Z7 MAJOR problem? at DVinfo.net

Bruce Ostrout · April 11th, 2008, 10:02 PM

I always shoot full manual and one of the main compositional/setting places I live when shooting is at full tele, fully open iris. What I have found on both Z7s that I have is when you zoom in full tele to pull focus and then zoom out to compose the image gets slightly soft at the right and center and the left side gets very blurry. See screen shot here http://www.firstsightpictures.com/z7blur.jpg

So if you zoom into a bridal party or couple from a distance or anything at all to get a shallow DOF the focus plane on the left will be out of focus as you see the tree on the left out of focus. Yes i did do the auto and manual flange/backfocus adjustment but there was still no change in the result. This is EXTREMELY bad for any manual shooters who shoot creatively.

So Z7 users. Put the cam in full manual use ND and or shutter to bring your exposure into range and then zoom in fully to a lineup of subjects that are the same distance away if your iris is wide open it should be at 2.0, ten back out until you see the iris limit go to 1.8. In this range you should see the inconsistency at it's worst. I have already confirmed with another user that his Z7 does the exact same thing but the blur is on the right side.

Here is a short video clip http://www.firstsightpictures.com/z7blur.wmv of my closeup cam on a dance performance. You can see where I go in tight to pull focus twice during the clip and zoom out for a head to toe and it gets a little soft and then anytime the performers are in the left side of the frame it gets even blurrier. You can't see it at all on the Z7 LCD, even with peaking it looks to be in focus.

Keith Forman · April 12th, 2008, 07:54 AM

I have noticed this as well. I have not had a lot of time with the camera but I did video a classical concert last night and it does seem to have a similar characteristic that you mentioned. This might be a major problem! I cannot confirm that it is the lens or the electronics, though.

kdbf

Jake Latendresse · April 12th, 2008, 08:22 AM

As soon as I recieve my lens adapter for my Nikons I will run a test to determine if this is a lens issue or electronics. Maybe someone else can do it sooner.

Marshall Levy · April 12th, 2008, 08:24 AM

I have the wonders of this as well. Interestingly, I have a blur on the right side whereas Bruce's was on the left.

I swear I'm really losing confidence in this camera and Company.

See attached image. It's a still frame from video I captured when talking with Bruce. Notice how the blur is on the right and not the left. Each box of DVD's were equally spaced and the curviture is based on the desk. Oh, and I didn't scale the image properly which is why it's skewed.

Steve Gerhart · April 12th, 2008, 08:30 AM

One thing I don't quite understand is this from Sony that states "To address back-focus concerns, the Zeiss 14X and 8X zooms maintain automatic back-focus adjustment (akin to the automated back-focus routine in the EX1's service menu)".

Keith Forman · April 12th, 2008, 09:04 AM

mine appears on the left side...

Steve Gerhart · April 12th, 2008, 09:26 AM

I would suggest a more exact test with a backfocus pattern and Carefull set-up to eliminate skew and alignment issue

Also check that lens has no wobble. Can you wobble the lens and does the image go in and out of focus?

Check that lens is fitted correctly, remove and re attach and check nothing is there

Also Aberration can be caused by any add on filters, remove any filters and re check

Keith Forman · April 12th, 2008, 09:47 AM

I have to reevaluate. After reviewing the footage I took yesterday it appears to be not as much of an issue as I first though. It may just be an extremely narrow depth of field and not a camera issue with mine.

Bruce Ostrout · April 12th, 2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Gerhart

I would suggest a more exact test with a backfocus pattern and Carefull set-up to eliminate skew and alignment issue

Also check that lens has no wobble. Can you wobble the lens and does the image go in and out of focus?

Check that lens is fitted correctly, remove and re attach and check nothing is there

Also Aberration can be caused by any add on filters, remove any filters and re check

No wobble. Reseated and locked numerous times and verified clean glass inside outside with no filters.

I have performed several manual and auto backfocus/flange tests on both the Z1 cams I have and both are exactly the same every time. Here is a clip showing proper focus technique and watch what happens to the subject.

http://www.firstsightpictures.com/Z7blur2.wmv

Bruce Ostrout · April 12th, 2008, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Forman

I have to reevaluate. After reviewing the footage I took yesterday it appears to be not as much of an issue as I first though. It may just be an extremely narrow depth of field and not a camera issue with mine.

I am pretty much sure by your clip, that you have the exact same issue. It looks like the light in that perf was pretty decent so you may have been stopped down a little which begins to minimize the issue. Do exactly as I say open up full zoom in, focus and then zoom out 10-25% record it to CF and then put it in full frame on your timeline and see it yourself.

Steve Gerhart · April 12th, 2008, 11:15 AM

Bruce, do you have a test with a zoom in all the way,
then focus,
then zoom back, as a continuance shot,
so we can see when the left part goes out of focus
also do u have any add on filters and have u removed and re seated lens

Bruce Ostrout · April 12th, 2008, 11:23 AM

Yes the clip I just posted does just that.
http://www.firstsightpictures.com/Z7blur2.wmv
no filters and several remove, reseat, lock. under several lighting conditions and all 4 ND settings. I am pretty positive this is a lens issue. It was great that sony went after putting a full manual lens on a camera on this form factor, too bad it just sucks. Time for sony to get on Zeiss and get these changed out. Sucks because i have to reset all of my camera bags back to Z1 cams and explain to several customers why their expensive video is blurry and wait for these cams to be made right.....

Keith Forman · April 12th, 2008, 11:34 AM

I am not sure now. Here are some grabs from you video. I don't see the issue of one sided blur on these.

kdbf

Keith Forman · April 12th, 2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Ostrout

I am pretty much sure by your clip, that you have the exact same issue. It looks like the light in that perf was pretty decent so you may have been stopped down a little which begins to minimize the issue. Do exactly as I say open up full zoom in, focus and then zoom out 10-25% record it to CF and then put it in full frame on your timeline and see it yourself.

