Z5 CF card stops recording at DVinfo.net

Mark Batey · March 24th, 2009, 04:30 AM

Hi,

Trying out a Z5 for the first time the other day, I came across a problem which worried me a little. I was recording in DVcam onto tape and the CF card simultaneously, doing an interview which ran to around nine minutes. I used the CF card data for the edit, and was puzzled when the interview ran out at about six minutes. I went to the tape, and the interview was complete, all nine minutes of it. Neither the tape nor the CF card were anywhere near full at the time. All the rest of the data was fine on both media.

I've not been able to reproduce the fault.

I can't work out how this could have happened. Any ideas? And has anyone else experienced this?

Adam Gold · March 24th, 2009, 11:39 AM

Were there multiple files on the card? It's possible that the interview was broken into two files. The CF card unit uses FAT32, which is limited to a 2GB file size. Anything bigger than that gets broken into multiple files, which you should be able to stitch together in post.

Edit: My bad.... the limit is 4GB, which shouldn't cause the issue you describe. Should be about 18 min per file. But you still might check for multiple files anyway.

Greg Laves · March 24th, 2009, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Gold

the limit is 4GB, which shouldn't cause the issue you describe. Should be about 18 min per file. But you still might check for multiple files anyway.

I consistantly get about 21 1/2 minutes at the 4 gig limit so that should not have been an issue. Mark, how did you format the card?

Rob Morse · March 24th, 2009, 07:18 PM

This is exactly the reason I'm not ready to move 100% away from tape. Did you stop shooting at all or did you shoot continuously for the nine minutes?

Mark Batey · March 25th, 2009, 03:29 AM

I'm pretty sure I formatted the card in the card reader unit. Didn't stop recording during the interview (even though it was hand held and my arm was dropping off by the end... why can't directors work out what questions they're going to ask first?????????). And I don't think it was split into two files, I can only find the first part of the interview on the card.

Hmmm, as I thought, no easy answers to this one.

Greg Laves · March 25th, 2009, 06:31 AM

"Pretty sure" sounds like you might not always format in camera. I caused some of my own problems when I formatted the CF cards in a computer. Always format in the camera. ALWAYS. I am just trying to save you from making some of the mistakes that I have already made. No need in anyone else going through that.

Steve Renouf · March 25th, 2009, 12:02 PM

Just a thought... You don't mention the speed of the card - could it possibly be that it can't keep up with the data rate?

Mark Batey · March 27th, 2009, 05:03 AM

Thanks guys, maybe it was an issue about where it was formatted. It's a 133 speed card, as recommended, so I think it's up to the job.

Jon Goulden · March 27th, 2009, 08:11 PM

The CF recording unit takes longer to start up than tape. If you hit the record button too soon, the CF unit doesn't record. Now that I'm being more conscious of this (you can see the symbol in the viewfinder), I am not running into the problem of the CF unit not recording. I know that you said that you didn't turn recording off but the same thing was happening to me until I was more deliberate about start and stop. I wonder if there is some sort of button combo (maybe accidentally brushing the record button) that interrupts the CF but not the tape. This seems impossible but I was having the same issue with things on tape but not (or only partially) on CF for the first couple of shoots.

Adam Gold · March 31st, 2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Gold

Edit: My bad.... the limit is 4GB, which shouldn't cause the issue you describe. Should be about 18 min per file. But you still might check for multiple files anyway.

Not that this was the issue here, but it's interesting to note that the various tapeless recorders quote a 2GB limit for FAT32, although it is commonly referred to as 4GB elsewhere. Not sure which is correct.

Greg Laves · April 1st, 2009, 07:12 AM

FAT32 is definitely a 4 gig limit.

Adam Gold · April 1st, 2009, 01:28 PM

That's what I thought... but the Firestore website says their files are limited to 2GB. Can't figure it out.

Steve Renouf · April 2nd, 2009, 11:23 AM

Perhaps they're actually using FAT16 - that has a 2GB limit

March 24th, 2009, 04:30 AM	#1
Mark Batey Tourist Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, UK Posts: 3	Z5 CF card stops recording Hi, Trying out a Z5 for the first time the other day, I came across a problem which worried me a little. I was recording in DVcam onto tape and the CF card simultaneously, doing an interview which ran to around nine minutes. I used the CF card data for the edit, and was puzzled when the interview ran out at about six minutes. I went to the tape, and the interview was complete, all nine minutes of it. Neither the tape nor the CF card were anywhere near full at the time. All the rest of the data was fine on both media. I've not been able to reproduce the fault. I can't work out how this could have happened. Any ideas? And has anyone else experienced this?

March 24th, 2009, 11:39 AM	#2
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	Were there multiple files on the card? It's possible that the interview was broken into two files. The CF card unit uses FAT32, which is limited to a 2GB file size. Anything bigger than that gets broken into multiple files, which you should be able to stitch together in post. Edit: My bad.... the limit is 4GB, which shouldn't cause the issue you describe. Should be about 18 min per file. But you still might check for multiple files anyway. Last edited by Adam Gold; March 24th, 2009 at 12:16 PM.

March 24th, 2009, 07:18 PM	#4
Rob Morse Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 427	This is exactly the reason I'm not ready to move 100% away from tape. Did you stop shooting at all or did you shoot continuously for the nine minutes?

March 25th, 2009, 03:29 AM	#5
Mark Batey Tourist Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, UK Posts: 3	I'm pretty sure I formatted the card in the card reader unit. Didn't stop recording during the interview (even though it was hand held and my arm was dropping off by the end... why can't directors work out what questions they're going to ask first?????????). And I don't think it was split into two files, I can only find the first part of the interview on the card. Hmmm, as I thought, no easy answers to this one.

March 25th, 2009, 06:31 AM	#6
Greg Laves Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 640	"Pretty sure" sounds like you might not always format in camera. I caused some of my own problems when I formatted the CF cards in a computer. Always format in the camera. ALWAYS. I am just trying to save you from making some of the mistakes that I have already made. No need in anyone else going through that.

March 25th, 2009, 12:02 PM	#7
Steve Renouf Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Jersey, GB Posts: 182	Just a thought... You don't mention the speed of the card - could it possibly be that it can't keep up with the data rate?

March 27th, 2009, 05:03 AM	#8
Mark Batey Tourist Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, UK Posts: 3	Thanks guys, maybe it was an issue about where it was formatted. It's a 133 speed card, as recommended, so I think it's up to the job.

March 27th, 2009, 08:11 PM	#9
Jon Goulden Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: United States Posts: 32	The CF recording unit takes longer to start up than tape. If you hit the record button too soon, the CF unit doesn't record. Now that I'm being more conscious of this (you can see the symbol in the viewfinder), I am not running into the problem of the CF unit not recording. I know that you said that you didn't turn recording off but the same thing was happening to me until I was more deliberate about start and stop. I wonder if there is some sort of button combo (maybe accidentally brushing the record button) that interrupts the CF but not the tape. This seems impossible but I was having the same issue with things on tape but not (or only partially) on CF for the first couple of shoots.

April 1st, 2009, 07:12 AM	#11
Greg Laves Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 640	FAT32 is definitely a 4 gig limit.

April 1st, 2009, 01:28 PM	#12
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	That's what I thought... but the Firestore website says their files are limited to 2GB. Can't figure it out.

April 2nd, 2009, 11:23 AM	#13
Steve Renouf Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Jersey, GB Posts: 182	Perhaps they're actually using FAT16 - that has a 2GB limit