opinion please - v1 vs z5

Leslie Wand · November 7th, 2009, 03:28 AM

op here,

and agree entirely with adam, i'm learning a lot!

unfortunately my choice is limited to cameras that handle tape (as explained earlier), and with (unfortunately) as long a tele as possible; not by choice.

i spend half the year shooting race horses, not on the track but at studs, where they 'parade' (think models on a catwalk), and then paddock shots where they can run free. it's this latter that requires the long lens since the paddocks can be quite large, and the natural instinct of the horse is to get as far away from the camera as possible ;-)

the rest of the time i spend shooting / producing a range of projects for commercial clients, but mainly artist 'profiles' for various galleries and the like. this of course requires more often than not using the other end of the lens! and though the v1 is great for the horses, i had to buy a wa (i settled on the sony kit .8) to handle studio shots and the like.

i don't usually have to worry too much about low-light situations, though that said, there have been a couple of gallery floor walks with curators where i've had to live with the ambient lighting - which as you can imagine can be pretty awkward with spots on painting and low level elsewhere. this usually means i have to shoot paintings 'separate' from the talent, which isn't that much of a pain, though on occasions i've had the talent standing next to a painting and pointing out details - of course it's a compromise between correct exposure for painting under spot, or talent in the ambient.....

it would seem from what i've read that, other than a couple of stops, i wouldn't be gaining that much moving to a z5? (anyone care to comment on wa, ie, z5 without wa adaptor vs v1 with .8?)

either way, i really appreciate all your input,

thanks

leslie

Ed Quinto · November 7th, 2009, 04:12 AM

If you'd like i can do a sample on monday. I can screen grab, V1 and Z5 field of view + zoom.

Leslie Wand · November 7th, 2009, 05:02 AM

ed, that would be absolutely wonderful!

do you have wa on either camera? ad if so, would it be too much to ask for grabs with and without?

i think it's probably going to be the deciding factor in my choice (the price difference isn't that great), ie, zoom / wa. the bigger chips might give me a couple of stops, but as i wrote, that's really not that important - nor the dof, since i rarely need to throw anything out of focus!

leslie

Jeff Harper · November 7th, 2009, 05:13 AM

Adam has elaborated well the advantages of the Z5.

The chips in the V1 if the same as the V1/FX7, are not native 16:9, as I vaguely recall. The image from the cams has never looked right to me.

The bigger issue is you are wanting opinions on a 1/4" chip cam vs 1/3". There really is no comparison. The image in the Z5, etc. blows the 1/4" chips away in many circumstances. I have seen some footage shot with the FX7 that was very nice, but to achieve that quality of footage is much more difficult than if you begin with the larger chips.

This debate is similar to asking how the z5 compares to the EX1 as far as images go.

Wide angle adaptors are fine, but why lower the quality of your image further? Your already beginning with relatively borderline technology.

You can buy the Z5 from b and h and shoot with it and return it if necessary, but I highly doubt you would be unhappy. Instead you would wonder why you waited so long.

If you have the money for the new cam buy it. If you don't and/or what you are using is working, don't waste your money.

If quality is important, the Z5/Z7 is an obvious choice, IMO. When you see the downloaded images on your PC you will immediately see the difference and be very happy.

Ed Quinto · November 7th, 2009, 01:32 PM

I do not have a WA for either the V1 or Z5, only for the Z7. I can and the Z7 with and with out the WA into the mix if you'd like.

The V1 image looks fine especially if you are delivering SD. Anthony Bourdain's No Reservation used the V1 for at least one season. Global Gastronome: Shooting HD for " No Reservations"Jon Silberg, Jon Silberg, Jon Silberg
Yes, they now upgraded and Z7's now and yes it looks much, much better but the V1 looked fine. They also throw some Letus footage in there, I believe with a HVX.

Here is a project shot on the V1, the opening was shot from the local news helecopter's camera in DV but most of the shots were done with the V1, the rest being with a PD170 or A1.

Adam Gold · November 7th, 2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

The chips in the V1 if the same as the V1/FX7, are not native 16:9, as I vaguely recall.

No HDV cam is native 16:9, if by that you mean natively 1920 x 1080. (Well, maybe the Canons are: they list much higher pixel counts, although this might be meaningless marketing-speak.) All Sony HDV (tape) are 1440 wide with a PAR of 1.333.

The Z7, Z5 and V1 are all 1440 x 810, according to Sony, with an effective pixel count of 1,037,000 in 16:9 movie mode. If you want 1920 x 1080 you have to move up to the EX1. Or, ironically, down to their compact AVCHD Handycams.

