Z7 MAJOR problem?

Marshall Levy · April 16th, 2008, 09:23 PM

Just tried viewing clip - says it's protected. I even registered with this thing and still can't view it.

Jake Latendresse · April 16th, 2008, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall Levy

Just tried viewing clip - says it's protected. I even registered with this thing and still can't view it.

oops..fixed it. sorry.

Scott Brooks · April 16th, 2008, 10:02 PM

Maybe a little soft, but it's hard to see.

Has anyone done a test with three people? LOL I've been squinting at the computer so danged long that my eyes are shot and nothing looks in focus anymore. ;-)

(Actually I did see Bruce's trees.)

Marshall Levy · April 16th, 2008, 10:05 PM

I'll be doing this on Saturday with several people.

I've secured 18 people that I am going to have line up and run through the whole thing, yet again.

I've also emailed Sony, and others, about this nonsense.

Stephen Gradin · April 17th, 2008, 09:45 AM

Yes, I concur, I am having the same problem. After seeing Marshall's video, I also remember noticing this issue on a wedding I recently shot. I saw it during editing. It was on a medium shot of the wedding eremony. The left side (where Maid of Honor was standing) was a bit softer than either the center (Bridal couple) or the right side (Best Man). I didn't notice it anywhere else in my footage so I forgot about it, till I started reading all these comments. It's not horrible, but it's definitely a problem. I don't have time to post a sample right now, perhaps by this weekend. I will do more testing now, on both of my cameras. Thanks for bringing this issue to everyone's attention.

Arnaud Keil · April 17th, 2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Hartzell

Arnaud,

All your shots look nice and sharp to my eyes. Good shots with nice textures for the most part. I don't see an issue based on the stills you've posted. If there is group of users that have an issue such as mentioned by Bruce, it's likely a bad manufacturing run or do to damage during shipment or such (As Chris Hurd mentioned). Since Bruce concluded that the lens is the issue, and since lenses are physical devices, then it's likely a damaged or improperly manufactured lens. I've never heard of a lens give such an issue as Ian alluded to earlier.

@ Greg & Keith
The issue on my lens is maybe not the same than Bruce's, but it's an issue, indeed.
Don't you see that the focus is going to the background when zooming out.
I've observed that it occurs between 15mm and 10mm focals.
According to the stills made with the Z7, I do not see the sharpness on the center subjects on the wide shots.
Please someone tell me that I'm not alone to see that back focus issue. ;)

Keith Forman · April 17th, 2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnaud Keil

@ Greg & Keith
The issue on my lens is maybe not the same than Bruce's, but it's an issue, indeed.
Don't you see that the focus is going to the background when zooming out.
I've observed that it occurs between 15mm and 10mm focals.
According to the stills made with the Z7, I do not see the sharpness on the center subjects on the wide shots.
Please someone tell me that I'm not alone to see that back focus issue. ;)

Yes, I do see that now that I understand the context of the pictures you posted. But that might be a different issue altogether (though they are both back focus problems). In my tests with my camera, I don't have these problems. It does sound like there is a quality control issue with the lenses.

Keith

Andy B. Turner · April 17th, 2008, 03:48 PM

I'm wondering if there is a correlation with the serial numbers and the back focus issue? It does seem that there are quite a few people with the problem, but then there are others saying that they don't have the issues so apparently it is not present across the board. I really want to buy this camera but I'm just afraid.

Marshall Levy · April 18th, 2008, 10:28 AM

1 > If you are having focusing issues pertaining to the manual focus as I had written about in the previous post, YOU MUST LET ME KNOW ASAP. If you are having this problem, reply with information on what setup you used and/or samples. If not, post as well.

2 > Bruce and I are overnighting our cameras to Sony and they are having a tech from Japan fly in to examine these issues.

3 > I will update everyone as applicable but probably not until the middle of next week.

PLEASE ONLY POST IF YOU ARE AN OWNER OF THIS CAMERA AND HAVE RESULTS REGARDING THE ISSUE AT HAND. I NEED TO CREATE A LIST OF WHO HAS THE PROBLEM AND WHO DOES NOT AS PER SONY'S REQUEST. IF THIS DOES NOT GET DONE IT WILL NOT GET RECTIFIED.

====== Info regarding issue:::

Zoom in on objects that have a similar focal distance with regards to where they are....makes sense....focus on the center object at full telephoto and zoom out. The left-most area will appear blurred. Zoom back in and pan to any of these objects and they are in focus. The concept is simple and if you don't understand, think of it this way - if you film a wedding and zoom into a bride/groom in the center aisle, the zoom out, the left side will be out of focus whereas the center and right will be in focus. But, if you zoom back in, the focus is intact. That's a serious problem.

