24p or 60i (was 24p or 24i?) at DVinfo.net

Franklin Bencosme · March 2nd, 2009, 06:14 PM

Any one opinions for this options?
Any pro and con ??

Thanks...Franklin

Craig Irving · March 2nd, 2009, 06:28 PM

Your question doesn't make any sense. Do you mean 24p or 60i?

If you do, many threads would come up in a search.

Franklin Bencosme · March 2nd, 2009, 06:53 PM

Hey sorry !!! yes my Question will be: Any opinions about
the pro an cons, to shoot in 24 progresive or 60i??

Craig Irving · March 2nd, 2009, 08:21 PM

Some people will give you a highly technical answer as to why shooting progressive is better, some people prefer it on aesthetic grounds. For me, it depends on the project.

I don't make it a steady rule to shoot purely at 24p. There are many times where I prefer to shoot 60i. Although, 30p is not a mode I shoot in often. It's probably good for web, but shooting 60i doesn't restrict you from delivering a 30p file anyway.

Really, there's uses for all 3 modes your camera offers. It's best just to go out there and shoot with each recording mode so you can get a sense of them and appreciate the nuances of each. Then you'll be properly able to decide which frame rate/mode you want to shoot a particular project in.

Good luck!

Franklin Bencosme · March 2nd, 2009, 09:12 PM

Thanks Craig for your coments!!
In my case I do weddings,and use a lot of slow motion
during the recap.
What about the slow motion in 24p?

Franklin...

Eric Darling · March 2nd, 2009, 11:00 PM

Progressive is good. In a world of ever-increasing convergence and progressive displays, why do you want to add interlacing artifacts? However, if your main interest is slow-motion, 24 frames is generally not considered high enough temporal resolution to pull it off well. 60p is really the way to go, and something that several current models across the spectrum offer (such as the EX1). But at least shoot in 30p in scenes where you know you're going slo-mo. The extra 6 frames each second will pay off.

Personally, I shoot nearly everything in 30p (I'm in NTSC land). It enables easy cross-over to SD video, and works quite well on the web (as stated earlier). Plus, the expense in terms of media is obviously half of most 60p cameras. But, if going for a more cine-look, and if I'm planning on going to black and white, I like to go to 24p often.

Brian Boyko · March 3rd, 2009, 01:05 AM

If:

1) You are going to shoot handheld at any time.
2) You are going to need a slow-motion shot at any time
3) You are going to catch fast action at any time
4) You need a very quick turnaround time in post

You should shoot in 60i. The higher frame rate means handheld shots look "better" and contain less blur. The extra frames that you get from interpolating the footage can make slow motion shots look smoother. The camera can capture images that occur in 1/60th of a second rather than 1/24th (it may be interlaced, but it's there.), and the 60i footage is pretty much standard and can be used in just about any NLE without worrying about compatability (24p on some cameras is the same but other cameras require 3:2 pulldown, or "inverse telecine")

As for how the finished product looks, here's what it comes down to:

60i footage looks like news, sports, soap operas.

30p footage looks like sitcoms, dramas.

24p footage looks like movies on HBO. (It doesn't look -exactly- like film, but it's close enough.)

60i footage can be converted to 30p easily, though you lose some resolution, through a process called interpolation, which blends the fields together with a "best guess."

60i footage can also be converted to 24p somewhat easily through the use of certain computer programs - I've not tried them myself but supposedly they work somewhat well.

30p cannot be converted to 24p easily.

Craig Irving · March 3rd, 2009, 03:37 PM

I'm actually quite impressed with how well 60i can be converted to mimic 24p nowadays. I've used Magic Bullet, and also Cineform to accomplish this task, and they both look really great.

I was able to get the 60i footage from an HDR-FX7 I used as a b-roll cam to look very similar to the HVR-V1U camera we shot @ 24p.

Todd Clark · March 3rd, 2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franklin Bencosme

Thanks Craig for your coments!!
In my case I do weddings,and use a lot of slow motion
during the recap.
What about the slow motion in 24p?

