Sony 2008 Product Roadmap at DVinfo.net

Steve Mullen · November 23rd, 2007, 08:02 PM

I've been concerned about the pricing and competition from the EX1. Earlier I posted: "Therefore, part of the new higher price is the XMOR CMOS chips. Another part is the better manual controls. Plus the higher rez. LCD. So we are looking at a camera that is better much than the Z1, HVX200, and any Canon."

I now think I see how these new camcorders and the EX1 fit into the market.

Think of these two camcorders and the EX1 has being two different concepts of what 2008 HD camcorders should be like. They are like three flavors of fruit juice. None of them is TOTALLY better than the others. None of them is TOTALLY worse than the others. We have 3 camcorders that were designed (likely by different divisions) with different feature sets to meet different needs.

The customer picks the one that most fits their needs.

Pricing seems to have been driven by what each model's competition costs. If Canon and JVC now charge $10K for a shoulder-mount camcorder -- then so will Sony. The competition has demonstrated that tons of folks will pay $10K. At $6K, the HVX200 and Z1 prove that there are folks who will spend this much for a hand-held camcorder.

The old prosumer price range for DV camcorders of from $3K to $5K has been blown away. Today's VX1000 is now 2X more expensive.

Unless, of course, you count last year's V1 as the true VX1000's replacement. This suggests to me that the "V2" will get EXMOR CMOS chips. Thus, it looks like 1/4-in HD CMOS chips have now taken the place of 1/3-in SD CCDs. Which makes perfect sense since the 1/2-in chip is the new 2/3-in chip.

Mike Burgess · November 24th, 2007, 08:06 AM

So Steve, if Sony follows a similar path that it has for the past few years, do you think they will come out with a replacement for the V1 and/or the FX7, using the 1/3 inch (or 1/2 inch) XMOR CMOS chips, etc.? And if they do, when does your crystal ball suggest a possible date?

Mike

Heath McKnight · November 26th, 2007, 11:35 PM

It depends, in my opinion. Usually pro cameras have a 2 year shelf life (consumers, around 1 year), but the FX1 is still around, three years later, and the Z7 is coming out three years to the month after the Z1 shipped.

I wonder if the FX1 will be discontinued soon, because it's still going strong, as far as I know.

I love the V1u, and it's a great camera at a great price.

Heath

Heath McKnight · November 27th, 2007, 09:30 AM

The FX7 is to the FX1 as the HC3 was to the HC1; more consumer than professional. That's why the FX7 doesn't move like the FX1.

Heath

Ron Evans · November 27th, 2007, 01:16 PM

The relationship is more like FX7 to V1 is like FX1 to Z1 or HC1 to A1 and VX2100 to PD170. I believe in the past it was the consumer versions that came out first followed quickly by the DVCam or Pro HDV versions. This time its the PRo version that has been announced with no info about a consumer/prosumer version. The differences have been DVCam/DV( instead of DV SP/LP) , XLR audio and a few more menu items.

Ron Evans

Heath McKnight · November 27th, 2007, 01:21 PM

While the FX7 and V1 share the same body, the V1 has full manual controls, which the FX1 has, too. The FX7 is lacking key manual controls.

Heath

Craig Irving · November 27th, 2007, 03:49 PM

Heath, please explain.

Which of those key manual controls are you referring to in the V1U that aren't in the FX7? Aside from 24P, and obviously the audio (on account of consumer products not having XLR inputs).

Heath McKnight · November 27th, 2007, 05:26 PM

The audio is the main thing.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...tNumber=HDRFX7

Looks like you can control a little more than I originally thought, but from what I understand, the FX1 is still very popular.

Heath

Ron Evans · November 27th, 2007, 05:43 PM

It may well be that the FX7 has a few more controls than the FX1 also has HDMI output too. The FX1 may have the advantage in low light though which may account for the popularity of the FX1. I will certainly keep my FX1 but will be interested to see what comes in the next little while from Sony to see if there is a prosumer version of the Z7 etc.
The FX7 is not on the US site but is still on the Canadian and UK sites!!!!
Ron Evans

Heath McKnight · November 27th, 2007, 06:10 PM

I noticed that, too. I hate to say it, but the V1 and FX7 didn't sell as well as everyone hoped. And that's a darn shame, since I love the V1. But I wonder how much I'll dig the Z7, since I had wanted Sony to put cinegamma and cinema color controls, along with 24p and 30p, in the Z1.

I love how the Z1 feels, ergonomically, more than the V1.

