Sony Z7 / S270 various topics

Evan C. King · July 7th, 2008, 11:15 AM

Attach a small ball head or something to the hv30's shoe and put the mrc1 ont he other end. Or get or make some sort of bracket like the one that ships with the dr60.

Eugene Gekhter · July 12th, 2008, 05:13 PM

Never mind...

Ed Plamondon · July 20th, 2008, 12:47 AM

Hey there -
Just want to confirm...

If I choose HDV 24P Native, or 24P-A to tape, and then choose DV to the card.... the 24p DV file will not behave the same as the HDV recording correct? That is, going no native 24p DV straight to card, and no 24p-A DV file. Just the 24p over 60i.

That's my understanding anyway.

Will this throw off the notion that the DV Timecode info would match the HD source tapes if I shoot HD 24p Native to tape?

My guess is that if you wish to shoot HD-tape / DV-card, then you ought to stick with HD 24p over 60i, or 30p over 60i, or just straight up 60i. Yes?

Otherwise my guess is you may have trouble assembling an HD version down the road.

Is my thinking correct here?

I'm asking because I'm doing some quick turn stuff that is only needed Standard Def, but we're toying with 24p (for web and/or embedding into a powerpoint). My understanding is that if you're playing off a computer, then it's good to stay progressive and not mess with the pulldown (24p over 60i for instance).

In order to get a 24p video file to edit in a 23.97 timeline, I'm guessing I'd have to simply run every clip through compressor or another tool - correct?

Just thinking outloud and seeing if there's something I missed.

My other option is to shoot 30p and not worry about pulldown etc...

BY THE WAY... is there any difference in the HDV 30p Mode found in the Progressive menu and 30p found in the Interlaced menu?

Christopher Drews · July 20th, 2008, 02:13 AM

Welcome to DV Info. I read your post many times and find it confusing.

23.98 (23.976) cannot exist on tape which is not HD-CAM SR or D5*. Otherwise, it is over 60i as you say. If you final output is web - don't worry about pulldown either way. Pulldown comes into play when you film out (telecine video back to film) or make composites for VFX or need your content to live on HD-CAM SR or D5. For web, anything goes. Any frame rate will display on a TRT / LCD / VGA monitor. Any format will display, NTSC, PAL, SECAM. Don't trouble yourself with progressive and shoot in 24 p normal (inside 60i), don't deinterlace HDV unless you have to (HV20/30 is have to in my book).

Hope this helps,
-C

*There are exceptions but not worth noting.

Jon Oneill · July 22nd, 2008, 08:22 AM

I heard somewhere the Redrock adapter didn't work because of its autofocus macro, but does the R3 Sgpro work with the Z7?

Ed Plamondon · July 25th, 2008, 04:54 PM

Hi all,

Just curious - are any of you aware of an alternate way to pull power off the wall vs. having to route through the double battery charger? Even just a standard (and smaller) power brick to plug the one half that goes into the cam

Brian Standing · July 26th, 2008, 08:51 AM

If it uses the same battery as the PD170, Z1 and V1, wouldn't one of the adaptors for one of those cameras work?

Jon Oneill · August 6th, 2008, 06:39 AM

Using Final Cut this seems most apparent with HDV 25p footage captured to CF, also visible with HDV 25p Progressive captured to Tape.

But viewing HDV 25p Progressive captured to tape in just QuickTime viewer (not FCP) I'd say its not there.

Ian Campbell · August 6th, 2008, 07:00 PM

Hello,

I just got back from a shoot and noticed someone strange with the Z7U "smooth gain" featrure. I used smooth gain with the "slow" setting today for the first time. One (but maybe both) my Z7U’s seem to have a flaw or problem with gain. I was changing the gain settings (while shooting in full manual) and noticed that 3db, 6db and 9db all looked the same. The conference room we were shooting in was was dark -- the iris was at f2, the gain was 6db and the shutter speed 1/60th. I couldn’t figure it out, so I changed the high position to 15db just to run a test to see if this would make a change obvious. And the difference in the image was identical at 3db or 15db!!! The histogram didn’t indicate any change had been made via upping the gain. I took the camera off of “smooth gain” and then gain started to behave like I’d expect it would. You could then see the jump in gain in both overall image brightness -- and the histogram proved it too when you switch it up. At first I thought, “wow, smooth gain REALLY works, since you can’t see any differences as you change settings”. Has anyone also had a problem changing gain values while using smooth gain? I will test tonight with both cameras. It seems like enabling smooth gain disables the gain select switch – even though you do get a proper readout on the LCD of the gain setting selected.

Thanks . . .

