Thinking of upgrading to a HVRS270P?

[Simon Denny]

Currently using a Sony Z1 but long gigs as a handheld comes complete with the shakes.
I would like a Shoulder mount and was thinking about the HVRS270P as an option.
There seems to be nothing on this fourm about this camera (very little).
Has this been bypassed in favour of the EX1,3 series, I know they aren't shoulder mounts.

Simon

[Steve Phillipps]

I think they were bypassed in favour of the almost identical Z7. Not shoulder mounted, but small is good for a lot of people. It's also a lot cheaper. I'm sure the 270 is an excellent camera, as feedback on quality of Z7 has been very good.
Steve

[Simon Denny]

Thanks Steve,
Looking further at the 270 seems to be the Z1 but with the 3 ClearVid CMOS Sensor and shouldermount, oh and interchangeable lenses.

Anyone using this Camera? as I would like to hear some feedback from users.

Simon

[Barry Wilkinson]

Yes I use the 270 and there are several posts on its advantages and disadvantages if you use the search. For me it was the only choice if you want a proper shoulder mounted , large format tape (up to 4 hours recording) DVcam compatible , interchangeable lens camcorder. It also has a chip recording facility which clips on the side, very good battery life compared with the DSR570/450 and is two thirds the size and weight of those cameras. It is more sensitive to light than a Z1 and is much much easier to operate and is less tiring on the arms off the tripod. There is a very limited range of 1/3 inch lenses to switch to by Fujinon and they cost nearly as much as the camera. Any specific questions?

[Steve Phillipps]

Simon, I think you'd find it quite different to a Z1. Biggest difference to my mind would be that the lens has proper focus, zoom and iris controls, just like a pro camera, rather than the horrible servo crappy things on previous prosumer units. Also the optical qualiuty of the lens on the Z1 wasn't that highly rated. And then of course the whole shoulder-mounted thing which for some people is a must-have. Oh and CF recording option is a big step forward too.
Steve

[Simon Denny]

Thanks guys,
I guess the two major things I'm looking at are, image quality and is this a good buy, or is there something better out there in a shouldermount?

Simon

[Steve Phillipps]

Closest in price HD wise would be the XDCam Sony F330 I'd think. Full size, pro camera. 1/2" chips, disc workflow is excellent. The Z7 etc. are 1/3" chips and HDV compression (ie a lot!), XDCam has better compression scheme and bigger chips.
Steve

[Barry Wilkinson]

I looked at the disc "Blu Ray" based cameras but had to dismiss them for several reasons. I work a lot with another guy and we are all on HDV now( he has a Z1 and I have an AE1 ). If I had bought the disc camera we would have had to buy two lots of play in equipment (ok I know you could play in via the camera) and have cameras on different recording media. The disc based camera has a better black and white viewfinder (which I miss) but was considerably more expensive and came without a lens. If Sony had made an HDV shoulder mounted camera like the 330 ,and with larger chips than my 270 ,and without a lens ,and a better viewfinder(eyepiece) I would have bought that instead ..but they dont because they wouldnt be able to sell the disc cameras.
I think in the long run all cameras will record to chips but I dont think the systems are mature enough yet and the chips are really expensive compared with tape. My view is that if you can afford to drop media in a river and not worry about the cost too much then it is a good system. I also dont trust chips and particularly hard drives as a library format. I think tape has a few years left still. And of course the 270 takes chips too!

[Steve Phillipps]

Thing is though Barry, everything goes into computer hard drives for editing nowadays, so as long as you have a file based system like the XDCam or P2 then you can just drg it onto drives from the camera. Your Z1 hdv footage will be put onto drives for edit too, so both systems will be on drives in the end.
Steve

[Simon Denny]

Steve,
The XDCam Sony F330 is twice the price as the 270 so thats outa the question right now but it is a nice camera.
Barry Is there the rolling shutter problem with the 270? and how is the image quality compared to the Z1?
I have read your post on the 270 by the way.

The Z1 loaded up becomes so heavy to use as a handheld for even just a couple minutes and most of my gigs are heading this way, it's very hard to use legs when the talent is always moving. So the 270 seems to be the logical step I think?

Simon

[Barry Wilkinson]

Hi Simon,
I have to say that operationally I hate the Z1 and others of similar design. They are designed to break your wrists over long use especially if you start hanging extra bits like hard drives and fancy lens hoods on them. Being used to full sized shoulder mounted cameras in my previous life as a broadcast cameraman and knowing in the dark where the switches are, and being able to transfer from camera to camera without having to think which camera I am operating, I find the design of the hand held camcorders lacking. There are so many buttons to touch accidentally which show a picture on the lcd and then unless you have a pictorial mega memory you have to refer to the manual to see what has changed. I admit that my job as a news cameraman meant that you had to think , shoot ,and edit quickly so any delays fiddling around with menus became annoying. I have shot on u-matic, beta, beta sp, beta sx and dvcam cameras and all the later cameras had similar switch layouts with menus coming in on the later cameras. Some of the menu variables have dubious use for the average cameraman as most adjustments can now be made in editing. You need to concentrate on focus , exposure ,framing and economy of shooting. No news tape editor wants to plow through two hours of material to find good material for a 5 minute item( with an hour left before the item goes to air) so especially if I was editing myself I would shoot to edit, hoping that my experience wouldnt leave me without that vital shot needed to complete the item. I admit that longer projects such as maybe a wedding mean you have to shoot loads more footage but I still think economy of shooting is a skill worth learning.
What was the question again? Sorry I went off at a tangent there!
We shot a wedding for a friend with my 270, my friends Z1 and my trusty AE1 as a wide shot safety camera in case both other cameras were moving and my colleague is editing that in HD at the moment. On the edit suite he reports that the cameras match well with the AE1 being slightly softer (which is what you would expect) I have not done a back to back comparison with the Z1 on a large hd screen but I would guess the 270 would be a bit better as it has later cmos chips. Probably the limitation is actually the recording medium. I can say that my AE1 in good light produced stunning pictures ( using full auto!!)of my French holiday via component onto a 47inch 1080p tv and it fits into a large pocket.
I have not seen any rolling shutter effects on the 270 yet.
My point earlier about hard drives wasnt that I dont like using them but that I wouldnt want to store material long term on one.