First impressions: FX1000 vs Panasonic HMC150

Jeff Harper · May 26th, 2009, 12:17 PM

Ken, that is remarkable. I was looking at a kit, of course. $1299, not bad. Very nice sounding camera.

Wacharapong Chiowanich · May 26th, 2009, 07:44 PM

Jeff, on the HV30 framegrab posted, is the focus a little off or is that as good as it gets for the camera. Based on those framegrabs alone, the FX1000 image appears to be superior to the other two's.

Wacharapong

Luc De Wandel · May 27th, 2009, 12:49 AM

Indeed, normally, the HV30 delivers a sharper image (see screengrab below). The biggest difference between the HV30 and the Z5 (or Z7, for that matter) is the washing out of bright objects, like the white shirt here. The dynamic range is not near as good as in the more expensive 3-chip camera's.

Ron Wilber · May 29th, 2009, 01:02 AM

camcorderinfo's review of the fx1000 claims that it destroys the XHA1 in sharpness.. which probably means it destroys the hv20/30 and hmc. It states "approximately 900 lw/ph and a vertical resolution of 800 lw/ph".

Do you find this to be true?

Also, camcorderinfo states that it;s low light is worse than the xha1, however, many people have claimed that it's low light is in fact better than the HMC..

do you find this to be true?

thanks!

Martyn Hull · May 29th, 2009, 01:33 AM

The trouble having avchd as the second cam is the footage has to be converted, to my mind shots can not be compared unless they are from the same distance and angle to the subjects.

Ken Ross · May 29th, 2009, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wilber

camcorderinfo's review of the fx1000 claims that it destroys the XHA1 in sharpness.. which probably means it destroys the hv20/30 and hmc. It states "approximately 900 lw/ph and a vertical resolution of 800 lw/ph".

Do you find this to be true?

Also, camcorderinfo states that it;s low light is worse than the xha1, however, many people have claimed that it's low light is in fact better than the HMC..

do you find this to be true?

thanks!

Ron, I don't have an XHA1, but I do have an HV20. The Z5 (FX1000) does have greater detail, but not to the extent that I'd say it 'destroys' the HV20. Where the Z5 does destroy the HV20, is in low-light. Simply no comparison. The same is true of color rendition, exposure latitude etc.

Jeff Harper · May 29th, 2009, 08:37 AM

Ken, how does the recording unit work for your Z5? I'm thinking of adding one onto to my FX1000.

By how does it work I'm asking literally how does it work? Are there cards involved or is is all self-contained? What kind of files do you get when capturing SD?

Ken Ross · May 29th, 2009, 10:01 AM

Jeff, the unit works well but does have a somewhat annoying 'lag' that you need to get used to. In other words (at least in the Z5 configuration), you hit 'record' on the camera and the card recording doesn't begin for about two seconds. So you need to anticipate your shots or simply keep it rolling.

I've found that faster cards reduce the lag time, but it's still there.

The card simply inserts into the reader once you open the door of the unit. Keep in mind the reader does reduce battery life (by nearly 20% or thereabouts). Although light, it does add a noticeable weight when attached to the rear of the Z5.

To be honest, I haven't shot with the unit in SD, but I believe the files are standard .avi.

Jeff Harper · May 29th, 2009, 10:03 AM

Thanks Ken. Are the cards expensive?

Ken Ross · May 29th, 2009, 10:33 AM

Jeff, no, they actually use pretty standard CF cards. You just need a high enough write speed.

Here's a typical example:
SanDisk | 4GB Extreme III CompactFlash Card | SDCFX3-004G-A31

Jeff Harper · May 29th, 2009, 11:40 AM

Thanks Ken.

Adam Gold · May 29th, 2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Ross

In other words (at least in the Z5 configuration), you hit 'record' on the camera and the card recording doesn't begin for about two seconds.

Note that it won't work this way on the FX1000 -- it doesn't have the "SYNCHRO" function. To record to the MRC, you must hit the "record" button on the CF unit, not the cam. Also note that while the unit integrates seamlessly into the Z5, to use it on the FX you need the bracket and FW cable. Not dealbreakers, certainly, but things to be aware of.

From the brochure:

"SYNCHRO mode
"When using camcorders that support external rec
control, such as the HVR-Z5U, HVR-V1U, HVR-Z1U,
DSR-450WS, DSR-400 and DSR-250, recording to the
HVR-MRC1 or HVR-DR60 is directly controlled by the
press of the camcorder’s rec start button.*3
*3 In this mode, a rec start delay of approximately 0.5 seconds
may occur after the camcorder rec start button is pressed.

"FOLLOW mode
"When using camcorders that do not support
external rec control, such as the HVR-A1U and
DSR-PD170, the FOLLOW mode can be used to start
and stop recording by the HVR-MRC1 or HVR-DR60.
In this mode, the HVR-MRC1 or HVR-DR60
periodically checks whether the camcorder is in rec
mode or not, and follows this status.*4
*4 In this mode, a rec start delay of up to 2 seconds may occur
after the camcorder rec start button is pressed."

My understanding is that the FX series supports neither mode, but I could, of course, be wrong.

http://ws.sel.sony.com/PIPWebService...re_Final08.pdf

Jeff Harper · May 29th, 2009, 09:14 PM

Thanks Adam, very important info you shared...

The files on the card are fat 32 and limited to 4gb each, right?

A friend of mine has two Hard disc drive recording units for sale (40GB each) and those sound like another good way to go to achieve a tapeless workflow. Upgrade those babies with 120GB HDs and it would be sweet.

What has happened is I have gotten a taste of the tapeless workflow thingy with my new HMC150, but am not at all in love with AVCHD. You need to rejoin the files, then transcode them, blah blah blah. It is an unlovely workflow. And yes I know about Cineform, but my first time with it on these AVCHD files the audio was a different length than the video.