Ian

Eric Nordquist · August 21st, 2008, 02:56 AM

the gama and black balance controls are a new feature to me. im coming from a dsr250 that I put over 1500 hours on.

being new to this im hoping someone can give me some liks or advice on what all those setting actually do. I've got pp1 and pp2 set to boost the black gamma and pp1 all +7 and pp2 all +3. the more gain used the more the picture looks soft so I've limited the gain to +9.

I have bought vortexmedia's video but he dosn't cover low light very much and many of the settings he uses would never work under my circumstances.

remember I'm doing all night footage so im working with only street lights and car lights.

David Arendt · August 21st, 2008, 04:00 AM

Hi,

We are using 2 FX1s and recently bought a Z7. I discovered that in low light situations, the Z7 is softer than the FX1. Artificial sharpness is set to the default on both camcorders. Even going setting it higher on the Z7, the Z7 is softer. The 2 cameras have been on full manual, aperture 1.6 on both, gain on 18db on the FX1 and on 9db on the Z7 in order to match brightness of both images. If I go higher then F4, the Z7 seems to start becoming less soft than the FX1. I tried automatic lens flange adjustment, even in a big room, with just a wall and the focus chart on it in order to be sure no other objects in the field of view influence auto adjustment.

Also conerning manual adjustement, has someone already done it ? I tried it and for the Tele end, it is very simple but for the wide end, I don't see any difference ?

Bye,
David Arendt

Ian Campbell · August 22nd, 2008, 07:47 AM

If you have the Vortex video for the Z7U, there are some nice, crisp and noise free examples of night shooting. Check out the part of the video where "slow shutter" is both talked about with some examples shown -- this might be helpful. I've done night work also, and the Z7U can do a great job at producing really good night shots with practically no noise.

The use of gain as high as +9 was too high for me in shooting nights (with lots of darks). I used 0db and had great results. You will need to do a night test and try different settings to test for the right exposure. The three I needed to play with mostly were iris, shutter speed and gain. For gain I tried -3db, 0db and +3db. Since you are shooting at night it's hard to know where to expose unless you do a test and keep a record of your settings when viewing footage. I ended up keeping my iris open (somewhere around f.2) and used 0db gain and shot at 1/30th. For me to achive the best result so that night really LOOKED like night meant that I had to aviod overexposing -- I found the use of the histogram, etc. is difficult to get the perfect exposure that I was looking for in night exterior shots.

Also, the black gamma setting if you adjust too far from default (with a lot of blacks in your footage) might look a little milky or just not quite right. I keep mine at either the default or at -1.

Also, since you have the Z7U Vortex title, have another look at the picture profiles chapter. There is some good advice about using the profiles to the user's advantage. If you find a profile that you like, use it . . . and if it's not quite right, simply give it a tweak to get the result you want. Since a lot of the profiles handle blacks differently, you might try testing at night with the camera's on-board pic profile settings combined with exposer settings. Keep good notes and you should be good to go.

Good luck with the night work.

Ian

Tom Cznarty · August 23rd, 2008, 04:46 AM

I will be shooting with the Z7u this coming week and I am interested in what the ISO rating would be for the Z7u especially in 24P. I've shot a great deal with the V1 and have that rated at 250.

John Knight · August 23rd, 2008, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Cznarty

I will be shooting with the Z7u this coming week and I am interested in what the ISO rating would be for the Z7u especially in 24P. I've shot a great deal with the V1 and have that rated at 250.

How do you measure this???

Chris Hocking · August 24th, 2008, 10:45 PM

Hi Everyone,

I have a friend who has recorded a whole lot of footage on a Sony Z7 in 25P mode onto tape.

I was just wondering how you go about capturing this footage, as they no longer have access to the camera. We have tried capturing it using a number of the Sony VTR decks, but they all just flash a "Wrong Format" error.

Can you capture footage from the Z7 using a Z1P? As far as I'm aware, the 25P footage is recorded to a 1080i time-line anyway, so it should work? When you fast forward the footage on the Sony decks you can see the footage - so I know the deck SHOULD be able to read it. I presume there is just some kind of "meta data" on the tape that tells the deck that it's "progressive" even though its recorded as 1080i.

Do you have to use a Z7 to capture Z7 footage? Are there any workarounds?

Thanks for your time!

Chris!

July 12th, 2008, 05:13 PM	#92
Eugene Gekhter New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Skokie, IL Posts: 8	Powering Z7U Never mind... Last edited by Eugene Gekhter; July 12th, 2008 at 05:44 PM.

