2 new Sony HDV cams with interchangeable lens

Piotr Wozniacki · September 9th, 2007, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Utley

Not to mention investing in 1/3" lenses.

Well, according to the preliminary info on the Sony Europe site:

"The handheld camcorder is supplied with an interchangeable HD Carl Zeiss lens with 1/3” bayonet joint mechanism, allowing the flexibility of attaching existing 2/3” or 1/2” lenses with a standard lens adaptor. Lenses from the popular Digital SLR – a System from Sony can also be used with a special adaptor."

So you can use even 2/3" lens with it!

Chris Hurd · September 9th, 2007, 01:02 PM

Using a lens which creates an image circle larger than intended for the camera's image sensor (i.e., a 2/3rd-inch lens and a 1/3rd-inch sensor) will result in a crop factor which increases the effective field of view of that lens. Which is fine if you need a longer focal length, but problematic if you want a wide field of view.

Piotr Wozniacki · September 9th, 2007, 01:13 PM

I get your point, Chris - but since the same possibility is planned for the real pro, shoulder-mount "brother", I guess the move has been deeply thought through by Sony engineers.

Lawrence Bansbach · September 9th, 2007, 02:03 PM

Aside from enabling choice among third- and half-inch lenses, lens interchangeability also makes possible DOF adapters with simpler relay lenses, which I assume, would reduce light loss.

Scott Shama · September 9th, 2007, 03:21 PM

Very cool cameras...can't wait!

Scott

Heath McKnight · September 9th, 2007, 04:22 PM

The Z1u has been around for over 2 1/2 years now. I could see this camera replacing both it and the V1u.

heath

Gareth Watkins · September 10th, 2007, 01:25 PM

Hi there

this camera has answered a number of issues for me...and also answers a question I asked on here a year or so back....when and HD DSR 250?
What does it offer me?
1) I prefer the shoulder format. The Z1 is a heavy & unbalanced beast made worse by matte box and mic. Shoulder support only goes part way to helping.
2) As its HDV my current editing set up will handle it.
3) While I like the form of the new tapeless Xdcam EX..it raises a number of issues I'm not sure I'lm ready for just yet..ie. a)lack of compatibility with (my) NLE system, In fact I'm already struggling to handle HDV on my Pc's... b)Need for large capacity back up hard drives (already I have a hard job managing the large files, I've 2To's of HD already) c) also the cost and small capacity of the SxS cards. 16go is small and expensive .. prices will come down.. but...
4) Large format looks more professional... a problem with the Z1 is people often don't take it seriously.. this does count with clients as many will have found.
5) Better connectivity...
6) Interchangeable lenses is an optional..
7) For the time being HDV is more than enough resolution... SD is not dead yet and it will be a few years before your average user has any regular HD set up...
So while the Xdcam looks superb.. I really don't want another handycam.. I guess this is the bottom line. I can't affiord a full size Xdcam, and have been forced to by a Z1 for my needs. The DSR250 would have been a choice but lack of 16:9 and no HDV made it a non starter...

It has to be said that while we are now going to be swamped with choice of format and form over the last two years the choice has been very limited for the entry pro market, for me the Z1 was the only viable choice...

cheers

Gareth

Brian Standing · September 10th, 2007, 03:48 PM

Both of these cameras are labelled as "Professional HDV." Does that refer to any changes in the codec, or just to things like interchangeable lenses and XLR inputs?

Also, I see the 25p frame rate, but no mention of 30p or 24p. Are these cams PAL only?

Any idea on size/weight of the handycam?

Andrew Kimery · September 10th, 2007, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Standing

Both of these cameras are labelled as "Professional HDV." Does that refer to any changes in the codec, or just to things like interchangeable lenses and XLR inputs?

Just marketing speak. The same way that Apple says iMovie has "professional quality" transitions.

-A

Brian Standing · September 16th, 2007, 07:21 AM

I'll be curious to see the image quality and low-light sensitivity of a 3-chip 1/3" CMOS camera. Have we seen multiple 1/3" CMOS chips before? Is it fair to assume that this camera's image quality will be better than the V1, but poorer than the XDCAM EX?

I'm also going to be curious about size and weight of the handycam. It looks nice and compact, but I can't tell how big that lens is. Wouldn't one of these babies and an HDMI version of Convergent Designs Flash XDR be a nice pairing?

It seems like Sony is slicing their prosumer market into mighty narrow segments.

A thought: are these the last two tape-based cameras Sony will ever produce (at least in this market segment)?