Here's a link for the non-believers or whatever....

http://rapidshare.com/files/108111585/test002.wmv.html - I am not leaving this link up for too long.
http://www.vimeo.com/908039
It's 89 seconds long. Can't be more obvious. Consistent on ALL cameras. (ref:glimmer)

Dont forget you have to open your iris all the way to 1.8-2.0 when you are at telephoto 75-80%. If you get way overexposed just turn your ND filters on an if that is not enough then start raising your shutter speed. If you have plenty of light your auto controls will never reach these settings. If you hav elow light like a reception then your camera will get to these settings, which is why it is important to resolve these issues because low light footage is tough enough to deal with blurring it makes it look crappier. For any film look folk this is critical because this is where you live in your camera when generating shallow DOF (ref:bruceo)

======

Call / PM / email / Post with questions.

mll

Henry Peplow · April 18th, 2008, 12:47 PM

Hi
I just joined. What a great forum.

I have a Z7; I'm from the UK so it's a Z7E. I had exactly the problem you're talking about.

When I got the camera it seemed fine... I took the lens off and fitted an adapter (Les Bosher) for my Nikon lenses, had a play, then replaced the Zeiss and did some test shooting. I got the 'blur problem' and pretty much freaked out. (What have I bought!?) It's not a slight degradation... it's immediately obvious on a larger screen. (Left side blur and general lack of sharpness.) I did some tests at different apertures, and did reference shots with my matching length Nikons. The aperture made little difference to the effect, in my judgment.

The point is, after taking the zoom off and putting it back on, the problem went away. Indeed, I've tried to replicate it (using the method outlined here) and I can't. My Zeiss lens is now sharp edge to edge.

I'm no expert, but I feel there may be a way to fix this lens to the body that means it looks and feels right, but it's a bit skewed. That would match the problems of side focus. I've looked and can't see how that could happen...

There is a problem here that needs some attention from Sony. Thanks for raising this. However, it might be worth having a try with removing and replacing the lens. I know that I need to fiddle it into position with a final fraction of an inch at the end. (Not trying to teach anyone how to fix a lens, just suggesting something...)

PS. I won't post my shots as they are just the same as the others here. I've got test frames showing a comparison of the Zeiss against my matching length Nikon. I'll put that in another thread to keep this clear. (BTW the Zeiss wins!)

www.henrypeplow.com
http://web.mac.com/hpeplow

Keith Forman · April 18th, 2008, 02:05 PM

berkshireav.com/test.wmv

Here's just a short quick test. Aperture full open. Focused and then zoomed out to 80%.

kdbf

Marshall Levy · April 18th, 2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Forman

berkshireav.com/test.wmv

Here's just a short quick test. Aperture full open. Focused and then zoomed out to 80%.

kdbf

You need to zoom in and properly manual focus and then zoom out, so the initial focal point is consistent. What you showed really doesn't illustrate the issue......

Keith Forman · April 18th, 2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall Levy

You need to zoom in and properly manual focus and then zoom out, so the initial focal point is consistent. What you showed really doesn't illustrate the issue......

I zoomed in and focused before the beginning of the clip. Everything was manual. The reason you don't see the issue is because it does not happen with my lens.

Marshall Levy · April 18th, 2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Forman

I zoomed in and focused before the beginning of the clip. Everything was manual. The reason you don't see the issue is because it does not happen with my lens.

Perhaps, but for the purpose of finding out if your camera is affected or not, you need to have a more controlled setup.

If you're going to focus on your vehicle as you did in the sample clip, use a tripod to get a more solid shot, zoom in and focus, having the iris yield a 2.0 F-stop...zoom out, and check focus. Try to get enough immediate objects on the same focal plane. If you're using the car mfg. emblem, there's not too much for the sake of this test to determine the results by, based on the car curviture and red brake lights.

Scott Brooks · April 18th, 2008, 03:10 PM

The only thing I would add is that if someone has no issues with their lens ... great for them. But I'm assuming that at this point with cameras being sent in it's more important for those of us who actually DO have a problem to make it known ... and mine most certainly does.

April 18th, 2008, 10:28 AM	#84
Marshall Levy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 304	Update - Owners Need To Read This 1 > If you are having focusing issues pertaining to the manual focus as I had written about in the previous post, YOU MUST LET ME KNOW ASAP. If you are having this problem, reply with information on what setup you used and/or samples. If not, post as well. 2 > Bruce and I are overnighting our cameras to Sony and they are having a tech from Japan fly in to examine these issues. 3 > I will update everyone as applicable but probably not until the middle of next week. PLEASE ONLY POST IF YOU ARE AN OWNER OF THIS CAMERA AND HAVE RESULTS REGARDING THE ISSUE AT HAND. I NEED TO CREATE A LIST OF WHO HAS THE PROBLEM AND WHO DOES NOT AS PER SONY'S REQUEST. IF THIS DOES NOT GET DONE IT WILL NOT GET RECTIFIED. ====== Info regarding issue::: Zoom in on objects that have a similar focal distance with regards to where they are....makes sense....focus on the center object at full telephoto and zoom out. The left-most area will appear blurred. Zoom back in and pan to any of these objects and they are in focus. The concept is simple and if you don't understand, think of it this way - if you film a wedding and zoom into a bride/groom in the center aisle, the zoom out, the left side will be out of focus whereas the center and right will be in focus. But, if you zoom back in, the focus is intact. That's a serious problem. Here's a link for the non-believers or whatever.... http://rapidshare.com/files/108111585/test002.wmv.html - I am not leaving this link up for too long. http://www.vimeo.com/908039 It's 89 seconds long. Can't be more obvious. Consistent on ALL cameras. (ref:glimmer) Dont forget you have to open your iris all the way to 1.8-2.0 when you are at telephoto 75-80%. If you get way overexposed just turn your ND filters on an if that is not enough then start raising your shutter speed. If you have plenty of light your auto controls will never reach these settings. If you hav elow light like a reception then your camera will get to these settings, which is why it is important to resolve these issues because low light footage is tough enough to deal with blurring it makes it look crappier. For any film look folk this is critical because this is where you live in your camera when generating shallow DOF (ref:bruceo) ====== Call / PM / email / Post with questions. mll