July 20th, 2008, 12:47 AM	#93
Ed Plamondon New Boot Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: USA Posts: 23	HD to tape...DV to card (as it pertains to 24p) Hey there - Just want to confirm... If I choose HDV 24P Native, or 24P-A to tape, and then choose DV to the card.... the 24p DV file will not behave the same as the HDV recording correct? That is, going no native 24p DV straight to card, and no 24p-A DV file. Just the 24p over 60i. That's my understanding anyway. Will this throw off the notion that the DV Timecode info would match the HD source tapes if I shoot HD 24p Native to tape? My guess is that if you wish to shoot HD-tape / DV-card, then you ought to stick with HD 24p over 60i, or 30p over 60i, or just straight up 60i. Yes? Otherwise my guess is you may have trouble assembling an HD version down the road. Is my thinking correct here? I'm asking because I'm doing some quick turn stuff that is only needed Standard Def, but we're toying with 24p (for web and/or embedding into a powerpoint). My understanding is that if you're playing off a computer, then it's good to stay progressive and not mess with the pulldown (24p over 60i for instance). In order to get a 24p video file to edit in a 23.97 timeline, I'm guessing I'd have to simply run every clip through compressor or another tool - correct? Just thinking outloud and seeing if there's something I missed. My other option is to shoot 30p and not worry about pulldown etc... BY THE WAY... is there any difference in the HDV 30p Mode found in the Progressive menu and 30p found in the Interlaced menu?

July 22nd, 2008, 08:22 AM	#95
Jon Oneill Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Nottingham UK Posts: 37	Does the Z7 work with the SGpro 35mm Adapter? I heard somewhere the Redrock adapter didn't work because of its autofocus macro, but does the R3 Sgpro work with the Z7?

July 25th, 2008, 04:54 PM	#96
Ed Plamondon New Boot Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: USA Posts: 23	alternate charger for cam? Hi all, Just curious - are any of you aware of an alternate way to pull power off the wall vs. having to route through the double battery charger? Even just a standard (and smaller) power brick to plug the one half that goes into the cam

July 26th, 2008, 08:51 AM	#97
Brian Standing Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 621	If it uses the same battery as the PD170, Z1 and V1, wouldn't one of the adaptors for one of those cameras work? __________________ http://www.prolefeedstudios.com/blog/ Documentary for the masses!

July 7th, 2008, 11:15 AM	#91
Evan C. King Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 532	Attach a small ball head or something to the hv30's shoe and put the mrc1 ont he other end. Or get or make some sort of bracket like the one that ships with the dr60.

July 20th, 2008, 02:13 AM	#94
Christopher Drews Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 628	Welcome to DV Info. I read your post many times and find it confusing. 23.98 (23.976) cannot exist on tape which is not HD-CAM SR or D5. Otherwise, it is over 60i as you say. If you final output is web - don't worry about pulldown either way. Pulldown comes into play when you film out (telecine video back to film) or make composites for VFX or need your content to live on HD-CAM SR or D5. For web, anything goes. Any frame rate will display on a TRT / LCD / VGA monitor. Any format will display, NTSC, PAL, SECAM. Don't trouble yourself with progressive and shoot in 24 p normal (inside 60i), don't deinterlace HDV unless you have to (HV20/30 is have to in my book). Hope this helps, -C There are exceptions but not worth noting.

August 6th, 2008, 06:39 AM	#98
Jon Oneill Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Nottingham UK Posts: 37	Has anyone else noticed tearing of saturated reds in progressive HDV? Using Final Cut this seems most apparent with HDV 25p footage captured to CF, also visible with HDV 25p Progressive captured to Tape. But viewing HDV 25p Progressive captured to tape in just QuickTime viewer (not FCP) I'd say its not there.

August 6th, 2008, 07:00 PM	#99
Ian Campbell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Toronto, ON Canada Posts: 141	"Smooth Gain" issue? Hello, I just got back from a shoot and noticed someone strange with the Z7U "smooth gain" featrure. I used smooth gain with the "slow" setting today for the first time. One (but maybe both) my Z7U’s seem to have a flaw or problem with gain. I was changing the gain settings (while shooting in full manual) and noticed that 3db, 6db and 9db all looked the same. The conference room we were shooting in was was dark -- the iris was at f2, the gain was 6db and the shutter speed 1/60th. I couldn’t figure it out, so I changed the high position to 15db just to run a test to see if this would make a change obvious. And the difference in the image was identical at 3db or 15db!!! The histogram didn’t indicate any change had been made via upping the gain. I took the camera off of “smooth gain” and then gain started to behave like I’d expect it would. You could then see the jump in gain in both overall image brightness -- and the histogram proved it too when you switch it up. At first I thought, “wow, smooth gain REALLY works, since you can’t see any differences as you change settings”. Has anyone also had a problem changing gain values while using smooth gain? I will test tonight with both cameras. It seems like enabling smooth gain disables the gain select switch – even though you do get a proper readout on the LCD of the gain setting selected. Thanks . . . Ian

