how does the fx1000 compare to the hmc 150 at DVinfo.net

John Sconiers · November 8th, 2009, 02:04 PM

I've been reading several threads and it looks like these two cameras continue to get good reviews for new buyers in their price range. Has anyone shot with a 150 and fx-1000 and can give me a head to head comparison?

Rob Morse · November 8th, 2009, 09:02 PM

I think there was an extensive conversation about it on this forum. You might want to try a search on it.

Jeff Harper · November 9th, 2009, 09:26 AM

I've owned both and run them side by side, and bottom line for me was the workflow for AVCHD stinks. Images from the Panasonic were VERY nice, truer and more pleasing in many respects but I deliver in SD, so the AVCHD is worthless to me after transcoding.

Differences in low light were negligible and a non-issue for me.

The onboard audio from the Panasonic was absolutely horrible, BTW. I find the onboard audio from the FX1000 is amazing and I rarelly need a shotgun mic.

If you're looking at the FX1000, don't forget the Z5. Well worth the extra money, I regret not buying one. You can go tapeless with it if you want. You can do the same with the FX1000, just not as simply.

Tape is not dead (yet), contrary to the rumours.

Jeff Harper · November 9th, 2009, 01:30 PM

Here are a couple of screen grabs taken from Vegas preview window. The most telling thing is to look at the tile in front of the altar, huge difference.

The FX1000 tends to have a more washed out look and weaker black, though these images don't show that well because of the subject matter. I loved the sharper contrast and truer black of the Panasonic. This is the last project I have with Panasonic footage. While it looked great, I wasn't willing to jump through the hoops necessary to deal with it.

In the below instances both images looked fine, but the FX1000 has more of an artificial warmth to it, which I have gotten used to now.

Rob Morse · November 9th, 2009, 08:35 PM

Jeff, just out of curiosity, have you messed with the picture profiles on the camera? There are a lot of different looks you can come up with.

Jeff Harper · November 9th, 2009, 08:42 PM

Actually Rob I haven't messed with the picture profiles. I have limited the auto gain which has resulted in better images in low light though.

Ron Wilber · November 9th, 2009, 10:23 PM

I find these profile settings will give you the best look:

gamma/color cinematone 2
Black Compress
color depth +3
wb shift 1-2

for low light you can use cinematone 1. I find the noise is acceptable up to 6db of gain with these settings.

Michael Dontigney · November 13th, 2009, 08:09 AM

I've been considering the FX1000. Not because it's easier to edit.. I actually LOVE the workflow of the HMC150 with CS4.1. It's easy, nearly full frame RT, and no capturing! (this is on a homebuilt i7 920@3.4ghz, 12gb DDR3, raid array.. swimming pool, movie stars). Sticking to HDV because of trouble editing to me is like sticking to DV because HDV was too hard to edit. Eventually the software/computers will catch up so it's a non-issue for me.

I assumed the FX1000 would have a sharper image over the HMC due to the Cmos sensors... Is that true or is it limited by the HDV codec and 1440X1080 rez?
I can also gett a great deal on a (barely) used FX1000 or a (also barely used) Z1... if given the choice which would you get? Z1 or FX1000 or HMC150?

Thx.

Jeff Harper · November 13th, 2009, 09:03 AM

That would be a tough choice for me, if AVCHD were not an issue. I do multicam almost exclusively, and AVCHD is very tough with 3 cameras.

The HMC150 has professional audio connectors, the FX1000 does not. You MUST run a good quality shotgun with the HMC 150, as the onboard audio is the worst I've ever heard. My consumer Canon camera has better audio than the HMC 150. The FX1000 has the best onboard audio I've ever heard.

The warranty on the HMC150 is not transferable, but the FX1000 is.

With my two FX1000s each had a defect. One has a bad mic jack, the other has chronic dropouts when shooting HD. One of them also has onboard audio issue where one channel drops down dramatically without warning. I'm not impressed with this aspect of the cameras. I got among the very first sold by b&H, so the quality control might be better on the newer ones.

The LCD of the Panasonic is old school low rez, where the FX1000 is high rez, but the LCD of the FX1000 cannot be trusted, and is particularly difficult to use outdoors.

I personally like the images of the Panasonic a lot. I firmly believe they are truer. Out of the box the blacks are truer and do not have the weird artificial warmth of the FX1000.

Images from both cameras are soft, IMO. When running at higher gain the Panasonic has less noise, but with the Sony you do not need as much gain, but the low light differences are minimal, IMO.

You are asking your questions in an FX1000 forum, so you can expect to get mostly biased answers leaning toward Sony, of course. Simply based on the pro audio of the Panasonic, I would to with the HMC 150 as it would be a better value.

In addition, if you like the workflow of AVCHD, that should seal the deal for you. If you buy the FX1000 you would likely regret not getting the Panasonic for this reason. To go tapeless with the Sony would require investing in an $800 recording unit.