Heath

November 23rd, 2007, 08:02 PM	#1
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Sony 2008 Product Roadmap I've been concerned about the pricing and competition from the EX1. Earlier I posted: "Therefore, part of the new higher price is the XMOR CMOS chips. Another part is the better manual controls. Plus the higher rez. LCD. So we are looking at a camera that is better much than the Z1, HVX200, and any Canon." I now think I see how these new camcorders and the EX1 fit into the market. Think of these two camcorders and the EX1 has being two different concepts of what 2008 HD camcorders should be like. They are like three flavors of fruit juice. None of them is TOTALLY better than the others. None of them is TOTALLY worse than the others. We have 3 camcorders that were designed (likely by different divisions) with different feature sets to meet different needs. The customer picks the one that most fits their needs. Pricing seems to have been driven by what each model's competition costs. If Canon and JVC now charge $10K for a shoulder-mount camcorder -- then so will Sony. The competition has demonstrated that tons of folks will pay $10K. At $6K, the HVX200 and Z1 prove that there are folks who will spend this much for a hand-held camcorder. The old prosumer price range for DV camcorders of from $3K to $5K has been blown away. Today's VX1000 is now 2X more expensive. Unless, of course, you count last year's V1 as the true VX1000's replacement. This suggests to me that the "V2" will get EXMOR CMOS chips. Thus, it looks like 1/4-in HD CMOS chips have now taken the place of 1/3-in SD CCDs. Which makes perfect sense since the 1/2-in chip is the new 2/3-in chip. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

November 26th, 2007, 11:35 PM	#3
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	It depends, in my opinion. Usually pro cameras have a 2 year shelf life (consumers, around 1 year), but the FX1 is still around, three years later, and the Z7 is coming out three years to the month after the Z1 shipped. I wonder if the FX1 will be discontinued soon, because it's still going strong, as far as I know. I love the V1u, and it's a great camera at a great price. Heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

November 27th, 2007, 09:30 AM	#4
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	The FX7 is to the FX1 as the HC3 was to the HC1; more consumer than professional. That's why the FX7 doesn't move like the FX1. Heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

November 27th, 2007, 01:21 PM	#6
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	While the FX7 and V1 share the same body, the V1 has full manual controls, which the FX1 has, too. The FX7 is lacking key manual controls. Heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

November 27th, 2007, 05:26 PM	#8
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	The audio is the main thing. http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...tNumber=HDRFX7 Looks like you can control a little more than I originally thought, but from what I understand, the FX1 is still very popular. Heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

November 24th, 2007, 08:06 AM	#2
Mike Burgess Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Traverse City, Michigan Posts: 416	So Steve, if Sony follows a similar path that it has for the past few years, do you think they will come out with a replacement for the V1 and/or the FX7, using the 1/3 inch (or 1/2 inch) XMOR CMOS chips, etc.? And if they do, when does your crystal ball suggest a possible date? Mike

November 27th, 2007, 01:16 PM	#5
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	The relationship is more like FX7 to V1 is like FX1 to Z1 or HC1 to A1 and VX2100 to PD170. I believe in the past it was the consumer versions that came out first followed quickly by the DVCam or Pro HDV versions. This time its the PRo version that has been announced with no info about a consumer/prosumer version. The differences have been DVCam/DV( instead of DV SP/LP) , XLR audio and a few more menu items. Ron Evans

November 27th, 2007, 03:49 PM	#7
Craig Irving Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 539	Heath, please explain. Which of those key manual controls are you referring to in the V1U that aren't in the FX7? Aside from 24P, and obviously the audio (on account of consumer products not having XLR inputs).

November 27th, 2007, 05:43 PM	#9
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	It may well be that the FX7 has a few more controls than the FX1 also has HDMI output too. The FX1 may have the advantage in low light though which may account for the popularity of the FX1. I will certainly keep my FX1 but will be interested to see what comes in the next little while from Sony to see if there is a prosumer version of the Z7 etc. The FX7 is not on the US site but is still on the Canadian and UK sites!!!! Ron Evans

November 27th, 2007, 06:10 PM	#10
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I noticed that, too. I hate to say it, but the V1 and FX7 didn't sell as well as everyone hoped. And that's a darn shame, since I love the V1. But I wonder how much I'll dig the Z7, since I had wanted Sony to put cinegamma and cinema color controls, along with 24p and 30p, in the Z1. I love how the Z1 feels, ergonomically, more than the V1. Heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog