either way, both seem to be out of the price range of the OP for what he is trying to achieve.

Nick Stone · September 24th, 2008, 01:35 AM

Those prices are steep but then again that’s what ya gotta pay.
I think the s270 would be suitable, I know it's not 2/3" or 1/2" chips but for the price and what it can do. I wonder how the lens is for SD and also the down convert from HD to SD?
Seems the s270 can handle low light and recording to tape and card is a real bonus.
This camera is very quiet, what I mean is there is not much to read about. Either the community have bypassed this camera or it's great and no one has any hassles with it. Could it be a winner?

Nick

David Cleverly · September 26th, 2008, 06:57 AM

I have a feeling I might have had some settings wrong when trying the 270.

When I watch the vision back on a monitor in the edit suite tonight, the pictures are kind of strobeing with some kind of shimmer effect to them.

I was sure I had it on 25p in DVCAM mode, but it certainly has a shutter effect to it.

Maybe I didn't give it a fair trial, but I guess it still has the dicky viewfinder...

So here is the possible option since insurance will not cover me for a new lens:

Buy the 270. Use the extra money we save from buying this camera to have our 2/3" fujinon lens repaired, but while it is being repaired, use the stock lens. Once our lens is repaired, put it on the 270 with an adaptor. Won't be as wide as it normally is (6.3), but at least the 270 will have a nice lens on it and the control will be there.

Could someone tell me what I will lose from my normal lens by putting it on a 1/3 camera with an adaptor?

Cheers,

DC

David Heath · September 26th, 2008, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Cleverly

Could someone tell me what I will lose from my normal lens by putting it on a 1/3 camera with an adaptor?

I wouldn't do that. Technically, no problem, and may be positively desirable if you're doing something like wildlife where you want telephoto power rather than wide angle.

A 6.3mm focal length lens used with a 1/3" chip camera will be equivalent in angle of view terms to a 12.6mm lens on a 2/3" camera. I think most people would consider that nowhere near a wide enough angle for general use.

Does the 270 not come with a basic lens? I think that may actually be better than trying to use the 6.3mm lens with it.

Ivan Snoeckx · September 26th, 2008, 08:01 AM

David is right. The focal lenght from your 2/3" lens is going to be doubled when putting it on a 1/3" camera. To me this is certainly not wide enough for shooting everyday news.

David Cleverly · September 26th, 2008, 08:11 AM

Ok, I understand. 12.6 not good.

David Cleverly · September 26th, 2008, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Heath

Does the 270 not come with a basic lens? I think that may actually be better than trying to use the 6.3mm lens with it.

Yes it does, but it's pretty ordinary.

Mind you, I think I shot everything incorrectly as all the vision looks jittery.

Greg Laves · September 26th, 2008, 04:35 PM

David, You can probably check your camera settings by reviewing the data code information on the recorded tape. That way, you might be able to spot any settings that don't seem right. I don't have the S270 but I would expect that it has similar features to the rest of the family. Also, did you have steadyshot on? If you did, what mode? Some settings in steadyshot can cause some problems also.

September 19th, 2008, 01:12 AM	#16
David Cleverly Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sydney NSW Posts: 220	Ok, FINALLY I have used the S270 for a day. Finally. I know it is built to a budget, but I think it could have easily been better. If it had been, my thoughts are it would have been a killer camera for news. My opinion: It is a great camera package in theory but in practice, it is painful to use coming from a DSR-570. Focus/iris control way too fiddly and confusing to be a true professional camera. The lens would have to go. I kept thinking I was controlling the iris manually but then the iris would change by itself. Overall feel, while looking like a 450 or 570, is like a toy. The casing is too black (makes it look cheap) and the feel of the switches and controls is cheap. I guess this comes from being used to a heavier metal body as opposed to the plastic body of the 270. Pictures in DVCAM mode far inferior to the DSR-570, which is understandable considering the smaller chip size in the 270 although I thought technology might have made it at least almost as good. ...and what a shame the Sony WRR wireless mic setups don't work with the V-mount on the 270. Shame also that the CF recorder (one of the main things that drew my attention to the 270) only records in RAW DV or AVI mode. To me this means every file loaded into Final Cut has to be rendered before being edited or compressed. It should be able to record Quicktime files as well. The lens size and viewfinder even looks wrong. But: I like the LCD on top of the VF, especially for when walking backwards in a media scrum situation...allows you to see what you are shooting clearly, but allowing your peripheral vision to come into play as you can see to both sides and in front of you. I like the image stabilisation, too. But I am going to give it a workout over the weekend and see if I can get a better feel for it. Last edited by David Cleverly; September 19th, 2008 at 01:43 AM.

September 20th, 2008, 07:38 AM	#18
Barry Wilkinson Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grange over Sands UK Posts: 99	On holiday I have done this change of cameras but have just returned off holiday so will report when my brain gets in to gear! __________________ Cameraman BBC and ITV since 1966

September 20th, 2008, 03:42 PM	#20
Nick Stone Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 133	Hi David, Have you looked at the JVC range of cameras? Nick

September 23rd, 2008, 03:53 PM	#22
Nick Stone Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 133	David, What about the DSR-450WSP. It's not HD but one great SD 2/3" type PowerHAD EX 3CCDs tape based camera. I dont know how much though. Nick

September 24th, 2008, 01:35 AM	#24
Nick Stone Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 133	Those prices are steep but then again that’s what ya gotta pay. I think the s270 would be suitable, I know it's not 2/3" or 1/2" chips but for the price and what it can do. I wonder how the lens is for SD and also the down convert from HD to SD? Seems the s270 can handle low light and recording to tape and card is a real bonus. This camera is very quiet, what I mean is there is not much to read about. Either the community have bypassed this camera or it's great and no one has any hassles with it. Could it be a winner? Nick

September 26th, 2008, 06:57 AM	#25
David Cleverly Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sydney NSW Posts: 220	I have a feeling I might have had some settings wrong when trying the 270. When I watch the vision back on a monitor in the edit suite tonight, the pictures are kind of strobeing with some kind of shimmer effect to them. I was sure I had it on 25p in DVCAM mode, but it certainly has a shutter effect to it. Maybe I didn't give it a fair trial, but I guess it still has the dicky viewfinder... So here is the possible option since insurance will not cover me for a new lens: Buy the 270. Use the extra money we save from buying this camera to have our 2/3" fujinon lens repaired, but while it is being repaired, use the stock lens. Once our lens is repaired, put it on the 270 with an adaptor. Won't be as wide as it normally is (6.3), but at least the 270 will have a nice lens on it and the control will be there. Could someone tell me what I will lose from my normal lens by putting it on a 1/3 camera with an adaptor? Cheers, DC

September 26th, 2008, 08:01 AM	#27
Ivan Snoeckx Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Belgium \| Europe Posts: 441	David is right. The focal lenght from your 2/3" lens is going to be doubled when putting it on a 1/3" camera. To me this is certainly not wide enough for shooting everyday news.

September 26th, 2008, 08:11 AM	#28
David Cleverly Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sydney NSW Posts: 220	Ok, I understand. 12.6 not good.

September 26th, 2008, 04:35 PM	#30
Greg Laves Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 640	David, You can probably check your camera settings by reviewing the data code information on the recorded tape. That way, you might be able to spot any settings that don't seem right. I don't have the S270 but I would expect that it has similar features to the rest of the family. Also, did you have steadyshot on? If you did, what mode? Some settings in steadyshot can cause some problems also.