Franklin...

If you do weddings and a lot of slow motion you probably shouldn’t be using this camera anyways. Or any camera with cmos chips. The rolling shutter alone kills it for me!

Mitchell Lewis · March 3rd, 2009, 03:52 PM

For me it's all about the final delivery:

Broadcast = 60i
DVD = Progressive (30p or 24p....do you like more or less stutter?)
Web = Progressive (30p and then compress to 15p)

Franklin Bencosme · March 3rd, 2009, 08:01 PM

FLASH CMOS PROBLEM???

Hey folks get this sofware TWIXTOR an say GOOD BYE to flash

RE:Vision Effects, Inc.

Lukas Siewior · March 4th, 2009, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franklin Bencosme

FLASH CMOS PROBLEM???

Hey folks get this sofware TWIXTOR an say GOOD BYE to flash

RE:Vision Effects, Inc.

$330... not cheap for single plug-in. Is regular version or Pro needed?

Mitchell Lewis · March 4th, 2009, 08:30 AM

Yeah, I don't see where a program designed for motion effects (slowing down, speeding up footage) is going to help deal with flash bulbs going off while shooting with an EX1/EX3?

At first I thought someone wrote software to find all the "flashes" and fix them somehow. But this software doesn't seem to do anything like that.

Can you give us more details Franklin?

Franklin Bencosme · March 4th, 2009, 10:47 AM

Oops !! Forget !,this was made for Casablanca system(Bogart sofware) the S-PRO-4000 HD
system.
Twixtor analyses the brightness levels in single frames and replaces "flashed" frames with a correct frame. This function can of course also be used without applying slow motion.

I hope they make this for FCP,PREMIER,EDIUS ect....Honesty this is AMAZING!!!! we used every day when we whant to take off those FLASH from the video.

Yes,the render takes time but remember...QUALITY TAKES TIME!!!

Franklin....

Steve Montoto · March 4th, 2009, 12:50 PM

They do make Twixtor for Win and Mac. The current version is Twixtor 4.5.10.

Im going to give them a call and see what they say.

March 2nd, 2009, 06:14 PM	#1
Franklin Bencosme Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dominican Republic Posts: 135	24p or 60i (was 24p or 24i?) Any one opinions for this options? Any pro and con ?? Thanks...Franklin

March 3rd, 2009, 01:05 AM	#7
Brian Boyko Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 773	If: 1) You are going to shoot handheld at any time. 2) You are going to need a slow-motion shot at any time 3) You are going to catch fast action at any time 4) You need a very quick turnaround time in post You should shoot in 60i. The higher frame rate means handheld shots look "better" and contain less blur. The extra frames that you get from interpolating the footage can make slow motion shots look smoother. The camera can capture images that occur in 1/60th of a second rather than 1/24th (it may be interlaced, but it's there.), and the 60i footage is pretty much standard and can be used in just about any NLE without worrying about compatability (24p on some cameras is the same but other cameras require 3:2 pulldown, or "inverse telecine") As for how the finished product looks, here's what it comes down to: 60i footage looks like news, sports, soap operas. 30p footage looks like sitcoms, dramas. 24p footage looks like movies on HBO. (It doesn't look -exactly- like film, but it's close enough.) 60i footage can be converted to 30p easily, though you lose some resolution, through a process called interpolation, which blends the fields together with a "best guess." 60i footage can also be converted to 24p somewhat easily through the use of certain computer programs - I've not tried them myself but supposedly they work somewhat well. 30p cannot be converted to 24p easily. __________________ Equip: Panny GH1, Canon HG20, Juicedlink, AT897, Sennh. EW/GW100, Zoom H2, Vegas 8.1

March 3rd, 2009, 03:52 PM	#10
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	For me it's all about the final delivery: Broadcast = 60i DVD = Progressive (30p or 24p....do you like more or less stutter?) Web = Progressive (30p and then compress to 15p) __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

March 4th, 2009, 08:30 AM	#13
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Yeah, I don't see where a program designed for motion effects (slowing down, speeding up footage) is going to help deal with flash bulbs going off while shooting with an EX1/EX3? At first I thought someone wrote software to find all the "flashes" and fix them somehow. But this software doesn't seem to do anything like that. Can you give us more details Franklin? __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

March 2nd, 2009, 06:28 PM	#2
Craig Irving Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 539	Your question doesn't make any sense. Do you mean 24p or 60i? If you do, many threads would come up in a search.

