How much longer to keep the Z5?

Leslie Wand · December 7th, 2011, 12:31 AM

yes, please do ;-)

it's been my experience over the years that most cameras in any particular class can be capable of giving stunning pics GIVEN the right lighting, etc.,

this held true in the days of analogue, and now digital.

the 'wow' factor usually comes with GOOD glass and bigger sensors, both of which cost proportionally more than the camera in the class below.

i've also read people praising avchd over hdv - to all intents and purposes they are simply codecs recording 0's + 1's, and not like betacam vs vhs.

Dave Burckhard · December 7th, 2011, 06:16 PM

As long as it keeps on ticking, I'm sticking.
Since day one, I've used and recorded to a Focus Enhancements HDD recorder. It gives me redundancy and a much faster workflow. The tape, then, is just a backup. Having gotten used to that and with falling prices, I will probably get an HDMI recorder like a Convergent or Atomos. The price for the units, from $1200 to $1500 and I get an even better image, tapeless or driveless media, a redundant backup and fast workflow. You would have to spend much more to get the same features and abilities. Again, when you use a tapeless acquisition, the tape becomes the backup. All you have to do is lose a flash card or get a corrupted file and you'll understand immediately the value of redundancy.

I've grown to really like the 20x range of the lens which I don't have to change and, therefore, doesn't present back-focus problems or sensor contamination.

Certainly any new camera I'll have to consider but I've been shooting stuff on a DSLR which provides great B-roll. It seems a camera "upgrade" is the least of worries these days.

Dave

Chris Duczynski · December 8th, 2011, 12:07 AM

Is there much difference in quality between recording to MRC1 and via HDMI to a HDD like Atomos?
Would you get both? I already have the MRC! and pics are very sharp and clean.

Leslie Wand · December 8th, 2011, 02:38 AM

me too?

as chris asks, how much 'better' is hdmi output. is it chalk and cheese, or simply specs?

Adam Gold · December 8th, 2011, 11:44 AM

My understanding is the resolution is the same, but the color depth isn't. It's uncompressed. Helpful if you are doing a lot of grading in post. Otherwise useless.

David Johns · December 8th, 2011, 12:08 PM

I don't believe the resolution is the same (MRC1K vs HDMI). The MRC1K simply records whatever comes out of the Firewire port which is either standard-def DV, or 1440x1080 HDV (with a 1.3333 pixel aspect ratio to make a 16:9 image).

The output of the HDMI port however is true 1920x1080 straight off the camera's sensors hence is higher res and well as better colour.

What you then record that output on will determine if the recording is better than a file from the MRC1K

Regards
Dave

Adam Gold · December 8th, 2011, 12:20 PM

The chip in the Z5 isn't capable of 1920 x 1080. It's 1440. Page 129 (126 for the Z5E).

Which by the way is also true for the NX5.

Chris Duczynski · December 8th, 2011, 03:29 PM

So would you say the difference is negligible?
I suppose the final display would also play a part - if it was for broadcast or lets say cinema release. If it's for corprporate or webmedia, would you see any difference ?

Les Wilson · December 8th, 2011, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Gold

The chip in the Z5 isn't capable of 1920 x 1080. It's 1440. Page 129 (126 for the Z5E).

Which by the way is also true for the NX5.

Adam, I don't see this about the NX5 on the Sony product page. Where did you see that the NX5 is 1440x1080?

Mark Goodsell · December 8th, 2011, 10:44 PM

These are the different recording rates for the NX5U from the B&H specifications page:

AVCHD FX (24Mbps) 1920 x 1080/60i
AVCHD FH (17Mbps) 1920 x 1080/60i
AVCHD HQ (9Mbps) 1440 x 1080/60i
AVCHD LP (5Mbps) 1440 x 1080/60i
AVCHD FX (24Mbps) 1920 x 1080/24p
AVCHD FH (17Mbps) 1920 x 1080/24p
AVCHD FX (24Mbps) 1920 x 1080/30p
AVCHD FH (17Mbps) 1920 x 1080/30p
AVCHD FX (24Mbps) 1280 x 720/60p
AVCHD FH (17Mbps) 1280 x 720/60p
MPEG2 SD HQ (9Mbps) 720 x 480/60i
MPEG2 SD HQ (9Mbps) 720 x 480/60i (24p Scan)
MPEG2 SD HQ (9Mbps) 720 x 480/60i (30p Scan)

Adam Gold · December 9th, 2011, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les Wilson

Adam, I don't see this about the NX5 on the Sony product page. Where did you see that the NX5 is 1440x1080?

Read the specs in the manual. There aren't enough pixels on the chip to actually be 1920 x 1080. It's roughly the same as the Z5, which is 1440 x 810. I'm sure you can upscale or interpolate the data to simulate those resolutions, but they're not coming natively off the chip, based on the way it's been explained to me.

But I could be completely misunderstanding how these magic boxes work.

Leslie Wand · December 9th, 2011, 03:11 AM

to confirm adam's pixel count:

Imaging device: 3-chip 1/3-inch type Exmor CMOS with ClearVid pixel array
Effective picture elements: Approx. 1,037,000 pixels with ClearVid array

about half full hd

David Johns · December 9th, 2011, 11:44 AM

I stand corrected and apologise for the duff info.

Regards
Dave

Mark Goodsell · December 9th, 2011, 12:53 PM

Adam, did you mean 1440 x 1080?

Adam Gold · December 9th, 2011, 01:58 PM

No. The manual says 1440 x 810.