On the other hand, I shoot primarily SD widescreen, and the Panasonic doesn't. The AVCHD puts a kink in my workflow. I dislike it enough that after a few nights of playing with these freakin files I am close to selling the camera less than a week after buying it, pro audio connections be damned. The footage looks good, but not THAT good.

I used the Panasonic as a back up cam for a half hour ceremony this evening and I'm not even going to bother to get the files off of the card.

Stelios Christofides · May 29th, 2009, 11:59 PM

Jeff I am not going to sound cynical or something but my advise is to sell both the FX1000 and the Panasonic (even if you loose some money) and get the Z5. I, (like you) soot SD widescreen at the moment and the combination of the Z5 and the MRC1 is just awesome!!!

Stelios

Jeff Harper · May 30th, 2009, 12:03 AM

Stelios, you are just determined to get me to buy a Z5, aren't you?

Well, you might be getting close! I'm going to be putting the Panasonic up for sale, and I might take your advice and do exactly what you say.

May 27th, 2009, 12:49 AM	#18
Luc De Wandel Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Knokke-Heist, Belgium Posts: 963	Indeed, normally, the HV30 delivers a sharper image (see screengrab below). The biggest difference between the HV30 and the Z5 (or Z7, for that matter) is the washing out of bright objects, like the white shirt here. The dynamic range is not near as good as in the more expensive 3-chip camera's. Attached Thumbnails

May 29th, 2009, 11:59 PM	#29
Stelios Christofides Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Nicosia, CYPRUS Posts: 1,080	Jeff I am not going to sound cynical or something but my advise is to sell both the FX1000 and the Panasonic (even if you loose some money) and get the Z5. I, (like you) soot SD widescreen at the moment and the combination of the Z5 and the MRC1 is just awesome!!! Stelios __________________ My Blog: http://steliosc.blogspot.com "I hope for nothing, I fear nothing, I am free" Nikos Kazantzakis

May 26th, 2009, 12:17 PM	#16
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Ken, that is remarkable. I was looking at a kit, of course. $1299, not bad. Very nice sounding camera.

May 26th, 2009, 07:44 PM	#17
Wacharapong Chiowanich Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 400	Jeff, on the HV30 framegrab posted, is the focus a little off or is that as good as it gets for the camera. Based on those framegrabs alone, the FX1000 image appears to be superior to the other two's. Wacharapong

May 29th, 2009, 01:02 AM	#19
Ron Wilber Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 98	camcorderinfo's review of the fx1000 claims that it destroys the XHA1 in sharpness.. which probably means it destroys the hv20/30 and hmc. It states "approximately 900 lw/ph and a vertical resolution of 800 lw/ph". Do you find this to be true? Also, camcorderinfo states that it;s low light is worse than the xha1, however, many people have claimed that it's low light is in fact better than the HMC.. do you find this to be true? thanks!

May 29th, 2009, 01:33 AM	#20
Martyn Hull Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: England Posts: 444	The trouble having avchd as the second cam is the footage has to be converted, to my mind shots can not be compared unless they are from the same distance and angle to the subjects.

May 29th, 2009, 08:37 AM	#22
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Ken, how does the recording unit work for your Z5? I'm thinking of adding one onto to my FX1000. By how does it work I'm asking literally how does it work? Are there cards involved or is is all self-contained? What kind of files do you get when capturing SD?

May 29th, 2009, 10:01 AM	#23
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	Jeff, the unit works well but does have a somewhat annoying 'lag' that you need to get used to. In other words (at least in the Z5 configuration), you hit 'record' on the camera and the card recording doesn't begin for about two seconds. So you need to anticipate your shots or simply keep it rolling. I've found that faster cards reduce the lag time, but it's still there. The card simply inserts into the reader once you open the door of the unit. Keep in mind the reader does reduce battery life (by nearly 20% or thereabouts). Although light, it does add a noticeable weight when attached to the rear of the Z5. To be honest, I haven't shot with the unit in SD, but I believe the files are standard .avi.

May 29th, 2009, 10:03 AM	#24
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Thanks Ken. Are the cards expensive?

May 29th, 2009, 10:33 AM	#25
Ken Ross Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,945	Jeff, no, they actually use pretty standard CF cards. You just need a high enough write speed. Here's a typical example: SanDisk \| 4GB Extreme III CompactFlash Card \| SDCFX3-004G-A31

May 29th, 2009, 11:40 AM	#26
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Thanks Ken.

May 29th, 2009, 09:14 PM	#28
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Thanks Adam, very important info you shared... The files on the card are fat 32 and limited to 4gb each, right? A friend of mine has two Hard disc drive recording units for sale (40GB each) and those sound like another good way to go to achieve a tapeless workflow. Upgrade those babies with 120GB HDs and it would be sweet. What has happened is I have gotten a taste of the tapeless workflow thingy with my new HMC150, but am not at all in love with AVCHD. You need to rejoin the files, then transcode them, blah blah blah. It is an unlovely workflow. And yes I know about Cineform, but my first time with it on these AVCHD files the audio was a different length than the video. On the other hand, I shoot primarily SD widescreen, and the Panasonic doesn't. The AVCHD puts a kink in my workflow. I dislike it enough that after a few nights of playing with these freakin files I am close to selling the camera less than a week after buying it, pro audio connections be damned. The footage looks good, but not THAT good. I used the Panasonic as a back up cam for a half hour ceremony this evening and I'm not even going to bother to get the files off of the card.

May 30th, 2009, 12:03 AM	#30
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Stelios, you are just determined to get me to buy a Z5, aren't you? Well, you might be getting close! I'm going to be putting the Panasonic up for sale, and I might take your advice and do exactly what you say.