MRC-1 missing frames at DVinfo.net

Rob Morse · June 5th, 2009, 10:41 AM

I'm having an issue where a couple of frames are missing from long clips. If I shoot an hour long service, every 21 minutes (this is not exact because I'm not in front of my computer) when the clip spits automatically it leaves a gap in audio and video. It looks like a jump cut and if someone happens to be speaking, lost audio. Is anyone else having this problem?
I called Sony and they told me to reset the unit but that hasn't helped. I've had the same problem whether I use the Sony utility program or just drag the files straight to my hard drive.

Bill Ackerman · June 5th, 2009, 01:01 PM

Rob,

I've only run one test with spanned files on my new MRC1. Throughout the test using a 300X UDMA CF card, I had the Z5 pointed at my iPhone running iSlate, which displays a running time sync that includes frame count. I can't say how accurate it is, but I was unable to detect any lost frames when dragging individual files into Premire Pro. Shooting 24P without tape. Maybe higher FPS would be more prone to the problem.

I have noticed about a one second frame loss at the end of any clip.

I'll be shooting more long footage this weekend and will closely examine the join point.

Rob Morse · June 5th, 2009, 02:39 PM

See if you can notice where it splits on it's own. I didn't notice it at first time because there was no audio and nobody was moving. I looked back and it is there as well.

Peter D. Parker · June 6th, 2009, 09:57 AM

Rob, I noticed this when I did a test.

I filmed for an hour using tape and card.

Loaded tape on to timeline and then imported SEPARATE clips from card (over 20mins will be split up into separate clips, so if you film 40mins you get 2 clips, 60 mins 3 clips)

When I loaded the SEPARATE clips on to timeline and lined them up in syn with the tape, there were a few frames missing from the beginning of each clip.

When I used the Sony utility, which joins the separated clips together, there were no missing frames and the stitched clips were in sync., so I suggest you use the Sony Utility and see if you get the same results.

Peter

Bill Ackerman · June 6th, 2009, 03:50 PM

OK, I just ran a test 3 times with the exact same results. I used iSlate so that the time sync display was unique in each frame (did a very nice job). I dragged the two files separately into the timeline of Premiere Pro. I then used the Sony Recording Unit in Windows to covert the two files into a single file. Results:

- No frames were lost at the start of recording
- No frames were lost at the end of recording
- Two frames were lost at the join point when joining separate files
- No frames are lost at the join point using the RU utility

So I guess my workflow will still involve directly dragging the separate files into my timeline unless those two frames at the join point are critical.

Rob Morse · June 6th, 2009, 05:18 PM

I got the same results with and without the utility. I shot again today and tried
re-formatting the CF cards before I shot. I'll try to get it loaded later and see what happens.

Tim Snyder · June 8th, 2009, 02:49 PM

We are having the same issue! We have a shoot this weekend so hopefully we can figure it out by then. If we do, I will let you all know.

Rob Morse · June 12th, 2009, 02:55 PM

Sadly, after resetting the unit and re-formatting the CF cards, same crap. At 21:42:28, there is a lapse in audio. I have imported the footage directly into my NLE and have used the Sony utility program with the same results. it is obviously an inherent problem with the unit. I could see someone overlooking the problem but I bet it will be there if you are taking long services. As long as you’re not shooting over 21 minutes I guess you’re okay. I guess I’ll be on the phone with Sony again.

Adam Gold · June 12th, 2009, 06:34 PM

You're not the first to have this issue, and in my opinion it is a major one. I mean, the whole *point* of this device is to shoot stuff longer than will fit on an hour tape, at least for me. But as long as these people keep insisting on the units only using FAT32, they're worthless in my book.

Otherwise I'd buy four tomorrow.

There are at least a couple of other threads about this in the MRC1 forum.

Rob Morse · June 12th, 2009, 09:00 PM

I spoke to someone at Sony today and he said something about a software upgrade being available. He's going to call me back Monday but it didn't sound like it would come as a firmware upgrade, It sounded as though the unit may have to be sent in. As soon as I have more info I'll pass it along.

Bill Ackerman · June 12th, 2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Morse

I spoke to someone at Sony today and he said something about a software upgrade being available. He's going to call me back Monday but it didn't sound like it would come as a firmware upgrade, It sounded as though the unit may have to be sent in. As soon as I have more info I'll pass it along.

I would find it astounding if the firmware couldn't be upgraded via the CF card. Even my $200 point & shoot camera can do that.

Rob Morse · June 13th, 2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ackerman

I would find it astounding if the firmware couldn't be upgraded via the CF card. Even my $200 point & shoot camera can do that.

That was the first question I asked and that is what he told me. Hopefully, I'll something Monday

Alex Chamberlain · June 16th, 2009, 02:44 PM

Rob,
Thanks for posting this up and doing so much of the footwork. I suspect there are a lot of people lurking around this topic waiting to see what you find out about the software upgrade. Please let us know if Sony has anything to say, and thanks again.

Rob Morse · June 16th, 2009, 03:50 PM

They never called me back and I've been so busy I forgot. I'll call again.

Greg Laves · June 16th, 2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ackerman

I dragged the two files separately into the timeline of Premiere Pro. I then used the Sony Recording Unit in Windows to covert the two files into a single file.