Heath McKnight · September 16th, 2007, 09:34 AM

Bigger sensors always give better signal-to-noise ratio, so the EX is a plus. But the interchangeable lenses are exciting! I also wonder about these being the last tape-based cameras; we certainly are moving towards HDD, DVD (SD, Blu-Ray, etc.), Flash, etc.

heath

Gints Klimanis · October 3rd, 2007, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Standing

I'll be curious to see the image quality and low-light sensitivity of a 3-chip 1/3" CMOS camera. Have we seen multiple 1/3" CMOS chips before? Is it fair to assume that this camera's image quality will be better than the V1, but poorer than the XDCAM EX?

?

Somewhere, I saw a zoom in picture of this camera with a 6 Megapixel label near the lens. That's kinda weird on a camera in this market segment because the photosites are smaller. So, unless we see Sony literature reading "three 1/3 sensors", we should just wait. I'll assume its one RGB Bayer sensor.

What I'd like to see is one of those DSLR sensors in a camcorder.

Ron Evans · October 3rd, 2007, 07:21 PM

I think you may be confusing these new cameras mentioned on the European site
http://www.sonybiz.net/biz/view/Show...site=biz_en_GB
With this camera
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=102492
which looks like a repackaged HC7 in shoulder mount which of course would have a 6Megapixel still feature.

Ron Evans

Jack Zhang · October 4th, 2007, 02:23 AM

That has non-interchangeable lens.

Paul Ramsbottom · October 12th, 2007, 05:41 PM

Just some idle speculation / Friday afternoon time-wasting:

I guess it starts when Sony says "HDMI output – uncompressed HD signal and embedded audio can be output to HDMI-compatible devices." I wonder what that really means?

Thoughts anyone?

It would be great to connect this to one of the much anticipated Convergent Design Flash XDR recorders (yes, I know the 1.0 version is SDI only, but there is a $400 adapter).

Wouldn't it be wonderful If Sony would sell just the Body, so you could combine it with a good quality compact 35mm adapter, one with flip and minimal light loss like the Mini35 or even the new Letus Extreme for the more budget conscious. I hear that only takes half a stop.

Lens-wise, one of the new RED cine zooms would be nice (or both) or some used cine primes or even just some manual 35mm still lenses.

Combine this with a moderately-priced set of rails, a FF and mattebox from someone like Cavision.

To me this would be a really great cinema-look set-up

1. The uncomprssed feed from the Sony body. Probably looking at $4,500
2. Great storage option from Convergent, admittedly @ $5,400
3. $1,200 - $5,500 for a good 35MM adapter
4. $6,500 for the 18-50mm RED zoom, as an example, as it is the least $.
5. $1,500 for rails, MB and FF

Should be a really high quality, compact and reliable rig. I've used 35mm adapters before, and struggled with the overall length, back focus etc. I'd like something I could really 'run and gun' with cinema-style, like it was one of those shoulder-mounted 35mm Arris.

Not intended to be a budget system, and it will come it at about the cost of a RED body.

Thoughts on whether this would be a tempting set-up, or are there other combos out ther that would deliver the same or better for less $$$.

Maybe the pocket RED will fill this gap

September 9th, 2007, 01:02 PM	#32
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Using a lens which creates an image circle larger than intended for the camera's image sensor (i.e., a 2/3rd-inch lens and a 1/3rd-inch sensor) will result in a crop factor which increases the effective field of view of that lens. Which is fine if you need a longer focal length, but problematic if you want a wide field of view. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

September 9th, 2007, 01:13 PM	#33
Piotr Wozniacki Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 4,086	I get your point, Chris - but since the same possibility is planned for the real pro, shoulder-mount "brother", I guess the move has been deeply thought through by Sony engineers. __________________ Sony PXW-FS7 \| DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive

September 9th, 2007, 04:22 PM	#36
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	The Z1u has been around for over 2 1/2 years now. I could see this camera replacing both it and the V1u. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

September 10th, 2007, 03:48 PM	#38
Brian Standing Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 621	Both of these cameras are labelled as "Professional HDV." Does that refer to any changes in the codec, or just to things like interchangeable lenses and XLR inputs? Also, I see the 25p frame rate, but no mention of 30p or 24p. Are these cams PAL only? Any idea on size/weight of the handycam? __________________ http://www.prolefeedstudios.com/blog/ Documentary for the masses!

September 16th, 2007, 07:21 AM	#40
Brian Standing Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 621	I'll be curious to see the image quality and low-light sensitivity of a 3-chip 1/3" CMOS camera. Have we seen multiple 1/3" CMOS chips before? Is it fair to assume that this camera's image quality will be better than the V1, but poorer than the XDCAM EX? I'm also going to be curious about size and weight of the handycam. It looks nice and compact, but I can't tell how big that lens is. Wouldn't one of these babies and an HDMI version of Convergent Designs Flash XDR be a nice pairing? It seems like Sony is slicing their prosumer market into mighty narrow segments. A thought: are these the last two tape-based cameras Sony will ever produce (at least in this market segment)? __________________ http://www.prolefeedstudios.com/blog/ Documentary for the masses! Last edited by Brian Standing; September 16th, 2007 at 07:59 AM.