Leslie Wand · November 7th, 2009, 04:48 PM

I do not have a WA for either the V1 or Z5, only for the Z7. I can and the Z7 with and with out the WA into the mix if you'd like.

appreciate the thought, but the z7 is a non-starter - my old pd170 with a 12x zoom just didn't cut it, hence my early adoption of hd!

The V1 image looks fine especially if you are delivering SD.

the horses for sure end up in sd / web. the rest of my work (especially artists) gets delivered on sd dvd along with both a HD mp4 for web, and m2t for pc / whatever.

Here is a project shot on the V1, the opening was shot from the local news helecopter's camera in DV but most of the shots were done with the V1, the rest being with a PD170 or A1.

nice - and looks good too.

i'd be more than happy just to see wide / tele on v1 vs z5.

oh, and can i split the audio? ie. adjust ONE input to both channels so i have auto level on one and manual on the other. the v1 doesn't allow for that - bugger!

leslie

Adam Gold · November 7th, 2009, 06:39 PM

The audio options on the Z5 are virtually limitless. The only time both channels are locked together is when you use the internal mic only. Any use of either INPUT allows you to set levels independently and to map either INPUT to either channel (well, almost -- I haven't found a way to send INPUT2 to CH1).

It'd probably be worth it for you to download the manual and spend some time reading about the options. It was a real eye-opener for me.

Ed Quinto · November 9th, 2009, 01:23 PM

V1 max wide. 20ft from subject 250w on subject, 500w filling the foreground. 0db gain 1.6.

z5 max wide. 20ft from subject 250w on subject, 500w filling the foreground. 0db gain 1.6.

Jeff Harper · November 9th, 2009, 01:34 PM

That is dramatic...

Ed Quinto · November 9th, 2009, 02:34 PM

V1 max zoom. 20ft from subject 250w on subject, 0db gain 2.8.

Z5 max zoom. 20ft from subject 250w on subject, 0db gain 3.4.

Jeff Harper · November 9th, 2009, 03:36 PM

That's what I'm talking about...is the correct choice here (when cash is not an issue) a no brainer or what?

Leslie Wand · November 10th, 2009, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Quinto

V1 max zoom. 20ft from subject 250w on subject, 0db gain 2.8.

Attachment 14912

Z5 max zoom. 20ft from subject 250w on subject, 0db gain 3.4.

Attachment 14913

ed, i can't thank you enough! and it just goes to prove jeff was right ;-)

many thanks again for your time and effort....

leslie

Stelios Christofides · November 10th, 2009, 12:35 PM

Thank God I bough the Z5!!!

Stelios

James Strange · November 14th, 2009, 04:40 PM

I have the Z5 and and FX7, Z5 blows the FX7 out of the water in every way imginable (except cost of course :) )

Z5! Z5! Z5!

November 7th, 2009, 05:13 AM	#19
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Adam has elaborated well the advantages of the Z5. The chips in the V1 if the same as the V1/FX7, are not native 16:9, as I vaguely recall. The image from the cams has never looked right to me. The bigger issue is you are wanting opinions on a 1/4" chip cam vs 1/3". There really is no comparison. The image in the Z5, etc. blows the 1/4" chips away in many circumstances. I have seen some footage shot with the FX7 that was very nice, but to achieve that quality of footage is much more difficult than if you begin with the larger chips. This debate is similar to asking how the z5 compares to the EX1 as far as images go. Wide angle adaptors are fine, but why lower the quality of your image further? Your already beginning with relatively borderline technology. You can buy the Z5 from b and h and shoot with it and return it if necessary, but I highly doubt you would be unhappy. Instead you would wonder why you waited so long. If you have the money for the new cam buy it. If you don't and/or what you are using is working, don't waste your money. If quality is important, the Z5/Z7 is an obvious choice, IMO. When you see the downloaded images on your PC you will immediately see the difference and be very happy. Last edited by Jeff Harper; November 7th, 2009 at 08:02 AM.

November 7th, 2009, 01:32 PM	#20
Ed Quinto Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 44	I do not have a WA for either the V1 or Z5, only for the Z7. I can and the Z7 with and with out the WA into the mix if you'd like. The V1 image looks fine especially if you are delivering SD. Anthony Bourdain's No Reservation used the V1 for at least one season. Global Gastronome: Shooting HD for " No Reservations"Jon Silberg, Jon Silberg, Jon Silberg Yes, they now upgraded and Z7's now and yes it looks much, much better but the V1 looked fine. They also throw some Letus footage in there, I believe with a HVX. Here is a project shot on the V1, the opening was shot from the local news helecopter's camera in DV but most of the shots were done with the V1, the rest being with a PD170 or A1. Hawaii: Hawaiian Studies 107 on Vimeo

November 9th, 2009, 01:23 PM	#24
Ed Quinto Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 44	V1 max wide. 20ft from subject 250w on subject, 500w filling the foreground. 0db gain 1.6. z5 max wide. 20ft from subject 250w on subject, 500w filling the foreground. 0db gain 1.6. Last edited by Ed Quinto; November 9th, 2009 at 02:34 PM.