Michael Dontigney · November 13th, 2009, 09:23 AM

I do like the fact that I can upgrade the FX1000 to tapeless if desired. That's cool. Here's my idea/plan... Buy either the FX1000 or HMC150 and then early next year buy a second equal/better camera. I really LOVE the EX1 and would love to make that my main cam with the HMC/FX1000 being a second cam.
So, if you had to chose knowing you would buy a second better cam, then would you go with the FX1000 for now and the EX1 later?
How about the Z1 I can get a great deal on? It's barely used (like.... lemme check: Threading 18X10)...

Thanks for the info... I too will be doing multicam, but figure it'll be easier by the spring for AVCHD with CS5 coming out with MUCH better AVCHD support and only being 64bit.

Jeff Harper · November 13th, 2009, 09:36 AM

You need to ask about this in the EX1 forum also to find which is a better match. That should be your primary concern, and I have no idea. The Sony FX1000 is CMOS as the EX1 is, so that would likely be a better match for you.

I would plan on having matching cams if it were me. Mismatched cams presents a whole host of issues.

Adam Gold · November 13th, 2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Dontigney

I can also gett a great deal on a (barely) used FX1000 or a (also barely used) Z1... if given the choice which would you get? Z1 or FX1000 or HMC150?

Can't comment on the Panny, and FX1000 vs. Z1 isn't exactly apples to apples because the Z1, being pro-level, will have more features. But having used both the FX1 (the baby Z1) and the FX1000, I can tell you I like the FX1000 much better. Much sharper picture than the FX1 (which would be identical on the Z1, since that part is the same) and there are many more controls on the FX1000 compared to the FX1. But the Z1 would have even more controls (i.e. External Record Control allowing more control of the MRC1k recording unit from the cam itself). The Z5, of course, seems to be the best of all worlds.

I think Jeff's mostly right on with his assessment of the FX1000, but he's the only one I've ever heard who doesn't think the FX1000 is blisteringly sharp. Doesn't mean he's wrong; that's just his experience of it. I know mine blows the socks off the FX1. And I've had no technical issues with mine, as Jeff has had with his.

Jeff Harper · November 13th, 2009, 03:58 PM

Like Adam I would pass on the Z1.

Michael Dontigney · November 13th, 2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Gold

Can't comment on the Panny, and FX1000 vs. Z1 isn't exactly apples to apples because the Z1, being pro-level, will have more features. But having used both the FX1 (the baby Z1) and the FX1000, I can tell you I like the FX1000 much better. Much sharper picture than the FX1 (which would be identical on the Z1, since that part is the same) and there are many more controls on the FX1000 compared to the FX1. But the Z1 would have even more controls (i.e. External Record Control allowing more control of the MRC1k recording unit from the cam itself). The Z5, of course, seems to be the best of all worlds.

I think Jeff's mostly right on with his assessment of the FX1000, but he's the only one I've ever heard who doesn't think the FX1000 is blisteringly sharp. Doesn't mean he's wrong; that's just his experience of it. I know mine blows the socks off the FX1. And I've had no technical issues with mine, as Jeff has had with his.

Thanks for the heads up... Lookin at the FX1000 more now.

John Beattie · December 6th, 2009, 09:19 PM

I got an fx1000 about 6 weeks ago and I really love it. I use manual settings essentially all the time so that I can get the best picture. I'm still learning as I experiment with the settings to get the look I perfer. The dv tapes are inexpensive so I can archive as much as I want.

November 8th, 2009, 02:04 PM	#1
John Sconiers Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Melrose Park Illinois Posts: 49	how does the fx1000 compare to the hmc 150 I've been reading several threads and it looks like these two cameras continue to get good reviews for new buyers in their price range. Has anyone shot with a 150 and fx-1000 and can give me a head to head comparison?

November 9th, 2009, 01:30 PM	#4
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Here are a couple of screen grabs taken from Vegas preview window. The most telling thing is to look at the tile in front of the altar, huge difference. The FX1000 tends to have a more washed out look and weaker black, though these images don't show that well because of the subject matter. I loved the sharper contrast and truer black of the Panasonic. This is the last project I have with Panasonic footage. While it looked great, I wasn't willing to jump through the hoops necessary to deal with it. In the below instances both images looked fine, but the FX1000 has more of an artificial warmth to it, which I have gotten used to now. Attached Thumbnails

November 13th, 2009, 09:36 AM	#11
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	You need to ask about this in the EX1 forum also to find which is a better match. That should be your primary concern, and I have no idea. The Sony FX1000 is CMOS as the EX1 is, so that would likely be a better match for you. I would plan on having matching cams if it were me. Mismatched cams presents a whole host of issues. Last edited by Jeff Harper; November 13th, 2009 at 11:37 AM.

November 8th, 2009, 09:02 PM	#2
Rob Morse Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 427	I think there was an extensive conversation about it on this forum. You might want to try a search on it.