September 9th, 2007, 02:03 PM	#34
Lawrence Bansbach Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 295	Aside from enabling choice among third- and half-inch lenses, lens interchangeability also makes possible DOF adapters with simpler relay lenses, which I assume, would reduce light loss.

September 9th, 2007, 03:21 PM	#35
Scott Shama Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 399	Very cool cameras...can't wait! Scott

September 10th, 2007, 01:25 PM	#37
Gareth Watkins Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: France Posts: 578	Hi there this camera has answered a number of issues for me...and also answers a question I asked on here a year or so back....when and HD DSR 250? What does it offer me? 1) I prefer the shoulder format. The Z1 is a heavy & unbalanced beast made worse by matte box and mic. Shoulder support only goes part way to helping. 2) As its HDV my current editing set up will handle it. 3) While I like the form of the new tapeless Xdcam EX..it raises a number of issues I'm not sure I'lm ready for just yet..ie. a)lack of compatibility with (my) NLE system, In fact I'm already struggling to handle HDV on my Pc's... b)Need for large capacity back up hard drives (already I have a hard job managing the large files, I've 2To's of HD already) c) also the cost and small capacity of the SxS cards. 16go is small and expensive .. prices will come down.. but... 4) Large format looks more professional... a problem with the Z1 is people often don't take it seriously.. this does count with clients as many will have found. 5) Better connectivity... 6) Interchangeable lenses is an optional.. 7) For the time being HDV is more than enough resolution... SD is not dead yet and it will be a few years before your average user has any regular HD set up... So while the Xdcam looks superb.. I really don't want another handycam.. I guess this is the bottom line. I can't affiord a full size Xdcam, and have been forced to by a Z1 for my needs. The DSR250 would have been a choice but lack of 16:9 and no HDV made it a non starter... It has to be said that while we are now going to be swamped with choice of format and form over the last two years the choice has been very limited for the entry pro market, for me the Z1 was the only viable choice... cheers Gareth

September 16th, 2007, 09:34 AM	#41
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Bigger sensors always give better signal-to-noise ratio, so the EX is a plus. But the interchangeable lenses are exciting! I also wonder about these being the last tape-based cameras; we certainly are moving towards HDD, DVD (SD, Blu-Ray, etc.), Flash, etc. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

October 3rd, 2007, 07:21 PM	#43
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,222	I think you may be confusing these new cameras mentioned on the European site http://www.sonybiz.net/biz/view/Show...site=biz_en_GB With this camera http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=102492 which looks like a repackaged HC7 in shoulder mount which of course would have a 6Megapixel still feature. Ron Evans

October 4th, 2007, 02:23 AM	#44
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	That has non-interchangeable lens.

October 12th, 2007, 05:41 PM	#45
Paul Ramsbottom Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 85	Just some idle speculation / Friday afternoon time-wasting: I guess it starts when Sony says "HDMI output – uncompressed HD signal and embedded audio can be output to HDMI-compatible devices." I wonder what that really means? Thoughts anyone? It would be great to connect this to one of the much anticipated Convergent Design Flash XDR recorders (yes, I know the 1.0 version is SDI only, but there is a $400 adapter). Wouldn't it be wonderful If Sony would sell just the Body, so you could combine it with a good quality compact 35mm adapter, one with flip and minimal light loss like the Mini35 or even the new Letus Extreme for the more budget conscious. I hear that only takes half a stop. Lens-wise, one of the new RED cine zooms would be nice (or both) or some used cine primes or even just some manual 35mm still lenses. Combine this with a moderately-priced set of rails, a FF and mattebox from someone like Cavision. To me this would be a really great cinema-look set-up 1. The uncomprssed feed from the Sony body. Probably looking at $4,500 2. Great storage option from Convergent, admittedly @ $5,400 3. $1,200 - $5,500 for a good 35MM adapter 4. $6,500 for the 18-50mm RED zoom, as an example, as it is the least $. 5. $1,500 for rails, MB and FF Should be a really high quality, compact and reliable rig. I've used 35mm adapters before, and struggled with the overall length, back focus etc. I'd like something I could really 'run and gun' with cinema-style, like it was one of those shoulder-mounted 35mm Arris. Not intended to be a budget system, and it will come it at about the cost of a RED body. Thoughts on whether this would be a tempting set-up, or are there other combos out ther that would deliver the same or better for less $$$. Maybe the pocket RED will fill this gap