March 2nd, 2009, 06:53 PM	#3
Franklin Bencosme Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dominican Republic Posts: 135	Hey sorry !!! yes my Question will be: Any opinions about the pro an cons, to shoot in 24 progresive or 60i??

March 2nd, 2009, 08:21 PM	#4
Craig Irving Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 539	Some people will give you a highly technical answer as to why shooting progressive is better, some people prefer it on aesthetic grounds. For me, it depends on the project. I don't make it a steady rule to shoot purely at 24p. There are many times where I prefer to shoot 60i. Although, 30p is not a mode I shoot in often. It's probably good for web, but shooting 60i doesn't restrict you from delivering a 30p file anyway. Really, there's uses for all 3 modes your camera offers. It's best just to go out there and shoot with each recording mode so you can get a sense of them and appreciate the nuances of each. Then you'll be properly able to decide which frame rate/mode you want to shoot a particular project in. Good luck!

March 2nd, 2009, 09:12 PM	#5
Franklin Bencosme Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dominican Republic Posts: 135	Thanks Craig for your coments!! In my case I do weddings,and use a lot of slow motion during the recap. What about the slow motion in 24p? Franklin...

March 2nd, 2009, 11:00 PM	#6
Eric Darling Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Savannah, GA Posts: 463	Progressive is good. In a world of ever-increasing convergence and progressive displays, why do you want to add interlacing artifacts? However, if your main interest is slow-motion, 24 frames is generally not considered high enough temporal resolution to pull it off well. 60p is really the way to go, and something that several current models across the spectrum offer (such as the EX1). But at least shoot in 30p in scenes where you know you're going slo-mo. The extra 6 frames each second will pay off. Personally, I shoot nearly everything in 30p (I'm in NTSC land). It enables easy cross-over to SD video, and works quite well on the web (as stated earlier). Plus, the expense in terms of media is obviously half of most 60p cameras. But, if going for a more cine-look, and if I'm planning on going to black and white, I like to go to 24p often.

March 3rd, 2009, 03:37 PM	#8
Craig Irving Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 539	I'm actually quite impressed with how well 60i can be converted to mimic 24p nowadays. I've used Magic Bullet, and also Cineform to accomplish this task, and they both look really great. I was able to get the 60i footage from an HDR-FX7 I used as a b-roll cam to look very similar to the HVR-V1U camera we shot @ 24p.

March 3rd, 2009, 08:01 PM	#11
Franklin Bencosme Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dominican Republic Posts: 135	FLASH CMOS PROBLEM??? Hey folks get this sofware TWIXTOR an say GOOD BYE to flash RE:Vision Effects, Inc.

March 4th, 2009, 10:47 AM	#14
Franklin Bencosme Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dominican Republic Posts: 135	Oops !! Forget !,this was made for Casablanca system(Bogart sofware) the S-PRO-4000 HD system. Twixtor analyses the brightness levels in single frames and replaces "flashed" frames with a correct frame. This function can of course also be used without applying slow motion. I hope they make this for FCP,PREMIER,EDIUS ect....Honesty this is AMAZING!!!! we used every day when we whant to take off those FLASH from the video. Yes,the render takes time but remember...QUALITY TAKES TIME!!! Franklin....

March 4th, 2009, 12:50 PM	#15
Steve Montoto Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 302	They do make Twixtor for Win and Mac. The current version is Twixtor 4.5.10. Im going to give them a call and see what they say.