November 9th, 2009, 09:26 AM	#3
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	I've owned both and run them side by side, and bottom line for me was the workflow for AVCHD stinks. Images from the Panasonic were VERY nice, truer and more pleasing in many respects but I deliver in SD, so the AVCHD is worthless to me after transcoding. Differences in low light were negligible and a non-issue for me. The onboard audio from the Panasonic was absolutely horrible, BTW. I find the onboard audio from the FX1000 is amazing and I rarelly need a shotgun mic. If you're looking at the FX1000, don't forget the Z5. Well worth the extra money, I regret not buying one. You can go tapeless with it if you want. You can do the same with the FX1000, just not as simply. Tape is not dead (yet), contrary to the rumours.

November 9th, 2009, 08:35 PM	#5
Rob Morse Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 427	Jeff, just out of curiosity, have you messed with the picture profiles on the camera? There are a lot of different looks you can come up with.

November 9th, 2009, 08:42 PM	#6
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Actually Rob I haven't messed with the picture profiles. I have limited the auto gain which has resulted in better images in low light though.

November 9th, 2009, 10:23 PM	#7
Ron Wilber Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 98	I find these profile settings will give you the best look: gamma/color cinematone 2 Black Compress color depth +3 wb shift 1-2 for low light you can use cinematone 1. I find the noise is acceptable up to 6db of gain with these settings.

November 13th, 2009, 08:09 AM	#8
Michael Dontigney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 103	I've been considering the FX1000. Not because it's easier to edit.. I actually LOVE the workflow of the HMC150 with CS4.1. It's easy, nearly full frame RT, and no capturing! (this is on a homebuilt i7 920@3.4ghz, 12gb DDR3, raid array.. swimming pool, movie stars). Sticking to HDV because of trouble editing to me is like sticking to DV because HDV was too hard to edit. Eventually the software/computers will catch up so it's a non-issue for me. I assumed the FX1000 would have a sharper image over the HMC due to the Cmos sensors... Is that true or is it limited by the HDV codec and 1440X1080 rez? I can also gett a great deal on a (barely) used FX1000 or a (also barely used) Z1... if given the choice which would you get? Z1 or FX1000 or HMC150? Thx.

November 13th, 2009, 09:03 AM	#9
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	That would be a tough choice for me, if AVCHD were not an issue. I do multicam almost exclusively, and AVCHD is very tough with 3 cameras. The HMC150 has professional audio connectors, the FX1000 does not. You MUST run a good quality shotgun with the HMC 150, as the onboard audio is the worst I've ever heard. My consumer Canon camera has better audio than the HMC 150. The FX1000 has the best onboard audio I've ever heard. The warranty on the HMC150 is not transferable, but the FX1000 is. With my two FX1000s each had a defect. One has a bad mic jack, the other has chronic dropouts when shooting HD. One of them also has onboard audio issue where one channel drops down dramatically without warning. I'm not impressed with this aspect of the cameras. I got among the very first sold by b&H, so the quality control might be better on the newer ones. The LCD of the Panasonic is old school low rez, where the FX1000 is high rez, but the LCD of the FX1000 cannot be trusted, and is particularly difficult to use outdoors. I personally like the images of the Panasonic a lot. I firmly believe they are truer. Out of the box the blacks are truer and do not have the weird artificial warmth of the FX1000. Images from both cameras are soft, IMO. When running at higher gain the Panasonic has less noise, but with the Sony you do not need as much gain, but the low light differences are minimal, IMO. You are asking your questions in an FX1000 forum, so you can expect to get mostly biased answers leaning toward Sony, of course. Simply based on the pro audio of the Panasonic, I would to with the HMC 150 as it would be a better value. In addition, if you like the workflow of AVCHD, that should seal the deal for you. If you buy the FX1000 you would likely regret not getting the Panasonic for this reason. To go tapeless with the Sony would require investing in an $800 recording unit.

November 13th, 2009, 09:23 AM	#10
Michael Dontigney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Atlanta, Ga. Posts: 103	I do like the fact that I can upgrade the FX1000 to tapeless if desired. That's cool. Here's my idea/plan... Buy either the FX1000 or HMC150 and then early next year buy a second equal/better camera. I really LOVE the EX1 and would love to make that my main cam with the HMC/FX1000 being a second cam. So, if you had to chose knowing you would buy a second better cam, then would you go with the FX1000 for now and the EX1 later? How about the Z1 I can get a great deal on? It's barely used (like.... lemme check: Threading 18X10)... Thanks for the info... I too will be doing multicam, but figure it'll be easier by the spring for AVCHD with CS5 coming out with MUCH better AVCHD support and only being 64bit.

November 13th, 2009, 03:58 PM	#13
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Like Adam I would pass on the Z1.

December 6th, 2009, 09:19 PM	#15
John Beattie New Boot Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Selden New York Posts: 17	I got an fx1000 about 6 weeks ago and I really love it. I use manual settings essentially all the time so that I can get the best picture. I'm still learning as I experiment with the settings to get the look I perfer. The dv tapes are inexpensive so I can archive as much as I want.