December 7th, 2011, 12:31 AM	#16
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	Re: How much longer to keep the Z5? yes, please do ;-) it's been my experience over the years that most cameras in any particular class can be capable of giving stunning pics GIVEN the right lighting, etc., this held true in the days of analogue, and now digital. the 'wow' factor usually comes with GOOD glass and bigger sensors, both of which cost proportionally more than the camera in the class below. i've also read people praising avchd over hdv - to all intents and purposes they are simply codecs recording 0's + 1's, and not like betacam vs vhs. __________________ www.lesliewand.com.au

December 7th, 2011, 06:16 PM	#17
Dave Burckhard Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 73	Re: How much longer to keep the Z5? As long as it keeps on ticking, I'm sticking. Since day one, I've used and recorded to a Focus Enhancements HDD recorder. It gives me redundancy and a much faster workflow. The tape, then, is just a backup. Having gotten used to that and with falling prices, I will probably get an HDMI recorder like a Convergent or Atomos. The price for the units, from $1200 to $1500 and I get an even better image, tapeless or driveless media, a redundant backup and fast workflow. You would have to spend much more to get the same features and abilities. Again, when you use a tapeless acquisition, the tape becomes the backup. All you have to do is lose a flash card or get a corrupted file and you'll understand immediately the value of redundancy. I've grown to really like the 20x range of the lens which I don't have to change and, therefore, doesn't present back-focus problems or sensor contamination. Certainly any new camera I'll have to consider but I've been shooting stuff on a DSLR which provides great B-roll. It seems a camera "upgrade" is the least of worries these days. Dave

December 8th, 2011, 12:07 AM	#18
Chris Duczynski Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: sydney Posts: 304	Re: How much longer to keep the Z5? Is there much difference in quality between recording to MRC1 and via HDMI to a HDD like Atomos? Would you get both? I already have the MRC! and pics are very sharp and clean.

December 8th, 2011, 02:38 AM	#19
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	Re: How much longer to keep the Z5? me too? as chris asks, how much 'better' is hdmi output. is it chalk and cheese, or simply specs? __________________ www.lesliewand.com.au

December 8th, 2011, 11:44 AM	#20
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Re: How much longer to keep the Z5? My understanding is the resolution is the same, but the color depth isn't. It's uncompressed. Helpful if you are doing a lot of grading in post. Otherwise useless. __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

December 8th, 2011, 12:08 PM	#21
David Johns Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Maidstone, Kent, UK Posts: 190	Re: How much longer to keep the Z5? I don't believe the resolution is the same (MRC1K vs HDMI). The MRC1K simply records whatever comes out of the Firewire port which is either standard-def DV, or 1440x1080 HDV (with a 1.3333 pixel aspect ratio to make a 16:9 image). The output of the HDMI port however is true 1920x1080 straight off the camera's sensors hence is higher res and well as better colour. What you then record that output on will determine if the recording is better than a file from the MRC1K Regards Dave __________________ www.tubeshooter.co.uk www.youtube.com/ukairscape and www.youtube.com/tubeshootermag

December 8th, 2011, 12:20 PM	#22
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Re: How much longer to keep the Z5? The chip in the Z5 isn't capable of 1920 x 1080. It's 1440. Page 129 (126 for the Z5E). Which by the way is also true for the NX5. __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."

December 8th, 2011, 03:29 PM	#23
Chris Duczynski Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: sydney Posts: 304	Re: How much longer to keep the Z5? So would you say the difference is negligible? I suppose the final display would also play a part - if it was for broadcast or lets say cinema release. If it's for corprporate or webmedia, would you see any difference ?

December 8th, 2011, 10:44 PM	#25
Mark Goodsell Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: WI Posts: 367	Re: How much longer to keep the Z5? These are the different recording rates for the NX5U from the B&H specifications page: AVCHD FX (24Mbps) 1920 x 1080/60i AVCHD FH (17Mbps) 1920 x 1080/60i AVCHD HQ (9Mbps) 1440 x 1080/60i AVCHD LP (5Mbps) 1440 x 1080/60i AVCHD FX (24Mbps) 1920 x 1080/24p AVCHD FH (17Mbps) 1920 x 1080/24p AVCHD FX (24Mbps) 1920 x 1080/30p AVCHD FH (17Mbps) 1920 x 1080/30p AVCHD FX (24Mbps) 1280 x 720/60p AVCHD FH (17Mbps) 1280 x 720/60p MPEG2 SD HQ (9Mbps) 720 x 480/60i MPEG2 SD HQ (9Mbps) 720 x 480/60i (24p Scan) MPEG2 SD HQ (9Mbps) 720 x 480/60i (30p Scan) __________________ Mark Goodsell

December 9th, 2011, 03:11 AM	#27
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	Re: How much longer to keep the Z5? to confirm adam's pixel count: Imaging device: 3-chip 1/3-inch type Exmor CMOS with ClearVid pixel array Effective picture elements: Approx. 1,037,000 pixels with ClearVid array about half full hd __________________ www.lesliewand.com.au

December 9th, 2011, 11:44 AM	#28
David Johns Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Maidstone, Kent, UK Posts: 190	Re: How much longer to keep the Z5? I stand corrected and apologise for the duff info. Regards Dave __________________ www.tubeshooter.co.uk www.youtube.com/ukairscape and www.youtube.com/tubeshootermag

December 9th, 2011, 12:53 PM	#29
Mark Goodsell Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: WI Posts: 367	Re: How much longer to keep the Z5? Adam, did you mean 1440 x 1080? __________________ Mark Goodsell

December 9th, 2011, 01:58 PM	#30
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Re: How much longer to keep the Z5? No. The manual says 1440 x 810. __________________ "It can only be attributable to human error... This sort of thing has cropped up before, and it has always been due to human error."