Z7 MAJOR problem?

Bruce Ostrout · April 13th, 2008, 11:51 AM

The lens doesn't turn it just sits flush and then the locking mechanisms lock it down.

I swithced it out and the cam requested a flange back adjustment. I performed it and then did the same test and it exhibited the exact same problem. I don't think it necessarily means it is the camera. I personally still think it is the lens.

Jake Latendresse · April 13th, 2008, 12:18 PM

Bruce,

Do your cameras flange adjustments work under AF mode? Mine does not...I have to do it manually. Why?

Thanks
Jake

Bruce Ostrout · April 13th, 2008, 12:22 PM

Yes. You just have to have the zoom in servo mode, switch is under the lens

Paul Osborne · April 13th, 2008, 01:35 PM

I have a z7 and have experienced an "issue" that may be related. When the lens hood is OFF, and you are in relatively low light, with soft diffused light to the camera left or right (but not visible to the lens in WA) I have seen glare/flare to the left or right of the recorded image. (to the opposite side to the source of oblique light).

It is most noticeable at the wide to near wide focal lengths and changes as you zoom in/out. It is very apparent, and more so when zooming, and when the image is dark (ie the flare is against dark backgrounds). I can't reproduce the effect when the lens hood is on, so it seems to be some internal reflection issues within the lens. Shooting into light sources does not produce this effect.

Can anyone reproduce this effect? maybe it is related to the above lens performance issues.

Greg Hartzell · April 13th, 2008, 03:36 PM

Could you possibly shoot a large poster, any flat image, but the bigger the better? Also, make sure your shooting straight on, the garage test looks like DOF to my eyes. Not saying it is, but do you have a dof scale for the distance, focal length, aperture you're shoot with? Does stopping down fix it?

It's really sad to see so many problems reported from this camera, hopefully they'll be fixed in later deliveries.

Matt Bishop · April 13th, 2008, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Osborne

I have a z7 and have experienced an "issue" that may be related. When the lens hood is OFF, and you are in relatively low light, with soft diffused light to the camera left or right (but not visible to the lens in WA) I have seen glare/flare to the left or right of the recorded image. (to the opposite side to the source of oblique light).

It is most noticeable at the wide to near wide focal lengths and changes as you zoom in/out. It is very apparent, and more so when zooming, and when the image is dark (ie the flare is against dark backgrounds). I can't reproduce the effect when the lens hood is on, so it seems to be some internal reflection issues within the lens. Shooting into light sources does not produce this effect.

Can anyone reproduce this effect? maybe it is related to the above lens performance issues.

That's why they make lens hoods :-) j/k. I have seen this problem with other cameras due to a filter....you didn't mention it, so just to rule it out, did you have a filter on the lens?

Bruce Ostrout · April 13th, 2008, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Hartzell

Could you possibly shoot a large poster, any flat image, but the bigger the better? Also, make sure your shooting straight on, the garage test looks like DOF to my eyes. Not saying it is, but do you have a dof scale for the distance, focal length, aperture you're shoot with? Does stopping down fix it?

It's really sad to see so many problems reported from this camera, hopefully they'll be fixed in later deliveries.

I've already posted numerous examples and tests. It is NOT A DOF ISSUE. If you do a backfocus adjustment and then zoom in anf focus on a subject and then zoom out and it goes out of focus... THAT is an issue in iteslf. This is even worse because not only does it lose sharpness it goes WAYY soft in almost half the frame. I really haven't tested stopping down on the aperture, and I guess I will, but any understanding of DOF will tell you that the image will get sharper as you close the iris. If anyone sees these examples and calls it a DOF issue then all they are doing is showing their lack of knowledge on the subject....

Bruce Ostrout · April 13th, 2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Bishop

That's why they make lens hoods :-) j/k. I have seen this problem with other cameras due to a filter....you didn't mention it, so just to rule it out, did you have a filter on the lens?

That's what it sounds like to me. Post some footage.

Paul Osborne · April 13th, 2008, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Ostrout

That's what it sounds like to me. Post some footage.

No, the camera was out of the box, no filters or any other reasons to increase the incidence of flare.

Firstly i don't experience it on any of the broadcast lenses I own on 2/3 and 1/2 inch cameras, nor even on a PD100, PD150, Z1 etc etc. Light straight down the lens yes, but not so obliquely (70 deg. to lens axis) that you would never even consider flagging or insisting on a lens hood. Likewise if it flares in such situations, maybe it will flare in less oblique scenarios - when any lens hood would be of no use whatsoever anyway.

Secondly there are occasions when you would not have the lens hood on (such as with a circular filter where the Z1 and Z7s dont facilitate it's use with the supplied lens hood, or close up macro work - the Z7 macro is excellent incidentally)

Thirdly, any lens that can cause such abberation with just the most minor of incident light does make me feel there is something moving forward and back in the zoom system that is reflecting light around uneccessarily.

Bruce Ostrout · April 13th, 2008, 06:24 PM

It seems like I might have seen that, but if you can post a clip or two that would be great. I am going into heavy shooting season and really need to figure this lens situation out...

Jake Latendresse · April 13th, 2008, 06:41 PM

Correct me if I am wrong, but I dont seem to be having this problem with my Z7U?? Here is a clip I shot today...1080i 60

http://www.vimeo.com/894765

I just got my camera 4 days ago brand new.