The ONLY way that I have been able to get the utility to work is if the files are still on the original CF card. My Sony utilty program will not even recognize anything at all, if the clips have been copied to any other drive or storage medium. I shot a ballet recently and each act was almost an hour long. I pulled the cards right out of the camera and ran everything through the utility. It worked perfectly. And when I went to put them on the timeline, 6 - 20+ minutes clips became 2 - 1 hour clips.

June 5th, 2009, 10:41 AM	#1
Rob Morse Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 427	MRC-1 missing frames I'm having an issue where a couple of frames are missing from long clips. If I shoot an hour long service, every 21 minutes (this is not exact because I'm not in front of my computer) when the clip spits automatically it leaves a gap in audio and video. It looks like a jump cut and if someone happens to be speaking, lost audio. Is anyone else having this problem? I called Sony and they told me to reset the unit but that hasn't helped. I've had the same problem whether I use the Sony utility program or just drag the files straight to my hard drive.

June 16th, 2009, 02:44 PM	#13
Alex Chamberlain Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Hurricane, UT Posts: 186	Rob, Thanks for posting this up and doing so much of the footwork. I suspect there are a lot of people lurking around this topic waiting to see what you find out about the software upgrade. Please let us know if Sony has anything to say, and thanks again. __________________ Get rid of the "Aspiring" in "Aspiring Filmmaker." Shoot it; you're a filmmaker. After that you're just negotiating your budget. (James Cameron paraphrased)

June 5th, 2009, 01:01 PM	#2
Bill Ackerman Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Rio Chango, Brazil Posts: 112	Rob, I've only run one test with spanned files on my new MRC1. Throughout the test using a 300X UDMA CF card, I had the Z5 pointed at my iPhone running iSlate, which displays a running time sync that includes frame count. I can't say how accurate it is, but I was unable to detect any lost frames when dragging individual files into Premire Pro. Shooting 24P without tape. Maybe higher FPS would be more prone to the problem. I have noticed about a one second frame loss at the end of any clip. I'll be shooting more long footage this weekend and will closely examine the join point.

June 5th, 2009, 02:39 PM	#3
Rob Morse Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 427	See if you can notice where it splits on it's own. I didn't notice it at first time because there was no audio and nobody was moving. I looked back and it is there as well.

June 6th, 2009, 09:57 AM	#4
Peter D. Parker Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Preston England Posts: 147	Rob, I noticed this when I did a test. I filmed for an hour using tape and card. Loaded tape on to timeline and then imported SEPARATE clips from card (over 20mins will be split up into separate clips, so if you film 40mins you get 2 clips, 60 mins 3 clips) When I loaded the SEPARATE clips on to timeline and lined them up in syn with the tape, there were a few frames missing from the beginning of each clip. When I used the Sony utility, which joins the separated clips together, there were no missing frames and the stitched clips were in sync., so I suggest you use the Sony Utility and see if you get the same results. Peter

June 6th, 2009, 03:50 PM	#5
Bill Ackerman Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Rio Chango, Brazil Posts: 112	OK, I just ran a test 3 times with the exact same results. I used iSlate so that the time sync display was unique in each frame (did a very nice job). I dragged the two files separately into the timeline of Premiere Pro. I then used the Sony Recording Unit in Windows to covert the two files into a single file. Results: - No frames were lost at the start of recording - No frames were lost at the end of recording - Two frames were lost at the join point when joining separate files - No frames are lost at the join point using the RU utility So I guess my workflow will still involve directly dragging the separate files into my timeline unless those two frames at the join point are critical.

June 6th, 2009, 05:18 PM	#6
Rob Morse Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 427	I got the same results with and without the utility. I shot again today and tried re-formatting the CF cards before I shot. I'll try to get it loaded later and see what happens.

June 8th, 2009, 02:49 PM	#7
Tim Snyder Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 188	We are having the same issue! We have a shoot this weekend so hopefully we can figure it out by then. If we do, I will let you all know.

June 12th, 2009, 02:55 PM	#8
Rob Morse Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 427	Sadly, after resetting the unit and re-formatting the CF cards, same crap. At 21:42:28, there is a lapse in audio. I have imported the footage directly into my NLE and have used the Sony utility program with the same results. it is obviously an inherent problem with the unit. I could see someone overlooking the problem but I bet it will be there if you are taking long services. As long as you’re not shooting over 21 minutes I guess you’re okay. I guess I’ll be on the phone with Sony again.

June 12th, 2009, 06:34 PM	#9
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	You're not the first to have this issue, and in my opinion it is a major one. I mean, the whole point of this device is to shoot stuff longer than will fit on an hour tape, at least for me. But as long as these people keep insisting on the units only using FAT32, they're worthless in my book. Otherwise I'd buy four tomorrow. There are at least a couple of other threads about this in the MRC1 forum.

June 12th, 2009, 09:00 PM	#10
Rob Morse Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 427	I spoke to someone at Sony today and he said something about a software upgrade being available. He's going to call me back Monday but it didn't sound like it would come as a firmware upgrade, It sounded as though the unit may have to be sent in. As soon as I have more info I'll pass it along.

June 16th, 2009, 03:50 PM	#14
Rob Morse Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 427	They never called me back and I've been so busy I forgot. I'll call again.