Z7U or EX1...tough decision.

[Bruce Ostrout]

Originally Posted by Greg Hartzell

I don't get it?

Not quite the "test" results I was looking for. Lets hope for a good review.

My primary concern is performance in extreme low light, so I quickly tested a Z1 and Z7 in the 2 comps and settings I commonly use in extreme low light, which is 15db 1/30 and full telephoto. The images were essentially the same with the Z7 winning at telephoto because of the lens, which is good for me, but I am very dissapointed that the Z7's chips are no more sensitive or cleaner for that matter than the 3+ yr old Z1.

[Laurence Kingston]

Try the Z7 in 30p and 24p and see if you don't like the results better.

[Bruce Ostrout]

Originally Posted by Laurence Kingston

Try the Z7 in 30p and 24p and see if you don't like the results better.

Already did and I am pleased with the progressive modes, especially compared to the bogus 24F modes of FX/Z1, but the light sensitivity is still no different than the Z1.

I would start converting my project workflow to 30P and maybe 24P just for the cleaner stills, but I work in Sony Vegas and I have heard grumblings on how poorly Vegas is handling slow motion interpolation of progressive footage.....

[Greg Hartzell]

Bruce, thanks much for the pictures. If you feel like you have the time, it would be really sweet if you could shoot a grayscale chart, or color chip chart (or both), if you have these on hand. I'm not completely sure, but I think there are a few places that you can find these charts for a free download. I'm interested to see how these cameras perform under normal lighting conditions with proper illumination. Also, shooting these charts at full gain would tell us lots about these cameras as well.

Thanks for your posts and interests.

Greg Hartzell

[Laurence Kingston]

Originally Posted by Bruce Ostrout

Already did and I am pleased with the progressive modes, especially compared to the bogus 24F modes of FX/Z1, but the light sensitivity is still no different than the Z1.

I would start converting my project workflow to 30P and maybe 24P just for the cleaner stills, but I work in Sony Vegas and I have heard grumblings on how poorly Vegas is handling slow motion interpolation of progressive footage.....

You need to change the shutter rate too: 30 or 24 depending on the frame rate. I get a real jump in low light brightness when I do this.

[Tom Hardwick]

Laurence - you're presumably slowing the shutter speed by more than a stop when you switch from 60i to 24p, so I'm not surprised you get a 'jump in low light brightness'. You should be able to film in less than half the light.

tom.

[Laurence Kingston]

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

Laurence - you're presumably slowing the shutter speed by more than a stop when you switch from 60i to 24p, so I'm not surprised you get a 'jump in low light brightness'. You should be able to film in less than half the light.

tom.

Tom, yes that is the case. I was responding to this post:

Already did and I am pleased with the progressive modes, especially compared to the bogus 24F modes of FX/Z1, but the light sensitivity is still no different than the Z1.

He should be seeing quite a marked difference. I know I am.

[Monday Isa]

Laurence if you have some time can you post stills of the difference? Thanks

Monday

[Gabriel Chiefetz]

Thanks for the still, Bruce. I for one would be very interested to see the Z1 at 60i with high gain vs. Z7 at 24p with high gain. This is where the difference should shine through, so to speak?

[Bruce Ostrout]

Originally Posted by Laurence Kingston

You need to change the shutter rate too: 30 or 24 depending on the frame rate. I get a real jump in low light brightness when I do this.

The settings are in the file name. I was at 15db 1/30 shutter which I most often use in lowlight weddings. going to 24P 1/24 is no better than 60i 1/15 because the illumination is basically the same, but the footage is generally unusable because of excessive blur

[Bruce Ostrout]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Chiefetz

Thanks for the still, Bruce. I for one would be very interested to see the Z1 at 60i with high gain vs. Z7 at 24p with high gain. This is where the difference should shine through, so to speak?

Not much difference at all. It seems the gain noise is a little finer on the Z7, but for all practical purposes they are pretty much the same.

I will have much better feedback this weekend as I will be shooting a lot of real world footage in various lighting conditions.

[Gabriel Chiefetz]

Hmmm, interesting. So how does this square with the folks who are saying that the Z7 is comparable to the PD170 in low light?

[Brian Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Bruce Ostrout

Already did and I am pleased with the progressive modes, especially compared to the bogus 24F modes of FX/Z1, but the light sensitivity is still no different than the Z1.

I would start converting my project workflow to 30P and maybe 24P just for the cleaner stills, but I work in Sony Vegas and I have heard grumblings on how poorly Vegas is handling slow motion interpolation of progressive footage.....

BRUCE I have had no problems with slow motion in Vegas I shoot in 24p and 30p for most on my weddings. When shooting in 24p the shutter speed should be set to 48. 30p shutter 30.THe footage on my wedding demo is shot with 90% HVR-V1U'S 30P MODE and 10%HDR-FX1 60I rendered to 30p Timeline Sony Vegas Pro 8.
http://www.dvdaction.net/dvdaction_002.htm

Also when comparing the Z7U to the FX1 as for as gain the Z7 low gain is -6 and the high gain is +21 while the FX1 low gain starts @ 0 and goes to +18. So can you say that the 0 gain setting is the same on both cams when comparing them.

[Paul Dhadialla]

Brian, I don't own a Z7 - but own a Z1 and a new EX1.

2 questions

I noticed you shoot 24p for weddings. Any issues with that when it comes to panning (motion judder). I assume if you keep your pans slow you are ok.
Any issues with dance at 24p? I really like the look and thinking of going this route. Any advice?

Secondly, based on the feedback i'm seeing above - would you say the sensitivity of the Z7 is basically the same as the Z1 with the progressive capability of the V1

Paul

[Brian Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Paul Dhadialla

Brian, I don't own a Z7 - but own a Z1 and a new EX1.

2 questions

I noticed you shoot 24p for weddings. Any issues with that when it comes to panning (motion judder). I assume if you keep your pans slow you are ok.
Any issues with dance at 24p? I really like the look and thinking of going this route. Any advice?

Secondly, based on the feedback i'm seeing above - would you say the sensitivity of the Z7 is basically the same as the Z1 with the progressive capability of the V1

Paul

The clips on the demo footage is 30p you do have to use slower pans with 24p footage. I post some wedding clips in 24p next week.

I own the Z7, EX and HC1 sold my V1, z1, and Fx1. The Z7 does have better low light sensitivity than the FX1 . I will borrow an FX1 and try to do a comparision between the three cams this weekend.