Bruce Ostrout · April 13th, 2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Latendresse

Correct me if I am wrong, but I dont seem to be having this problem with my Z7U?? Here is a clip I shot today...1080i 60

http://www.vimeo.com/894765

I just got my camera 4 days ago brand new.

cant tell by the clip. Your're zooming all the way out. You have to make sure your cam is in full manual. Zoom in, focus, zoom out about 25%. a good marker is to see as you are zooming out is that your iris should automatically go to 1.8. If it stays at 2.0 when zooming out then make sure you are fully open to 1.6 at wide before you zoom in.

Go to the camera menu then to the display menu then to Zoom display and change the setting from bar to number. Now your zoom will say 99 if you are zoomed all the way in, so now when you zoom out and your iris limit changes to 1.8 your zoom should be around Z75-80 which is at the 75-80% zoomed in position.

Paul Osborne · April 14th, 2008, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Ostrout

It seems like I might have seen that, but if you can post a clip or two that would be great. I am going into heavy shooting season and really need to figure this lens situation out...

Re: Lens Flare. I had a second Z7 (and indeed an EX1) to test today and BOTH Z7's exhibited the lens flare in the scene I described without the lens hood on. Seems it is as designed. When I have a moment I'll get a still image posted.

Steve Gerhart · April 14th, 2008, 04:31 PM

Based on my experience from photography, diffraction effects edge sharpness at small apertures, aberrations effects large aperture, a lens best quality is near the middle of F stop range.

A contolled test must be done to eliminate variables and test back focus

I have asked this question a couple of times, maybe Juan Martinez can answer, he seems to know alot about this camera as his presentation was quite knowledgeable

One thing I don't quite understand is this from Sony that states "To address back-focus concerns, the Zeiss 14X and 8X zooms maintain automatic back-focus adjustment (akin to the automated back-focus routine in the EX1's service menu)".

Laurence Kingston · April 14th, 2008, 09:33 PM

Bruce, is the problem worse fully zoomed out or do you also have problems into the zoom range?

April 13th, 2008, 11:51 AM	#31
Bruce Ostrout Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Jacksonville Fl Posts: 107	The lens doesn't turn it just sits flush and then the locking mechanisms lock it down. I swithced it out and the cam requested a flange back adjustment. I performed it and then did the same test and it exhibited the exact same problem. I don't think it necessarily means it is the camera. I personally still think it is the lens.

April 13th, 2008, 12:18 PM	#32
Jake Latendresse Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Platte River, NE Posts: 86	Bruce, Do your cameras flange adjustments work under AF mode? Mine does not...I have to do it manually. Why? Thanks Jake

April 13th, 2008, 12:22 PM	#33
Bruce Ostrout Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Jacksonville Fl Posts: 107	Yes. You just have to have the zoom in servo mode, switch is under the lens

April 13th, 2008, 01:35 PM	#34
Paul Osborne Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London, UK Posts: 36	I have a z7 and have experienced an "issue" that may be related. When the lens hood is OFF, and you are in relatively low light, with soft diffused light to the camera left or right (but not visible to the lens in WA) I have seen glare/flare to the left or right of the recorded image. (to the opposite side to the source of oblique light). It is most noticeable at the wide to near wide focal lengths and changes as you zoom in/out. It is very apparent, and more so when zooming, and when the image is dark (ie the flare is against dark backgrounds). I can't reproduce the effect when the lens hood is on, so it seems to be some internal reflection issues within the lens. Shooting into light sources does not produce this effect. Can anyone reproduce this effect? maybe it is related to the above lens performance issues.

April 13th, 2008, 03:36 PM	#35
Greg Hartzell Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Columbia, CT Posts: 168	Could you possibly shoot a large poster, any flat image, but the bigger the better? Also, make sure your shooting straight on, the garage test looks like DOF to my eyes. Not saying it is, but do you have a dof scale for the distance, focal length, aperture you're shoot with? Does stopping down fix it? It's really sad to see so many problems reported from this camera, hopefully they'll be fixed in later deliveries.

April 13th, 2008, 06:24 PM	#40
Bruce Ostrout Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Jacksonville Fl Posts: 107	It seems like I might have seen that, but if you can post a clip or two that would be great. I am going into heavy shooting season and really need to figure this lens situation out...

April 13th, 2008, 06:41 PM	#41
Jake Latendresse Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Platte River, NE Posts: 86	Correct me if I am wrong, but I dont seem to be having this problem with my Z7U?? Here is a clip I shot today...1080i 60 http://www.vimeo.com/894765 I just got my camera 4 days ago brand new.

April 14th, 2008, 04:31 PM	#44
Steve Gerhart Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Jim Thorpe PA Posts: 34	Based on my experience from photography, diffraction effects edge sharpness at small apertures, aberrations effects large aperture, a lens best quality is near the middle of F stop range. A contolled test must be done to eliminate variables and test back focus I have asked this question a couple of times, maybe Juan Martinez can answer, he seems to know alot about this camera as his presentation was quite knowledgeable One thing I don't quite understand is this from Sony that states "To address back-focus concerns, the Zeiss 14X and 8X zooms maintain automatic back-focus adjustment (akin to the automated back-focus routine in the EX1's service menu)".

April 14th, 2008, 09:33 PM	#45
Laurence Kingston Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Clermont, FL. Posts: 941	Bruce, is the problem worse fully zoomed out or do you also have problems into the zoom range?