April 16th, 2008, 09:23 PM	#76
Marshall Levy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 304	Just tried viewing clip - says it's protected. I even registered with this thing and still can't view it.

April 16th, 2008, 10:02 PM	#78
Scott Brooks Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Charleston, IL Posts: 231	Maybe a little soft, but it's hard to see. Has anyone done a test with three people? LOL I've been squinting at the computer so danged long that my eyes are shot and nothing looks in focus anymore. ;-) (Actually I did see Bruce's trees.)

April 16th, 2008, 10:05 PM	#79
Marshall Levy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 304	I'll be doing this on Saturday with several people. I've secured 18 people that I am going to have line up and run through the whole thing, yet again. I've also emailed Sony, and others, about this nonsense.

April 17th, 2008, 09:45 AM	#80
Stephen Gradin Contributor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Nottingham, MD Posts: 66	Yes, I concur, I am having the same problem. After seeing Marshall's video, I also remember noticing this issue on a wedding I recently shot. I saw it during editing. It was on a medium shot of the wedding eremony. The left side (where Maid of Honor was standing) was a bit softer than either the center (Bridal couple) or the right side (Best Man). I didn't notice it anywhere else in my footage so I forgot about it, till I started reading all these comments. It's not horrible, but it's definitely a problem. I don't have time to post a sample right now, perhaps by this weekend. I will do more testing now, on both of my cameras. Thanks for bringing this issue to everyone's attention.

April 17th, 2008, 03:48 PM	#83
Andy B. Turner Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: O'Fallon, MO Posts: 47	I'm wondering if there is a correlation with the serial numbers and the back focus issue? It does seem that there are quite a few people with the problem, but then there are others saying that they don't have the issues so apparently it is not present across the board. I really want to buy this camera but I'm just afraid.

April 18th, 2008, 12:47 PM	#85
Henry Peplow New Boot Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: London UK Posts: 12	Hi I just joined. What a great forum. I have a Z7; I'm from the UK so it's a Z7E. I had exactly the problem you're talking about. When I got the camera it seemed fine... I took the lens off and fitted an adapter (Les Bosher) for my Nikon lenses, had a play, then replaced the Zeiss and did some test shooting. I got the 'blur problem' and pretty much freaked out. (What have I bought!?) It's not a slight degradation... it's immediately obvious on a larger screen. (Left side blur and general lack of sharpness.) I did some tests at different apertures, and did reference shots with my matching length Nikons. The aperture made little difference to the effect, in my judgment. The point is, after taking the zoom off and putting it back on, the problem went away. Indeed, I've tried to replicate it (using the method outlined here) and I can't. My Zeiss lens is now sharp edge to edge. I'm no expert, but I feel there may be a way to fix this lens to the body that means it looks and feels right, but it's a bit skewed. That would match the problems of side focus. I've looked and can't see how that could happen... There is a problem here that needs some attention from Sony. Thanks for raising this. However, it might be worth having a try with removing and replacing the lens. I know that I need to fiddle it into position with a final fraction of an inch at the end. (Not trying to teach anyone how to fix a lens, just suggesting something...) PS. I won't post my shots as they are just the same as the others here. I've got test frames showing a comparison of the Zeiss against my matching length Nikon. I'll put that in another thread to keep this clear. (BTW the Zeiss wins!) www.henrypeplow.com http://web.mac.com/hpeplow

April 18th, 2008, 02:05 PM	#86
Keith Forman Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Williamstown Mass Posts: 192	berkshireav.com/test.wmv Here's just a short quick test. Aperture full open. Focused and then zoomed out to 80%. kdbf

April 18th, 2008, 03:10 PM	#90
Scott Brooks Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Charleston, IL Posts: 231	The only thing I would add is that if someone has no issues with their lens ... great for them. But I'm assuming that at this point with cameras being sent in it's more important for those of us who actually DO have a problem to make it known ... and mine most certainly does.