August 21st, 2008, 02:56 AM	#100
Eric Nordquist Tourist Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 1	night shooting the gama and black balance controls are a new feature to me. im coming from a dsr250 that I put over 1500 hours on. being new to this im hoping someone can give me some liks or advice on what all those setting actually do. I've got pp1 and pp2 set to boost the black gamma and pp1 all +7 and pp2 all +3. the more gain used the more the picture looks soft so I've limited the gain to +9. I have bought vortexmedia's video but he dosn't cover low light very much and many of the settings he uses would never work under my circumstances. remember I'm doing all night footage so im working with only street lights and car lights.

August 21st, 2008, 04:00 AM	#101
David Arendt Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bereldange, Luxembourg Posts: 41	Z7 softer than FX1 in lowlight (aperture 1.6) ? Hi, We are using 2 FX1s and recently bought a Z7. I discovered that in low light situations, the Z7 is softer than the FX1. Artificial sharpness is set to the default on both camcorders. Even going setting it higher on the Z7, the Z7 is softer. The 2 cameras have been on full manual, aperture 1.6 on both, gain on 18db on the FX1 and on 9db on the Z7 in order to match brightness of both images. If I go higher then F4, the Z7 seems to start becoming less soft than the FX1. I tried automatic lens flange adjustment, even in a big room, with just a wall and the focus chart on it in order to be sure no other objects in the field of view influence auto adjustment. Also conerning manual adjustement, has someone already done it ? I tried it and for the Tele end, it is very simple but for the wide end, I don't see any difference ? Bye, David Arendt

August 22nd, 2008, 07:47 AM	#102
Ian Campbell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Toronto, ON Canada Posts: 141	If you have the Vortex video for the Z7U, there are some nice, crisp and noise free examples of night shooting. Check out the part of the video where "slow shutter" is both talked about with some examples shown -- this might be helpful. I've done night work also, and the Z7U can do a great job at producing really good night shots with practically no noise. The use of gain as high as +9 was too high for me in shooting nights (with lots of darks). I used 0db and had great results. You will need to do a night test and try different settings to test for the right exposure. The three I needed to play with mostly were iris, shutter speed and gain. For gain I tried -3db, 0db and +3db. Since you are shooting at night it's hard to know where to expose unless you do a test and keep a record of your settings when viewing footage. I ended up keeping my iris open (somewhere around f.2) and used 0db gain and shot at 1/30th. For me to achive the best result so that night really LOOKED like night meant that I had to aviod overexposing -- I found the use of the histogram, etc. is difficult to get the perfect exposure that I was looking for in night exterior shots. Also, the black gamma setting if you adjust too far from default (with a lot of blacks in your footage) might look a little milky or just not quite right. I keep mine at either the default or at -1. Also, since you have the Z7U Vortex title, have another look at the picture profiles chapter. There is some good advice about using the profiles to the user's advantage. If you find a profile that you like, use it . . . and if it's not quite right, simply give it a tweak to get the result you want. Since a lot of the profiles handle blacks differently, you might try testing at night with the camera's on-board pic profile settings combined with exposer settings. Keep good notes and you should be good to go. Good luck with the night work. Ian Last edited by Ian Campbell; August 22nd, 2008 at 07:49 AM. Reason: pasted text not needed in my reply

August 23rd, 2008, 04:46 AM	#103
Tom Cznarty New Boot Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New York Posts: 6	Has anyone rated the ISO of the Z7U I will be shooting with the Z7u this coming week and I am interested in what the ISO rating would be for the Z7u especially in 24P. I've shot a great deal with the V1 and have that rated at 250.

August 24th, 2008, 10:45 PM	#105
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	Sony Z7 Capture Hi Everyone, I have a friend who has recorded a whole lot of footage on a Sony Z7 in 25P mode onto tape. I was just wondering how you go about capturing this footage, as they no longer have access to the camera. We have tried capturing it using a number of the Sony VTR decks, but they all just flash a "Wrong Format" error. Can you capture footage from the Z7 using a Z1P? As far as I'm aware, the 25P footage is recorded to a 1080i time-line anyway, so it should work? When you fast forward the footage on the Sony decks you can see the footage - so I know the deck SHOULD be able to read it. I presume there is just some kind of "meta data" on the tape that tells the deck that it's "progressive" even though its recorded as 1080i. Do you have to use a Z7 to capture Z7 footage? Are there any workarounds? Thanks for your time! Chris!