November 10th, 2009, 12:35 PM	#29
Stelios Christofides Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Nicosia, CYPRUS Posts: 1,080	Thank God I bough the Z5!!! Stelios __________________ My Blog: http://steliosc.blogspot.com "I hope for nothing, I fear nothing, I am free" Nikos Kazantzakis

November 7th, 2009, 03:28 AM	#16
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	op here, and agree entirely with adam, i'm learning a lot! unfortunately my choice is limited to cameras that handle tape (as explained earlier), and with (unfortunately) as long a tele as possible; not by choice. i spend half the year shooting race horses, not on the track but at studs, where they 'parade' (think models on a catwalk), and then paddock shots where they can run free. it's this latter that requires the long lens since the paddocks can be quite large, and the natural instinct of the horse is to get as far away from the camera as possible ;-) the rest of the time i spend shooting / producing a range of projects for commercial clients, but mainly artist 'profiles' for various galleries and the like. this of course requires more often than not using the other end of the lens! and though the v1 is great for the horses, i had to buy a wa (i settled on the sony kit .8) to handle studio shots and the like. i don't usually have to worry too much about low-light situations, though that said, there have been a couple of gallery floor walks with curators where i've had to live with the ambient lighting - which as you can imagine can be pretty awkward with spots on painting and low level elsewhere. this usually means i have to shoot paintings 'separate' from the talent, which isn't that much of a pain, though on occasions i've had the talent standing next to a painting and pointing out details - of course it's a compromise between correct exposure for painting under spot, or talent in the ambient..... it would seem from what i've read that, other than a couple of stops, i wouldn't be gaining that much moving to a z5? (anyone care to comment on wa, ie, z5 without wa adaptor vs v1 with .8?) either way, i really appreciate all your input, thanks leslie

November 7th, 2009, 04:12 AM	#17
Ed Quinto Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 44	If you'd like i can do a sample on monday. I can screen grab, V1 and Z5 field of view + zoom.

November 7th, 2009, 05:02 AM	#18
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	ed, that would be absolutely wonderful! do you have wa on either camera? ad if so, would it be too much to ask for grabs with and without? i think it's probably going to be the deciding factor in my choice (the price difference isn't that great), ie, zoom / wa. the bigger chips might give me a couple of stops, but as i wrote, that's really not that important - nor the dof, since i rarely need to throw anything out of focus! leslie

November 7th, 2009, 04:48 PM	#22
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	I do not have a WA for either the V1 or Z5, only for the Z7. I can and the Z7 with and with out the WA into the mix if you'd like. appreciate the thought, but the z7 is a non-starter - my old pd170 with a 12x zoom just didn't cut it, hence my early adoption of hd! The V1 image looks fine especially if you are delivering SD. the horses for sure end up in sd / web. the rest of my work (especially artists) gets delivered on sd dvd along with both a HD mp4 for web, and m2t for pc / whatever. Here is a project shot on the V1, the opening was shot from the local news helecopter's camera in DV but most of the shots were done with the V1, the rest being with a PD170 or A1. nice - and looks good too. i'd be more than happy just to see wide / tele on v1 vs z5. oh, and can i split the audio? ie. adjust ONE input to both channels so i have auto level on one and manual on the other. the v1 doesn't allow for that - bugger! leslie

November 7th, 2009, 06:39 PM	#23
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	The audio options on the Z5 are virtually limitless. The only time both channels are locked together is when you use the internal mic only. Any use of either INPUT allows you to set levels independently and to map either INPUT to either channel (well, almost -- I haven't found a way to send INPUT2 to CH1). It'd probably be worth it for you to download the manual and spend some time reading about the options. It was a real eye-opener for me.

November 9th, 2009, 01:34 PM	#25
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	That is dramatic...

November 9th, 2009, 02:34 PM	#26
Ed Quinto Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 44	V1 max zoom. 20ft from subject 250w on subject, 0db gain 2.8. Z5 max zoom. 20ft from subject 250w on subject, 0db gain 3.4.

November 9th, 2009, 03:36 PM	#27
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	That's what I'm talking about...is the correct choice here (when cash is not an issue) a no brainer or what?

November 14th, 2009, 04:40 PM	#30
James Strange Major Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Glasgow, Scotland, UK Posts: 309	I have the Z5 and and FX7, Z5 blows the FX7 out of the water in every way imginable (except cost of course :) ) Z5! Z5! Z5!