Yes, it was a very dark room and the f-stop was fully open. no gain. it looks like a narrow depth of field issue but not a camera problem.

Bruce Ostrout · April 12th, 2008, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Forman

I am not sure now. Here are some grabs from you video. I don't see the issue of one sided blur on these.

kdbf

You have to watch the video. I don't know what you did to that second grab. Looks like you put a gaussian on it to even out the blur. The first grab is from where I zoomed in to pull focus and then you see I zoom out and the subject I placed in focus goes blurry but everything from the center to the right of it at the same focal length is in focus. Sony just called me from NAB and said they are analyzing everything now. So if you have a Z7 don't want to be stuck with a major issue of a half muddied up frame for a large portion of your shots you need to do this test properly.

April 11th, 2008, 10:02 PM	#1
Bruce Ostrout Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Jacksonville Fl Posts: 107	Z7 MAJOR problem? I always shoot full manual and one of the main compositional/setting places I live when shooting is at full tele, fully open iris. What I have found on both Z7s that I have is when you zoom in full tele to pull focus and then zoom out to compose the image gets slightly soft at the right and center and the left side gets very blurry. See screen shot here http://www.firstsightpictures.com/z7blur.jpg So if you zoom into a bridal party or couple from a distance or anything at all to get a shallow DOF the focus plane on the left will be out of focus as you see the tree on the left out of focus. Yes i did do the auto and manual flange/backfocus adjustment but there was still no change in the result. This is EXTREMELY bad for any manual shooters who shoot creatively. So Z7 users. Put the cam in full manual use ND and or shutter to bring your exposure into range and then zoom in fully to a lineup of subjects that are the same distance away if your iris is wide open it should be at 2.0, ten back out until you see the iris limit go to 1.8. In this range you should see the inconsistency at it's worst. I have already confirmed with another user that his Z7 does the exact same thing but the blur is on the right side. Here is a short video clip http://www.firstsightpictures.com/z7blur.wmv of my closeup cam on a dance performance. You can see where I go in tight to pull focus twice during the clip and zoom out for a head to toe and it gets a little soft and then anytime the performers are in the left side of the frame it gets even blurrier. You can't see it at all on the Z7 LCD, even with peaking it looks to be in focus.

April 12th, 2008, 08:24 AM	#4
Marshall Levy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 304	I have the wonders of this as well. Interestingly, I have a blur on the right side whereas Bruce's was on the left. I swear I'm really losing confidence in this camera and Company. See attached image. It's a still frame from video I captured when talking with Bruce. Notice how the blur is on the right and not the left. Each box of DVD's were equally spaced and the curviture is based on the desk. Oh, and I didn't scale the image properly which is why it's skewed. Attached Thumbnails

April 12th, 2008, 08:30 AM	#5
Steve Gerhart Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Jim Thorpe PA Posts: 34	automatic back-focus adjustment? One thing I don't quite understand is this from Sony that states "To address back-focus concerns, the Zeiss 14X and 8X zooms maintain automatic back-focus adjustment (akin to the automated back-focus routine in the EX1's service menu)".

April 12th, 2008, 09:47 AM	#8
Keith Forman Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Williamstown Mass Posts: 192	I have to reevaluate. After reviewing the footage I took yesterday it appears to be not as much of an issue as I first though. It may just be an extremely narrow depth of field and not a camera issue with mine. Attached Thumbnails

April 12th, 2008, 11:34 AM	#13
Keith Forman Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Williamstown Mass Posts: 192	I am not sure now. Here are some grabs from you video. I don't see the issue of one sided blur on these. kdbf Attached Thumbnails

April 12th, 2008, 07:54 AM	#2
Keith Forman Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Williamstown Mass Posts: 192	I have noticed this as well. I have not had a lot of time with the camera but I did video a classical concert last night and it does seem to have a similar characteristic that you mentioned. This might be a major problem! I cannot confirm that it is the lens or the electronics, though. kdbf

April 12th, 2008, 08:22 AM	#3
Jake Latendresse Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Platte River, NE Posts: 86	As soon as I recieve my lens adapter for my Nikons I will run a test to determine if this is a lens issue or electronics. Maybe someone else can do it sooner.

April 12th, 2008, 09:04 AM	#6
Keith Forman Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Williamstown Mass Posts: 192	mine appears on the left side...

April 12th, 2008, 09:26 AM	#7
Steve Gerhart Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Jim Thorpe PA Posts: 34	I would suggest a more exact test with a backfocus pattern and Carefull set-up to eliminate skew and alignment issue Also check that lens has no wobble. Can you wobble the lens and does the image go in and out of focus? Check that lens is fitted correctly, remove and re attach and check nothing is there Also Aberration can be caused by any add on filters, remove any filters and re check

April 12th, 2008, 11:15 AM	#11
Steve Gerhart Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Jim Thorpe PA Posts: 34	Bruce, do you have a test with a zoom in all the way, then focus, then zoom back, as a continuance shot, so we can see when the left part goes out of focus also do u have any add on filters and have u removed and re seated lens

April 12th, 2008, 11:23 AM	#12
Bruce Ostrout Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Jacksonville Fl Posts: 107	Yes the clip I just posted does just that. http://www.firstsightpictures.com/Z7blur2.wmv no filters and several remove, reseat, lock. under several lighting conditions and all 4 ND settings. I am pretty positive this is a lens issue. It was great that sony went after putting a full manual lens on a camera on this form factor, too bad it just sucks. Time for sony to get on Zeiss and get these changed out. Sucks because i have to reset all of my camera bags back to Z1 cams and explain to several customers why their expensive video is blurry and wait for these cams to be made right.....